Looking to buy an Orange ST 4 2009 frame with 2010 seatstays at the w'end from a guy in our MTB club. Basically looking for a lighter, shorter travel MTB for general XC duties, offroad sportives and trailquests mostly in the Chilterns and SE.

Looking for any reviews of the frame/bike from owners and those that have ridden the MTB, good and not so good.

Also, can someone pse explain the following that Benji penned in the last edition of ST magazine … I'm clearly not in the know.

"Why get an ST4 instead of an Orange Five? Isn't a flexy bike automatically a bad bike? The ST4 is very much an enthusiast's Choice. If you know, you know."

also why do they have that linkage,it looks strange (am no expert on suspension).

On the ST4 we run a 190mm custom tuned Fox RP23 shock activated by our ROCKR link to give 100mm of supple rear wheel travel. By running at a 2:1 low leverage ratio, we can accurately control the stroke of the shock better than ever before and dial in the best ride quality for a whole mix of terrain.

Apparently.

*rolls up sleeves*. There are a few ST4 reviews on here if you search from them, and the one on BikeRadar is from Seb Rogers. I know Seb from the photo course and he definitely tells it like he sees it. He really liked the bike.

Having demo'd it on the W2 trail at Afan back in October, I bought one because
– It was a whole load of fun to ride
– Travel felt "right" for most of the riding I do. Doesn't feel like a short travel FS on the downs, but climbs well, not the lightest frame either.
– Not scary flexy. I'm not good enough to know really, it's certainly wigglier than my HT! and my Pace 405 but it somehow doesn't detract from the fun
– Awesome in the singletrack. Just point it and go. It probably the most "Neutral" bike I've ridden. I don't mean that in a bad way either. It just seems really simple to ride quickly.
– Reminded me of a HT with suspension which probably also sounds like nonsense but I can't think of a better way of describing it.

Downsides?
– Drive side clearance for cranks tight. Some discussion of terrible chainsuck (MBR review) not sure if that was with the older flexier stays. I could see how you'd get the chain stuck between cranks and stay if you did have problems. My Hummer was the same, ended up switching from RF to Shimano and it was fine.

– Expensive, I guess for what it is. Made in the UK tho, so that's got to be worth something.

It's a bike you need to ride to make it fun. I've been lucky enough to own/test a lot of bikes and this is the one that you seem to get the most back from.

Only think I'd say about the Chilterns is – having lived there – if you do get chainsuck, it'd be pretty nasty in all that mud!

ah.

At 7lbs, it's not light. In fact heavier than a 5.

My 18 wasn't 7lbs… well certainly didn't feel it.

Had a blast on one at the Seb Rogers course. Felt just right. Not so much suspension you noticed it but just right. Felt super quick.

Will start saving the pennies.

Similarly, test rode, then ordered a frame. Nice long + low. Tried a Pace 405, which I liked allot, but medium felt too short for me (5' 11 + a bit") + large felt too big generally.
Alex I've just realized who you are… Hows the st4 riding now, any chainsucking nonsense?
'eck.

I assume you've already seen these? Just in case…

Dirt test – http://www.orangebikes.co.uk/reviews/pdf/OrangeST4TEST.pdf

Singletrack test – http://www.orangebikes.co.uk/reviews/pdf/ST4_Test_Singletrack_48.pdf

My mates ST4 Pro was exactly the same weight as a demo Five I had, which was a Pro with TALAS forks.

From talking I think, although shorter overall travel, the ST4 has much more sensitive rear suspension and kept the power down that bit better, but probably couldn't take some of the hits a Five could.

His is a late 2009, and he has had to learn to ride around the chain suck, which normally happens shifting into granny ring.