Orange 5 29er

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  • Orange 5 29er
  • bwaarp
    Member

    I very much doubt the winner will be on 26″.

    Why, cuz it rolls better?

    Bahahahahahaaaaaaaa.

    Come 2015, I’m going to revisit this thread and laud the fact that no one will have won a DH worlds on a 29er over you guys. Big time.

    Fox say they’re going to production with the 650B- no different.

    I see it’s also a 180mm fork, wonder how much a 29er Fox 40 would lose in travel.

    I have less against 650b though, they may possibly take off….not 29 for DH though. No way, not ever, not in a bazzilion years. The UCI fashion police will ban them like they did with skin suits for starters.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Come 2015, I’m going to revisit this thread and laud it big time over all of you.we should all be just getting on with riding bikes

    JCL
    Member

    Why, cuz it rolls better?

    Bahahahahahaaaaaaaa.

    In short yes. Well and they have more cornering grip with the same section tyre as a 26″. Do you know where Worlds is this year? A 180mm 29″ would own a 220mm 26″ on that course.

    I doubt a fork manufacturer would entertain the one off lowers but if they did I bet SC would build a rear triangle.

    Premier Icon Northwind
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    bwaarp – Member

    I see it’s also a 180mm fork, wonder how much a 29er Fox 40 would lose in travel.

    You’d expect about another inch I suppose. Pop quiz- according to Aaron Gwin, how many times did he use the full travel of his forks in race runs last year?

    bwaarp – Member

    Come 2015, I’m going to revisit this thread and laud the fact that no one will have won a DH worlds on a 29er over you guys.

    Nobody’s said that it’s going to happen in this thread, but by all means have a go 😉

    (pop quiz answer- 0)

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
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    Northwind stop hauling this one from the dead 🙂

    Gwinn sets up super stiff so I’d expect once per race.

    As to the rest of it who cares did somebody say there would be a filing cabinet with bigger drawers coming out?

    Nobody’s said that it’s going to happen in this thread, but by all means have a go

    I’d like to see it happen, even only if its to see pinkbike explode.

    Premier Icon ratherbeintobago
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    Come 2015, I’m going to revisit this thread and laud the fact that no one will have won a DH worlds on a 29er over you guys. Big time.

    You’re not, because threads lock after a year and you can’t reopen them.

    /pedantry

    Andy

    bwaarp
    Member

    In short yes. Well and they have more cornering grip with the same section tyre as a 26″. Do you know where Worlds is this year? A 180mm 29″ would own a 220mm 26″ on that course.

    In short, no….see all the factors I’ve listed to see it’s not a clear cut case.

    Add drag from the larger wheel cross section in as well.

    bwaarp
    Member

    Nope don’t see how the 2013 Champs track is conducive to 29ers.

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui5_0IcSZA0[/video]

    The top end is tight steep and very technical in places with some pretty hairy drops. This requires a bike that can be easily handled in the air, a bike that can change direction quickly and a bike that can accelerate quickly.

    The bottom section is fast and open…..it would be conducive to 29ers except that there’s hardly any rock gardens in it. So I’d place a guess that the drag from the wheels would negate any additional roll over and grip :mrgreen:

    bwaarp
    Member

    You’d expect about another inch I suppose. Pop quiz- according to Aaron Gwin, how many times did he use the full travel of his forks in race runs last year?

    Physics lesson, even if he only used the last inch of his travel a couple of times you are still increasing how quickly the spring rate rises by going to 180mm.

    wl
    Member

    If it bothers you that much, simply don’t buy one. If 29ers are your thing though, this one is bound to be mint, cheap cranks or not.

    Premier Icon Northwind
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    bwaarp – Member

    Physics lesson, even if he only used the last inch of his travel a couple of times you are still increasing how quickly the spring rate rises by going to 180mm.

    His answer is that he used the full travel precisely no times. And that’s not as unique as people think- Leov and Fairclough both run theirs harder apparently, and I can’t think of a single pro saying anything other than harder is better, lately. Though, that’s one thing that possibly won’t transfer back to knobbers as well, we tend to like ours softer.

    Physics lesson- nah, wrong assumption, less travel doesn’t have to mean shorter spring. If they decide the current spring behaviour is desirable, it’d be very simple to use the exact same spring rate and length but have less travel, and just have more “unused” spring. The fork is the same length, remember.

    bwaarp
    Member

    Fair point.

    Also, I don’t get why in the case of 650b we can’t just develop massively wider rims (eg 1800 gram per pair 40mm wide wheels like the Syntace ones) and run much taller tyres.

    For the the average rider this would be a much better way of going about things…they do this in enduro motocross at the back end….they move down a rim size but keep the overall diameter of rim+tyre the same….supposedly helps with rider fatigue over long rides.

    DH riders do a 3-10 min time run – all mountain riders are out all day….a bit more bounce is always nice for that situation.

    JCL
    Member

    The bottom section is fast and open…..it would be conducive to 29ers except that there’s hardly any rock gardens in it. So I’d place a guess that the drag from the wheels would negate any additional roll over and grip

    I guess you missed the bit in the middle where they were pedalling for a minute….

    Drag of the wheels? What you on about? The frictional losses easily overcome the extra wheel weight. The extra stability from the BB drop means they could pedal to the lip of those tables. The bike would be way more stable than a 26″ with 30mm more travel.

    It’ll never happen because what’s the point in winning on a bike that a company doesn’t manufacture. No doubt about it though, a DH 29″ would absolutely monster that track with a guy like Minnaar on it.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    I remember when the Worlds was at Camberra and the world (internet) said shorter lighter air sprung bikes would win etc. Some bloke from yorkshire took it out on his normal 10″ coil sprung thing….

    Which ever way I’m sure everyone can have a congratulatory told you so and what if.

    The future is unknown so unless you have crystal balls you don’t know 🙂

    bwaarp
    Member

    Drag of the wheels

    Wind resistance, I still don’t buy 29ers being any good for downhill. How come intense ditched the 29 inch version of the 951 after testing it and went to 650b instead?

    Pedaling right to the lip of jumps? Have you ever even raced DH before? You don’t pedal right to the lip of jumps because it throws you off line even with a BB a bit more below the axles of the wheel that isn’t going to change….believe me I’ve tried some bikes with really slammed bottom brackets. Besides that with many jumps you have to lay off the speed a bit or squash them so you don’t overcook the jump.

    What are you on about….no point in winning on bikes they don’t manufacture? Yes there is, for development purposes and brand image. Teams start using new bikes way before the general public get their hands on them so that they can test and develop their products. As I said earlier, companies would push 29ers in DH if they thought it would give them a winning advantage…..people would then buy them.

    It’s really obvious how little you know about the DH race scene man. I’m guessing your an XC jockey who bought into the 29 hype.

    bwaarp
    Member

    Yes, yes…..29ers are definitely going to relegate 26ers to history.

    Brian Lopes Wins Inaugural World Cup XC Eliminator

    Won on a 26er.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/29er-bikes-inferior-world-cup-circuit-26ers-dominate-both-mens-womens-races-782893.html

    29ers get owned where acceleration is important

    http://reviews.mtbr.com/26er-or-29er-which-was-faster-at-the-24-hours-in-the-old-pueblo?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

    29ers get owned in an endurance race.

    http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/nino-schurter-wins-world-cup-1-on-650b-wheels-33467/

    650b stomps on 29ers.

    Basically in anything that requires lots of speed changes or elevation changes….. 29ers get destroyed.

    The UK downhill scene requires good handling in tight low speed corners and acceleration under pedaling.

    Both something which it seems 29ers suck balls for.

    Toasty
    Member

    For XC I wouldn’t be surprised if they did.

    650b stomps on 29ers.

    Nino Schurter wins everything, he’s sponsored by Scott, Scott are pushing 650b. Quick, new fad out, buy again!

    thedon
    Member

    Yes, yes…..29ers are definitely going to relegate 26ers to history.

    Brian Lopes Wins Inaugural World Cup XC Eliminator

    Won on a 26er.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/29er-bikes-inferior-world-cup-circuit-26ers-dominate-both-mens-womens-races-782893.html

    29ers get owned where acceleration is important

    http://reviews.mtbr.com/26er-or-29er-which-was-faster-at-the-24-hours-in-the-old-pueblo?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

    29ers get owned in an endurance race.

    http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/nino-schurter-wins-world-cup-1-on-650b-wheels-33467/

    650b stomps on 29ers.

    Basically in anything that requires lots of speed changes or elevation changes….. 29ers get destroyed.

    The UK downhill scene requires good handling in tight low speed corners and acceleration under pedaling.

    Both something which it seems 29ers suck balls for.

    Obviously it was the bikes that won the races and nothing to do with the people riding them……

    pussywillow
    Member

    The 26″ version looked so much better! And rides so much better too! I can see sales falling! 😐

    Premier Icon roverpig
    Subscriber

    Have you ridden the 29er version then? I’ve yet to read anything negative about it from anybody who has actually ridden it.

    Also, why would sales fall? They are not discontinuing the 26″ Five. This is just another option for those who fancy it. Personally I doubt it would be for me. If you are going to make a 29er based on Orange’s single pivot platform then I think it makes more sense to shorten the travel and steepen the angles a bit (as they did with the Gyro), rather than keeping the angles and travel the same and letting the chainstays and wheelbase grow, as they’ve done with this Five29. But credit to Orange for giving consumers the choice and I’ll reserve judgement at least until we get a few more reports from the wild.

    By the way, I think that picture is a pre-production model as it has the cables going along the top of the swingarm rather than through it.

    Premier Icon coolhandluke
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    I bet it takes another two filing cabinet draws to make a five 29er over the 26″ cousin.

    Premier Icon Northwind
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    See, I think it looks better than most 29ers, even with the big tyres exaggerating things. Put it beside a carbon Tallboy and let’s see who makes filing cabinet jokes. my eye’s drawn to the tail of the swingarm and the cassette though, something very ugly happening there.

    Premier Icon roverpig
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    I think it looks great, although I’ve already admitted to liking the looks of a Five, so my credibility is pretty much shot anyway. I can’t believe that a bike with 29er wheels, slack angles, relatively long chainstays and a relatively long wheelbase is really going to be for me. Sounds more like a downhill bike for hooligans. Still tempted though 🙂

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
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    ah pussywillow is back, bwaarp must be on holiday…. 😉

    In the end it’s still a 5, plenty of other bikes out there

    Premier Icon ads678
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    Roverpig – I think the five29 has both internal and on top of the swing routing, just in case you’re lazy!! I’ve had my five for about 2 years and still haven’t routed the brake hose through the swing arm!!

    I think it looks great, although double and bash would be better.

    Premier Icon roverpig
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    I think that was just the prototype and they’ve gone back to “through the swingarm only” for the production models. But I’ve not seen one in the flesh, so could be wrong.

    Agree that a triple looks a bit out of place on a bike like this though.

    Premier Icon ratherbeintobago
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    How come intense ditched the 29 inch version of the 951 after testing it and went to 650b instead?

    Unless you’ve got inside info, we won’t know whether they’ve gone for 29″ or 27″ wheels until April/Sea Otter

    Andy

    Premier Icon ads678
    Subscriber

    Ah, I was just taking it from the first look photos stw had a while back so you might be right.

    Looks nice, but they should have taken a pic of a bigger frame.

    Same reason as why they don’t put pics of XL 26er’s in catalogues.

    bwaarp
    Member

    Unless you’ve got inside info, we won’t know whether they’ve gone for 29″ or 27″ wheels

    Those photos are from 2009.

    Intense are supplying 650b downhill bikes for the worlds.

    Premier Icon ratherbeintobago
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    Intense are supplying 650b downhill bikes for the worlds

    Link?

    Premier Icon roverpig
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    Well it’s been out for a few weeks now, but not a single online review as far as I can tell. Still, I guess you can’t compare Oranges and Apples 🙂

    catvet
    Member

    Dirt this months has a review of the Orange FS29 er

    Premier Icon Shandy
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    Whats the verdict?

    Premier Icon roverpig
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    I guess the fact that the first review is going to appear in Dirt tells us something about the intended market.

    Premier Icon Northwind
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    I nearly restarted this thread the other day but was too scared 🙂 So I testrode one of these Five 29ers on sunday.

    TL;DR version- it’s surprising, very good at some things, bit mediocre at others, some big fails.

    First observation is a very Orangey one- it’s a £3000 bike with plastic OEM-spec tyres on. They’re absolutely awful, you’d not tolerate it on a £300 bike. Handicapped the ride very badly. Bit of a joke.

    That aside- you know what you think a Five 29er should be like? Ie, like a Five, but smoother over rocks and such, faster up hills but less agile, and less good in the air? Turns out, it’s the other way round.

    I am crap at jumping, it was brilliant- found extra air everywhere, and felt so happy while it was doing it. It popped but without feeling bouncy, and was easy to move about once up. Better’n a Five, or most 5 inch bikes.

    Carrying speed- might have been the tyres. It wasn’t that much better through lumps than a Five, though GT isn’t really the place to test that, I’d like to run it down antur black or fort bill. As long as you keep the speed steady, it was fine, but it’s a pig to accelerate.

    Flex- It wouldn’t bother me in iteself, but the 34’s irrelevant if you bolt it to such a flexy wheelset, daft. And at the back, the 2.2 is fairly tight and I could push it into the frame without significant effort. (part swingarm flex, part wheel) So you’re limited on tyre choice, and even with a relatively skinny one it’s going to buzz if you ride it hard. Not the end of the world but not really desirable. It has the appetite to ride anything so I’d like to be able to put fat tyres in it.

    Build- it was all decent enough kit that you’d be happy with on a £1500 bike. The forks were fab. The shock had about a million adjustment clicks and only the last couple did anything, the hubs were cheap-ish Formula same as you find in a £600 Boardman not Hope as I’d assumed. And those tyres! Oh, but it looked brilliant in JPS.

    I’d like another go, on not-crap tyres, somewhere harder. I would like it more, I don’t think I’d like it enough. I’d never buy this build at this price, it’s just daft. Most of all, it didn’t feel 29erish, not in a good way, nor in a bad. I’d have a normal Five over it. It is not the messiah.

    Premier Icon roverpig
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    Interesting comments. Thanks.

    I’ve got some sympathy with Orange on the tyres. If margins are tight then there is no point in specifying expensive tyres that the buyer will probably just swap for their favourite brand anyway and supplying a test bike that has exactly the same spec as the one you would buy is at least honest. But it’s still frustrating and leaves you wondering how much of what you are feeling is the bike and how much is down to things like tyres, wheels etc that you’d probably change anyway.

    Premier Icon Paceman
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    I’ve got some sympathy with Orange on the tyres. If margins are tight then there is no point in specifying expensive tyres that the buyer will probably just swap for their favourite brand anyway and supplying a test bike that has exactly the same spec as the one you would buy is at least honest. But it’s still frustrating and leaves you wondering how much of what you are feeling is the bike and how much is down to things like tyres, wheels etc that you’d probably change anyway.

    I disagree. Tyres do make a big difference on how a bike feels as you say; so why scrimp on what amounts to a maximum of £20 on the build cost by speccing cheap OEM tyres.

    It also sounds like the wheels aren’t up to scratch at that price which is really important on a 29er.

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