this is just a bit of fun

jesus, don’t set them off again

From my hazy memory of doing it (no I wasn’t sub 12 hours), it is roughly 1/3 climbing, 1/3 descending and 1/3 approximately flat.

1 possible theory:
On the approximately flat bits, an accomplished distance rider should be able to do 15mph unassisted on an XC type bike. (do the ‘rules’ allow you to turn it off?)
the downs are obviously coasting, and that leaves thirty something miles of climbing to use the motor for. how strongly you need the assistance for the hill is the key to getting this right.

Rival theory:
calculate desired average speed (8.3mph) but allow for stops, gates or thinking you can do it faster, etc. and then exert no energy – either your own or motor – in exceeding this. Only when downhill coasting allow yourself to go faster. theory being that a steady 10mph is more efficient than some at 15mph and some at 5mph; and stopping for every gate and rambler is more inefficient the faster you are going.

What I said still applies tho – as the motor puts in power proportional to the power you put in then the slower you go the slower the battery gets used up.

It doesn’t apply.
That isn’t how the E8000 delivers assistance.
You have no experience of using one. So stop arguing.
You are 100% wrong in your assumption

Yes spinning rather than mashing may make a small differnce ( as the motor is in a more efficient zone) but the key thing is how much power you are putting in.

no it isn’t. (as above)
you don’t know what you’re talking about.

100W is 100W. The only difference the speed makes is the efficiency of the electric motor.

you’re wrong again.

Stop trying to argue about things you have absolutely no experience of.

ok, last post as its not really what the thread is about.

Take two riders who hate climbing and love descending. If one is ebiked and the other not, then yes the ebiker will have more fun in the given time.

Lots of bike riders have fun climbing as well as descending. In this case the ebiker doesn’t have more fun just because he can go further.

Dear Mr Fun Policeman

I happen to enjoy pretty much all aspects of mountainbiking. Yes, even climbing but I’m particularly fond of cornering, jumping, drifting and manualling. If I were to go out on my Ebike for 2 hours I could cover far more distance and considerably more elevation. This would mean I could hit at least 40% more corners, jumps and flat sections where I like to manual. It would also mean my enjoyment of otherwise featureless/dull uphill corners would increase from the ability to treat them as if they were flat corners and some even berms and wallrides due to the increased speed available. due to the speed/power increase many previously unrideable technical climbs also become a new challenge while others become a different challenge (because of the speed increase). The assistance also means I wouldn’t be as tired over any brow and especially towards the second half of the ride so I’d actually have more energy for “stunts”
Are you honestly saying I’m not allowed to claim I’ve had more fun in that 2 hours compared to the 40% less involvement I’d have had on my non-Ebilke in the same timescale?

Yours Sincerely

Gx

Ps. Have you even ridden a (decent) Emtb?

All I’ve got to say is have fun as it’s a great ride along the South Downs way. I don’t care if you do it on an E bike or normal push bike the name of the game is to get out there and have fun. And I should know as I’ve had two major operations in 15 months and I love mountain biking so for me it was either get an E bike and get back up the hills or give up my bikes. I chose the new E bike and I haven’t looked back.

Geex,

Rather than just saying that is wing and the e8000 didn’t work like that why don’t you just explain how the e8000 does deliver power?

This would save it going into a bun fight cycle.

Ta x

Good luck Rob. I hope you enjoy your challenge with or without STW approval

Are you honestly saying I’m not allowed to claim I’ve had more fun in that 2 hours

Yes. How many times do I have to explain it. If we both rode for 2 hours, I can guarantee I have had as much fun as you have. Why? because I enjoy all parts of my ride.
Going further might increase your enjoyment but it will never be more than mine because I enjoy every minute of that 2 hours.
If you don’t enjoy such large parts of your sport if you haven’t got an ebike, then why did you do it in the first place? I think any logical person would conclude that they don’t actually like mountain biking at that point and quit.

this is just a bit of fun

And on a bicycle.

Challenge for next time – singlespeed butchers bike with enough bacon to survive the trip on board?

How many times do I have to explain it.

Can I vote for none? 🙂

This would save it going into a bun fight cycle

Not how effective trolling works

Not how effective trolling works

With or without power assistance?

Geex,

Rather than just saying that is wing and the e8000 didn’t work like that why don’t you just explain how the e8000 does deliver power?

I was just about to say the exact same

Last post to Geex

You need to understand a bit more about the terms you use. 100w is a measure of power at an instant. 100w is 100w The cadence at which you are pedalling is irrelevant. If its putting out 100 w at 2 rpm or 100 w at 20000 rpm its still just 100 w output.

this is basic o grade physics

so sorry dude – either you don’t understand the terms or you can’t explain your thinking

Edit I wonder if you are confusing torque with power output? Because if its a torque figure – Nm then your point is right – torque is power divided by rpm so for the same torque figure the higher the rpm the higher the power

To go backto Rob – its a fun idea. You are going to have to do some clever work to hypermile it. Not only will you need to not use the motor for a large chunk you are going to have to work out at what speeds and cadence its most efficient

Good luck with the challenge, Rob.

I like the idea of tackling it on an e bike. I reckon you will find the second half harder than the first!😉

Be sure to post how you get on.

As to the question of why? Why not, I say.

Hope you have a good time.

Cheers

Sanny

Good luck Rob, I’ll be riding the SDW again this year….Over 3 days! Lol I just love the SDW,a real life affirming ride.

Anyway, good luck again and I’ll be following how you get on!👍

That’s stupid and totally pointless. The perfect combination. Enjoy 😊

“Why would riding faster with a motor make it more technically challenging than trying to clear it under your own power?”

I think you’ve forgotten the huge variety of climbing that one does on a MTB and how much it varies with your terrain. My local trails are mostly either so steep you have to push up or easy and thus boring singletrack climbs (which one often skips and gets to the top via a fire road).

On the ebike I can pedal up stuff that is normally push-up only, and the easy singletrack climbs become like riding gently downhill singletrack, mostly about the corners, because you can go uphill that fast.

The cadence at which you are pedalling is irrelevant

I think what geex is trying to say is that on this particular bike the assist is proportional to input cadence, not input power. So by pedalling more slowly in a higher gear you’d get less assist.

Is that right?

You’ve no idea what geex is trying to say because you’ve never ridden him. You have no right to an opinion 😉

All the e-bike arguing makes me laugh

I had a normal bike for years, i now have a e-mtb

I had lots of fun on the normal bike, i had lots of free time to ride but didn’t enjoy climbing (although i do enjoy it on the road bike for some strange reason)

I have lots of fun on the e-mtb, i have very limited free time now (baby) i now enjoy climbing as i can get it over quicker to spend more time riding downhill and getting more laps done in my limited time

Fun for me is measured in how long im smiling for, i smile more on the e-mtb than i did on the normal mtb so im having more fun but most people i see on normal bikes seem to be having just as much fun as me

No matter what bike you ride as long as your enjoying yourself, who cares

Back to the OP, good luck with one battery, i hope to be attempting it this year, will be my first time doing the whole route (done this kind of elevation and more distance on the road bike so kinda know what im letting myself in for)

I will be cheating even more than you though, i plan to use two 504wh batteries (one on the bike and one in my rucksack) and a 252wh bottle cage battery, so will have 1260wh

Will be on a 52lb 180mm travel Specialized Kenevo, will see how far i make it before bailing to the nearest train station

Joneseyboy – I didn’t want to talk to TJ at all nevermind argue if I’m honest as he knows **** all about the motor or how it delivers its asistance. Reading his Blind fixation on small (irrelevant) details he believes to be true is just tiresome. I really don’t know why he insists on arguing on so many subjects he knows so little about.

eg.

You need to understand a bit more about the terms you use. 100w is a measure of power at an instant. 100w is 100w The cadence at which you are pedalling is irrelevant. If its putting out 100 w at 2 rpm or 100 w at 20000 rpm its still just 100 w output.

this is basic o grade physics

I meant a steady 100w rider input not instantanious (not that it is even relevant as it was just an example)
Was naively believing all E-bike’s electronic motor controllers output power based only on power input also part of “O” grade physics curriculum in 1956?

@molgrips. Yes. Sort of. The E8000 assists based on cadence AND torque but outputs assistance at a higher power level with higher cadence. it’s plain to see from the power bar on the display and affects battery range quite considerably. The Cadence range where the motor assists most isn’t huge though and tapers off again at proper high cadence (130rpm+). Had TJ spent any time on one he “might” have figured this out for himself. Doubtful as I don’t think it’s on Wiki yet.

*swoon* @ Mr Fun Policeman
If only we could all get the same endorphin rush from trudging slowly up dull climbs as you.
Oh… and by dodging my question I’m assuming you’ve never spent a decent amount of time riding a decent Emtb. You probably shouldn’t. That way you’ll never have to find out how much moar fun you could have been having all this time 😉

I still don’t really “get” the challenge Rob. But it doesn’t matter what I think, crack on. It’s all riding bikes. init?
BTW I’m one of the only Emtb owners I know who intentionally rides my Emtb while switched off for large chunks of time/distance/climbing. Mine is pretty light (@ 47lb) and I run lighter faster rolling tyre compounds than most Emtb riders because of this. (Exo dual compound DHF/SS though not XC tyres)
You’re making a very wise choice in fitting XC tyres. But even with those and a light(ish) Emtb I really don’t envy your task.
good luck with it.

I really don’t know why he insists on arguing on so many subjects he knows so little about.

are you new here? 😉

Quite new. Yes.

😉

Thing is. I know Teej in real life and quite like him.

“I really don’t know why he insists on arguing on so many subjects he knows so little about.”

TJ’s response to the autism thread was very enlightening on that front!

Geex so actually you simply didn’t explain yourself properly. 100 w rider input not 100 w motor output. ( I and the rest of us were discussing motor output) I did say you are either very confused about the physics OR not explaining yourself properly. Now you give a little more detail its the latter

Mind you you are still getting your SI units a bit confused Watts has no time compoinent

You should fit a dynamo hub and charge up the battery from that.

If he got it set up just right, with decent cables, he could give it just a few pedal strokes at winchester, then the dynamo hub would power the motor, which would push the bike forwards, which in turn would spin the dynamo which would power the motor more, which would push the bike forward, which in turn would spin the dynamo which would power the motor more.
He could just sit on his self propelled machine and simply enjoy teh view.
And probably stop for a wee somewhere along the way. I guess..

DrP

Chief, None of the (diagnosed Aspy) autistic people I know (very well) argue about things they don’t know anything about. Quite the opposite. But TJ is a pig headed bloke (they are not). This “trait” is not exclusive to Autism. Please don’t fall foul of run around playing the “A” card for someonme you’ve never even met.

TJ what I said was

output a steady 100w…

By that I meant a “rider input” of 100w. to me this was clear. But I really was half arsed replying to you as I genuinely didn’t want to have this dull pointless conversation with you in the first place.

My SI units were fine.
Stop clutching at further irrelevancies to argue.

so output 100w = rider input 100w in your explanation. – thats where the confusion came from. Fine. Your explanation was unclear so we were actually discussing differnt things. confusion now cleared up

I agree this is nothing to do with any aspie traits bar of course I took the words you posted at face value and didn’t get you meant something other than what you said.

so we were actually discussing differnt things.

No. only YOU were.

😉

“Can’t see what there is to prove here.”
I’d imagine scott bikes might want to sell a few models on the back of it .
Anyhow , good luck Rob. Have fun.
What time are you setting off?

this thread is well funny, haven’t got a clue what anyone is saying but (@ 47lb) for an eBike, my old Gspot used to weigh that much and i used to pedal that around, so Rob if you run outof juice it will be like riding a big old bouncy bike for XC.. Have fun!

Back on track…
Something I’ve wanted to try for a bit was to speak to the local shop to me (South Downs Bikes) and have 5 turbo levos lined up along the SDW..one every 20 miles (? a guess) and just smash out the SDW on an e-bike in TURBO mode…. swapping to the next one when the power runs out…

I figured that as I can do it sub 9 hours on a rigid SS, a bit of ‘leccy assistance might make it a bit quicker…

DrP

(however, actually, don’t they top out at 16mph??? hmm… maybe i’d reach the limit there then…)

yes legal ones top out at 15.5 mph. However you could do all the climbs at top speed and of course you can pedal them faster than that on the downs.

In the up vs down debate. I’ve heard of uplift days, but never downlift days.

es legal ones top out at 15.5 mph. However you could do all the climbs at top speed and of course you can pedal them faster than that on the downs.

yeah.. if tackling the climbs at 15mph, and using the full sus on the downs, I reckon i’d be MUCH quicker!

DrP

I’ve heard of uplift days, but never downlift days.

Maybe not, but climbing up technical climbs then bombing down a fire road does seem to be a thing in Europe (Germans in particular I think). Never really caught on here, but I reckon some of my riding gets close and I do love a sausage 🙂