What do you think of them?

We love em in our house – we have one each.

had one loved it then got hit by car whilst on it! now i haven’t got one but wish i did.

overpriced? 🙂

A bit hefty for the travel, and yes, a bit pricey for the spec. Pretty though.

I love mine, it’s my 3rd.

Which P7 are you (all) riding? I put a post up earlier looking for help on spending £1200. Fancy the new Pure 7 (cheap) but being encouraged to buy a Crush…I don’t have the technical know how to really understand the differences.

No idea about the crush. My P7 is from a couple of years ago, I think the main differences are that the P7 pure doesnt have slidy dropouts so singespeeding and alfine use is a little more of a faff. The P7 pure is lighter I think too. So, if you want gears and want a P7 then go for the pure. Although, as suggested, you might want to look at 2nd hand, plenty of good stuff around I think.

Maybe look at one of the ragley frames, similar sort of thing, ie long travel hardtail, a lot cheaper. Never ridden one.

Where in Andalucia you going?

My do-it-all bike, my favourite bike. Points of comparison (ie. my previously owned recent hardtails): Soul, 456, Prince Albert, Inbred, the one i can’t remember, E8, Kaboom, Armadillo. (Plus some FS but they were too dull to recall). Better for me than all of them.

Climbs better than you think, is more agile than you’d imagine – in other words, nicely balanced – and also hard as nails. Love it.

Have 2010 with vanillas and running 1×9.
Built as winter bike but use most of the time.

Had mine for 2 years and still love it. Recently bought a Santa Cruz Blur LT2 (4x list price of the p7) but you still can’t keep me off the P7.

Mackem – I’ll actually be living in Gibraltar but from what I can establish, my nearest riding will be around the Alcornocales Park area in Spain. Can’t believe my luck!! 😀

Overweight and overpriced… Ultimately not a very well designed frame which is why it needs expensive tubes but still weighs more than a stronger On One gaspipe number. But still rides very nicely for all that. The full builds are a good shout, frame alone pricing is a joke tbh. But people do pay it so fair play to Orange.

My P7 is about 10 years old , I’m the 2nd owner. It’s first daddy didn’t look after it properly but it’s honestly my most favourite mtb I’ve ever owned , it usually gets chosen before the FS bike.

I’ve been looking at getting a frame next month, liking the Soul, 456, Bfe, & P7.
Edging toward the P7.
As I’m 6’5 the Orange is the only 21″ that i think i’ll need anyway.
The guys at Cotic said i’m too big for a Soul or Bfe. 😥

I’d go for the R8 to be honest, much better bike and more than capable for most British trails, especially against the P7.

It’s a shame 2wheels1guy as the Soul is a much better frame.

I’ve got a 2009 P7. Bought it frame only in a sale, with the intention of running it as a winter hack, but seen far more use than that. Whenever my other rides need fettling, the P7 is just always good to go. Had the option of a Cotic Soul but, tho the Soul was lighter, I prefered the size & geo. of the P7 (not much in it tho TBH). Had great fun blatting around Glentress etc., but also been surprised how well it performs on local Dark Peak trails – much better than some of the local brand snobs would have you believe. Having said this, I gather the latest generation have been beefed up to meet the new EC(?) testing requirements, so are a fair bit heavier. If your heart’s set on a P7, you might be best to look for a second hand one. HTH.

I broke a 07? P7. Also used to have an 05. I loved the 05, it was my first ‘proper’ HT that I built myself. The newer 07 was at best average. Didn’t climb very well, but was still very difficult to manual/hop. No doubt other years would handle differently though. Orange seem to change the geometry of some of there frames on a yearly basis!

Believe it or not I am an orange fan (I still have a orange FS), but I can’t see myself ever buying a P7 again. The Dialled PA that replaced the 07 is a much better frame.

i have the 2010 frame with ’09 running gear ’10 forks and brakes. superb bike. the frame is the beefed up one to pass the new regs. it runs between 28.5 and 30lbs depending on tyres and pedals and is a 19″. i usually ride the mendips and quantocks and it loves the descents and will lose its weight on the climbs, i’m running a 1×9 with a mrp chain device and a stinger to stop chain slap.

Which P7 are you (all) riding? I put a post up earlier looking for help on spending £1200. Fancy the new Pure 7 (cheap) but being encouraged to buy a Crush…I don’t have the technical know how to really understand the differences

get the crush, nearly the same spec but without the hope hubs and alot cheaper. it is alu instead of steel though.

I had the 2010 P7 rode it far more than my 5 loved it to pieces, had to sell it when I lost my job, sad day, rides great as said a little on the heavy side, only noticed on really long climbs the rest of the time it was awesome, I had a 17″ in white with 140mm Revs 20mm maxle…31lb
I would 100% have another one…probably my most fav bike. 😀

the Soul is a much better frame.

I disagree. The P7 is a much better frame for me, perhaps the Soul is a better frame for you but, having owned both I would choose the P7 every time.

The Dialled PA that replaced the 07 is a much better frame.

Again, I’d disagree. I found the PA okay but would choose the P7 over it anytime. Up, down, round and round, the P7 is a better frame for me.

The OP should test all his top five choices and find what suits his riding best.

The p7 is a pig to pick up over gates even in 15″ size.

They do look nice though if that makes up for the weight of them, only you can judge.

Not too sure on geo of the p7 but should ride good seing as it’s uk deigned/made.

Im with Heathenwoods, you reallyhave to ride one to appreciate it!

HeathenWoods – Member

“I disagree. The P7 is a much better frame for me, perhaps the Soul is a better frame for you but, having owned both I would choose the P7 every time.”

Personal taste plays a major part of course but objectively, the Soul has the P7 beat- it’s lighter, just as strong, and only costs £20 more despite being 853 over the cheaper 631 tubes. Even if you prefer the handling you still have to admit it’s not good value in comparison, it’s at least 50% overpriced compared to the competition

i have a 2010 P7 19in it is a fantastic ride, it is a little heavy but never seem to notice it at all, climbs and descends brilliantly and is really confidence inspiring, it has a solid feeling in and out of corners at speed and accelerates like a much lighter bike. As others have said it is not the cheapest but it is certainly worth the money and is made in Britain too, just feels right all the time.

You seem to be confusing cheaper and better. Objectively a 456 has everything beaten in those terms!

Pricing is the P7’s weak point! Some may argue weight aswell but for most riders/owners it doesnt seem a problem!

The geometry & ride quality of the P7 really is spot on!

I dont own one btw!

richen987:

“made in Britain too”

No it isn’t, the hardtails are all taiwanese.

Northwind – On paper the Soul does have the P7 beat. On the ground though it’s a different matter. I’ve tried to replace a P7 many times, but there’s always something about all the others that has made the P7 the best choice for me.

As above, try as many as you can then buy.

northwind ….. the hardtails are all taiwanese.

Is the miii made in Taiwan ?

<edit> I loved my P7 cracking all round bike <\edit>

Northwind – Member

HeathenWoods – Member

“I disagree. The P7 is a much better frame for me, perhaps the Soul is a better frame for you but, having owned both I would choose the P7 every time.”

Personal taste plays a major part of course but objectively, the Soul has the P7 beat- it’s lighter, just as strong, and only costs £20 more despite being 853 over the cheaper 631 tubes. Even if you prefer the handling you still have to admit it’s not good value in comparison, it’s at least 50% overpriced compared to the competition

+1

Even if you prefer the handling you still have to admit it’s not good value in comparison, it’s at least 50% overpriced compared to the competition

I do prefer the handling. That’s what it’s all about and therefore worth the premium. I bet my neighbour could design a bike with 853 tubing*, 953 even, but i wouldn’t want to ride it. Whatever suits your riding best is what you should be riding regardless of material, amount of suspension or the name on the downtube.

*Not saying that any current UK 853 tubed bike is ‘like that’, just an example in extremis.

j.me- you’ve got me there, I’d never heard of the miii- don’t know but as it’s a monocoque it’s probably a halifax one. Nice catch. All the other hardtails are taiwanese though, the P7 certainly is.

“ScottChegg – Member

Northwind – On paper the Soul does have the P7 beat. On the ground though it’s a different matter.”

Because its performance suits you- you’re looking for different things from a frame. Which is why objectively it’s better but subjectively that might not matter to you.

HeathenWoods – Member

“I do prefer the handling. That’s what it’s all about and therefore worth the premium.”

Geometry does not cost money. This is exactly what I’m getting at, not sure why it’s so hard to follow- the P7 might well be the right bike for you and that’s great but it doesn’t mean the frame’s objectively worth the price premium.

I’d pay more than the odds for the right bike if need be but I’d still know I was paying over the odds, I wouldn’t try and pretend it’s good value- it’s still bad value but worth it to you.

I’m not putting the frame itself down, the one I rode- 2009 model I think- was lovely, and I’d have been pleased to own one. Judged just on its performance it’s decent despite the weight, but judged on value it falls down.

Which is why objectively it’s better

How do you objectively compare bike frames? It’s all subjective.

Geometry does not cost money.

So the design is done by little elves at night whilst the bikemaker and his wife are sleeping?

Yes, of course it is. Silly me.

HeathenWoods – Member

“So the design is done by little elves at night whilst the bikemaker and his wife are sleeping?

Yes, of course it is. Silly me.”

Dear me. Differences in geometry in the frame cost nothing- if the frame has a different head angle or similiar then the end cost will be essentially the same. Having slightly longer tubes or different butting changes costs of course but not when you’re comparing like with like. If you made a P7 the exact shape as a Soul the unit cost would be the same, or near as makes no odds.

As for designing the frame itself, do you think the Soul (or 456, or Genesis Altitude, or Dialled PA) were cheaper to design? Orange are the only company that pays designers, builds prototypes, goes through testing? Obviously not.

Ironic really that the Soul’s engineering is a lot more sophisticated, since Cotic designed their way round the CEN problem, unlike Orange who just threw metal at it, increasing weight and price.

pypdjl – Member

Which is why objectively it’s better

“How do you objectively compare bike frames? It’s all subjective.”

Not really. Weight, strength, price, tubesets, finish are all objective. Handling and feel are subjective as are looks and arguably heritage.

Differences in geometry in the frame cost nothing

But is worth so much more than the difference in cost between the tubes.

I’m sorry to be blunt but there is no ‘objective’ measure of a bike’s worth just as there is no objective ‘rider’. Choosing, at random, to use the material a frame’s made of is an insufficient measure, hence my mention of design.

As for designing the frame itself, do you think the Soul (or 456, or Genesis Altitude, or Dialled PA) were cheaper to design? Orange are the only company that pays designers, builds prototypes, goes through testing? Obviously not.

I didn’t say they were cheaper but that Orange had designed a better bike for riders like me. Their design is better for me therefore I value the design costs of the bike over and above materials costs. The ‘superior’ steel that made the Soul was of less importance to me as I didn’t enjoy the feel of the ride. For me, at least, the better design of the P7 is worth the extra cost.

As in most instances, subjectivity is where it’s at when it comes to choosing the best frame.