perceived value

And for those same perceived values – people also buy Titanium frames.

It is known that the dropouts are a cheaper version (slab cut Ti instead of fab cowled dropouts.

Funny you should say that. Whenever I'm out riding my £350 Ti frame, my enjoyment is always spoiled knowing I only have slab cut Ti drop-outs. I just know that cowled drop-outs would make me a much better rider, that having Lynskey stamped on the side of the tubes would make women swoon at my feet and that "Moots" is really short-hand for "I have an enormous penis".

druidh – exactly !

druidh, preaching to the converted mate! Thats why I have the Planet X frames and NOT the Moots or IF one! The PX frames have the important details, ie tube quality, weld quality, ovalised down tube etc, and skimp (if you can call it skimping?) on some of the pretty details that add a lot of machining cost.

druidh, how come your ti frame was £350?

* Bought at source
* No "brand" premium
* Favourable exchange rate

Ah, I looked into this but I didnt know which one to go with (through fleabay) as it some claimed to be 'for premium brands' and there was the fear that there were QC failures. How did you source? I might go down this route partly out of interest but also….if you can specify your own angles there could be the chance of a ti Chameleon 😯

A quick search on ebay finds this. Looks identical to mine. Price has changed a fair bit in the intervening 18 or so months. What you have to ask yourself is "am I saving enough to account for any risks". For instance, you can buy (basically) the same frame from Van Nicholas for €799.

Are Van Nicholas a "low quality" supplier? It'll be interesting to see where the new Ti On Ones are coming from.

I did have a link to a seller who could supply custom angles. I'll see if I can dig it out.

Yes please Druidh

Agree on risk but then again, if its crash-damage a warranty doesnt replace so really just defects.

druid the new ones are from lynskey