Optimisting eMTB power mode settings

What should I be doing? It’s my first one and it feels fine on defaults, but I can’t be having settings and not optimising them! Only a few rides in and this is the last thing I left to experiment with.

I know what they all do. But unlike with suspension I don’t really know what better/worse or too much/little feels like. Or good trail scenarios to try different settings on while paying attention to the effect of each setting.

The bike is a lightweight with TQ motor, but this question probably isn’t specific to that although some things might be different for light vs. full power bikes.

Max power is 30-300W, defaults are eco 99W, mid 180W, high 300W. I’ve been mostly been using the lowest mode I can while maintaining a good cadence, unless I’m squeezing in a short ride of an hour or two.

Assist is 25-200%, defaults are eco 86%, mid 112%, high 156%. The feeling is fine throughout the input power range. I did notice in high when feeling lazy it was this that was limiting the power to lower than 300W because I was putting in a bit less than the requisite 192W.

Pedal response is from slow to fast, default is just under halfway on all modes. I was thinking bumping it up at least in high for more power setting off from stationery on chunky climbs.

Cutoff speed is 5-25km/h, default is max in all modes. I was thinking of lowering in eco as on long flat-ish bits I’d rather save battery for the climbs than go faster, which I currently do by turning assist off manually by long pressing the bar remote.

Just experiment and set to whatever give you your preferred balance of speed versus range.

For what it’s worth (I have the same motor) I have the following

Eco :max power 150w, assist 60%

Mid: max power 225w, assist 110%

Max :max power 300w,assist 165%

I have a different motor and have tweaked the settings but always end up back with the defaults. What I did notice though is that cycling along a flat route  at 13- 15mph with the motor on felt no different to with the motor off  –  it just used a load of battery unnecessarily so now I switch the assist off completely on the flat. Mines a light (for an e-bike) gravel bike though.

+1 for have a tinker and end up back at defaults.  I’m on an EP8RS in a rise and figured i’d give myself a bit more power. It wasn’t really useful power compared to what i’d got used to, the default settings had 3 useful modes that just felt right

On my Rise I’ve never touched the defaults, I do switch between Profile 1 & 2 though depending on the ride.

In what way do you wish to optimise it? Max range from the battery?Minimum effort from you?

Another Rise, another EP8rs.

The option in the eTube app are all based on the nM in each setting. I don’t know how to translate those into power W or assistance %.

I have Eco set to minimum 20nM and trail set to 32nM (I think). Boost is default 65.

If I could go lower on Eco, I would but 20nm is the lowest.

The trail setting was I think, 45 standard. I just kept dialling back the power until it felt like I was in a happy place with effort vs assistance. Having the different modes set higher than they are felt too much E and not enough MTB.

I started tinkering because I wanted to try and get as much life out of the battery as I could without killing myself in the process.

It’s worked pretty well. When I fist got it I’d ride predominantly in Trail (45nm) and would pretty much empty the battery in 30 miles/3500′ whereas now, rising mostly in Eco and using Trail ononger or steeper climbs, I’ll do the same distance and elevation but still have say 40% of the battery left over at the end.

I think what Shimano refer to as Assistance Characteristic is almost more influential on the ride feel than the max power in each mode. It’s defining how hard you have to work to achieve the assistance. If I dial that right down in boost, I get nowhere near full power.

Then there’s ‘Assist Start’ which I’m guessing is the same as your ‘Pedal Response’. Having this at a high number can make the bike feel like it’s leaving without you if you’re starting off on a steep hill.

If you’ve got something similar to ‘Assist Character’, then I’d play with that first to get the feel you want from the motor. Then once your happy with how it feels, decide how much power you want in want in each mode and lastly, tune the pedal response.

I think if you go changing multiple things at once, it’ll get confusing and you’ll never really be sure what you’ve actually changed.

Apparently cadence is also critical. 75rpm is supposed to be the magic number for maximising battery life and motor efficiency. I have no evidence for this but was told by someone who hires out ebikes for a living so would hope they know what they are talking about..

I’ve a Spesh SL and TBH don’t use the Eco/Trail/Turbo option but use Micro Tune instead, which means peak power & torque are linked.

So at 30% it means I’ve 30/30 for power/torque – which means I’m getting 30% of 240W & 35Nm so 72W & 10.5Nm.

The beauty of this is that if I need a bit more ‘grunt’ I just press the + button until I’ve enough, and the same when I need less.

When I first got it I tried playing with the various maps/options etc, but Micro Tune is just so much more intuitive AND suits my riding/fitness.

Cadence-wise, +75 is recommended and does seem to enhance range.

Is there an equivalent option on the TQ?

Is there an equivalent option on the TQ?

No, it would be good if there was though.

In what way do you wish to optimise it? Max range from the battery?Minimum effort from you?

Good post, thanks. Not sure really, probably preserving battery for those climbs that I’d otherwise have to push is the main objective.

I think if you go changing multiple things at once, it’ll get confusing and you’ll never really be sure what you’ve actually changed.

Yep, same as suspension or anything really.

I’ve a Spesh SL and TBH don’t use the Eco/Trail/Turbo option but use Micro Tune instead, which means peak power & torque are linked.

…

Is there an equivalent option on the TQ?

It’s a really nice feature, I tried it on demo. Means you can have it just right for the gradient, how hot it is, how tired you are etc. But no equivalent on TQ unfortunately.

@intheborders

Ah – that’s what Shimano are copying with their fine tune mode.  You set the max and min assist character and the max and min torque and it gives you a load of modes between those limits

probably preserving battery for those climbs that I’d otherwise have to push is the main objective.

That’s pretty much what I use Boost for. A seemingly impossible climb that makes me think I’ll be walking before I’ve even tried.

Whether that’s because it’s stupid steep or because I’m knackered doesn’t matter, I know that having max power from minimum effort will be handy at some point.

Generally, my mid power setting is enough to get me up most things but the way I’ve set it means I know I’ll need to put in a certain amount of effort to get up it.

It’s no different really from having to select the right gear on a normal bike before you try and haul up a climb. It’s just the bike is helping you out and you get to choose how much help it gives.

If you’re looking to optimise the range, either knock the power down to minimum and gradually increase it until your effort vs assistance feels balanced or, leave it where it is and dial it back until it feels like too much work to keep your pace.

I’d go for option A personally. Starting with low power, you notice (and appreciate) the extra as you increase it. Starting high and dialling down always makes it feel like hard work because you miss the extra assistance once you remove it (to me, anyway).

 Yep, same as suspension or anything really.

Exactly this. Suspension, you’d start with your spring rate, then set the rebound before tweaking compression damping to suit what you’re riding. That’s why I reckon starting out with setting the feel from the motor is the best start, then setting the ultimate power in each mode before fiddling with the start up response.

I was looking at some data from my Garmin which shows that running in boost, I almost never achieve max power.

Riding in Boost feels very different to Trail. It’s definitely ‘easier’ but that must be down to the ‘characteristic’ setting because the recorded data shows I’m barely getting more torque from the motor in Boost than I do from Trail.

If I were to increase the assist character in boost (or any of the modes), I’d be getting more torque (or more easily accessing the torque that’s available) but this would come at the expense of less range.

It all a bit of trial and error.

@B33k3a4

Which version of eTube is that? And is it on the new model Rise?

I’ve seem pics of that exact screen and hoped I’d get the features with the latest version of eTube and whatever firmware update was available but I’ve still got the same options a standard.

I have the TQ motor & wouldn’t recommend upping the pedal response too much in boost mode.

I did exactly that for the same reason you stated, but found I kept spinning out the rear wheel when starting on steep climbs, due to too much power too quickly – will obviously depend on your power setting though.

I ended up with high pedal responce in Trail mode – really useful for getting more speed on those really short trail sections when you can only get a couple of pedal strokes in before the next feature / corner.

Ah – that’s what Shimano are copying with their fine tune mode.  You set the max and min assist character and the max and min torque and it gives you a load of modes between those limits

My experience with Specialized Mission Control and the aftermarket Blevo app on the same bike is basically that I set it somewhere in the ballpark of what works for me – low assist on eco, a bit lower than whatever is standard on trail, full on with boost – and then promptly forget all about it and just ride my bike. People are pretty adaptable, so unless you’re well out or have a particular aim in mind, chances are it will work okay and any gain from endless twiddling will be marginal.

You’ll save more battery by slowing down on climbs and fitting a fast-rolling rear tyre than by endless tweaking of levels unless you do something really stupid.

This reminds me a bit of a 1990s Suzuki GSX1100 that had about a gazillion clicks on the suspension dampers, like close to three figures. One of the bike mags wrote an in-depth article where they micro-adjusted the hell out of it all and claimed to be able to feel tiny differences. Suzuki eventually admitted that basically only about three clicks of the adjusters actually did anything significant at all. The real problem was that the base tune was slightly out, so whatever you did to the bike, it always felt slightly wrong, which was my experience.

Anyway, the infinitely ‘adjustable’ suspension was mostly a gimmick so buyers felt they had super high tech bouncers and might be able to optimise the settings to their brilliant riding. In reality, if the bloody suspension had been in the ball-park to start with, no-one would have cared how many clicks of rear rebound there were. I suspect a lot of e-mtb ‘fine tuning’ is similar. It’d be a lot less confusing if they simply worked welll as supplied and any app-based adjustments were simpler eg: soft / medium / immediate pedal response etc.

Blevo, which is/was a Spesh aftermarket tuning app, came with pre-settings for various functions – economy, race, fast or whatever – which seems like a better call than giving folk loads of adjustments, which the app also did, half of which they don’t really understand anyway.

@bens

We’ve got a 21 and 25 Rise – the new screens are only on the 25 (I’d guess only on the 801 motor)

@badlywireddog

I’m with you. Supply the bike set up to work well although I think a little bit of customisation can be useful.  K and I were both on Rises she’s smaller and less powerful that I am – we upped her eco and trail torque a bit which balances us out more in both power and battery usage.

On the new Rise she’s finding the full boost a bit much.  I’m wondering whether a 4th setting might be useful between trail and ‘given me everything you’ve got straight away’ boost. It’s a bit of a fatf switching from profile 1 to profile 2 if you don’t have the display.  The 4 modes would give the range of both Rs and RS+ effectively.

Assist is 25-200%, defaults are eco 86%, mid 112%, high 156%. The feeling is fine throughout the input power range. I did notice in high when feeling lazy it was this that was limiting the power to lower than 300W because I was putting in a bit less than the requisite 192W.

think this is the right pathway of analysis.

What power can you do in different situations – have you ever ridden with a powermeter/gym wattbike etc to know what your figures are?

1)

what power do you put out at:

-spinning comfortably but gently

-hard work but long term maintainable (probably ~FTP)

-30 seconds / 1 minute max you would want to do semi repeatably.

2)

Then, I guess work out the 3 “speeds” or total (rider + bike) power you want to ride at for your prefered style of riding:

-fire road cruise

-sustanined climb

-tech climb or sprint

3)

Then, see how long your battery lasts doing this. If not acceptable, revisit your answers to 2.

The manufacturer has to come up with settings that work for a rider that could be 50kg or 150kg, and a rider power that ranges from someone trying to keep their exertion down, to budding amatuer XC racer.

Of course, this all relies on you acting in one of these 3 “modes” for most of your ride. As BWD mentions, people are adaptable. Unless you are desparately chasing a particular perfromance goal (keeping up with a firend on a different ebike, or doing a set loop in a certain time) then there may be some

What power can you do in different situations – have you ever ridden with a powermeter/gym wattbike etc to know what your figures are?

One of the screens on the TQ top tube display shows rider and motor power at that moment. There’s also one for cadence.

It also appears as multiple sensors for that data and pairs to Garmin, so you can see in Connect what power you were doing at any stage of the ride.

I woudn’t trust the rider power output shown on the TQ display, mine under reads by ~40% and this is not uncommon with TQ users. Others report that it over reads. I ended up buying Garmin power meter pedals because of the large discrepancy.