Oh dear, daughters PIP forms have landed….

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  • Oh dear, daughters PIP forms have landed….
  • lovewookie
    Member

    Daughter diagnosed with Aspergers at 13, recieved DLA until that was changed to PIP. At 16 was required to attend an assessment in the city. Needed us to coach her to get there, what to expect etc, ended up just taking her in and her mum escorting her to keep her ok. Assessment was a list of leading questions like, ‘you can cook a meal can’t you?’ (on her worst, she’ll curl up in bed, or just forget to eat, best, she’ll give it a go, with constant reassurance from us). Scored 0 points and was refused PIP having been assessed along the lines of ‘she looks alright to me’. We won on appeal 6 months, lots of stress and financial strain later.

    Now normally for Aspergers or other lifelong conditions she’d be automatically entitled to PIP, but because we won on appeal, now she’s 18 she has to re-apply.

    I’m a bit nervous about it all to be honest. The prospect of being told after all the effort we need to put in to allow our girl to function the way she wants to, in the real world, that she doesn’t require assistance to function is a big cloud.

    Still, we did win last time, so it should make it easier, maybe :-/

    cynic-al
    Member

    Get some help from CAB or similar, they deal with this all the time

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    I hope all goes well – the system often seems to be fairly arbitrary when it comes to PIP and other LA support for children and young adults.

    Premier Icon notmyrealname
    Subscriber

    I was going to suggest the same as above.

    Speak to Citizens Advice. They deal with this kind of thing a lot. My Dad is an advisor for them and has mentioned some of the cases they deal with when it comes to benefits and their input seems to often push things in the right direction for people.

    Premier Icon Rusty Spanner
    Subscriber

    I hope all goes well – the system often seems to be fairly arbitrary when it comes to PIP and other LA support for children and young adults.

    It’s not arbitrary. It’s purposely designed so that it’s almost impossible to meet the criteria.

    * Personal experience of this and Universal Credit on behalf of family.

    Premier Icon bearnecessities
    Subscriber

    That didn’t take long.

    Premier Icon Rusty Spanner
    Subscriber

    Sorry, but it’s true.

    Premier Icon Drac
    Subscriber

    As Al says seek advice have you had a support worker in the past? They may be able to help as they deal with them.

    Anyway everyone knows they’re dead easy to fill in as anyone can claim PIP.

    ninfan
    Member

    The system just seems to have no idea at all with Aspergers/autism

    i was assessed first time at zero points, 11 points awarded at tribunal, reassessed 18 months later at one point.

    What seems to happen is that the HCP who does the assessment (if you turn up at the assessment and discuss your difficulties then you must be able to engage face to face appears to be their attitude) and the DM (computer says no) never bother actually reading the background notes or previous tribunal decision (always ask for a statement of reasons from your tribunal, as this stays on file)

    With a bit of luck this then gets overturned at mandatory reconsideration, because at that point a grown up actually has to look at it. (I’m waiting for that at the moment)

    there is case law that if you end up back at tribunal, a clear indication has to be given to explain inconsistent decisions, and in the absence of a miracle cure for a lifelong neurological condition that’s unlikely to prove easy, so hopefully your safeguard

    Premier Icon bearnecessities
    Subscriber

    If you were sorry you’d make a considered comment rather than the lazy stereotypical  extreme views that are always trotted out regarding welfare.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    It’s not arbitrary. It’s purposely designed so that it’s almost impossible to meet the criteria.

    * Personal experience of this and Universal Credit on behalf of family.

    Sadly, my experience of the process is very similar to this.  The system is obtuse and the assessors we had outright lied.

    You will almost certainly fail on a first application.  You must appeal.

    lovewookie
    Member

    Speak to Citizens Advice. They deal with this kind of thing a lot. My Dad is an advisor for them and has mentioned some of the cases they deal with when it comes to benefits and their input seems to often push things in the right direction for people.

    That’s how we managed through the appeal process, our CAB is really helpful. The advisor pretty much takes it on as a matter of principle as he sees so much injustice in the way the assessment system is set up.

    Premier Icon Rusty Spanner
    Subscriber

    If you were sorry you’d make a considered comment rather than the lazy stereotypical  extreme views that are always trotted out regarding welfare.

    I see it everyday in work.

    I’ve recently had experience of it at home.

    I know people who have tried to take their own lives rather than continue with the degrading, inhuman treatment they have received.

    I know highly intelligent social workers and care workers who have been driven to despair by the attitudes of those who are supposedly there to help them.

    But, yes mate, you know best.

    Tell us your positive experiences.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    65% of appeals against initial assessments are successful. The majority of PIP appeals find outright lies in the original assessment. There is so much more evidence that the system is intentionally broken but this is really enough.

    OP, good luck to you

    bearnecessities,what is your experience of this process,that is so different to every other posters ?

    wrightyson
    Member

    Apologies for ignorance but what is pip?

    Rob Hilton
    Member

    Apologies for ignorance but what is pip?

    Ignorance is no excuse for not having read Dickens.

    Premier Icon bearnecessities
    Subscriber

    I wasn’t questioning people’s experiences, simply that the polarised views that people take – from ‘everyone are scroungers’ to the other side of ‘a system designed to make people fail’ help nobody and repeatedly entrench a poisonous stance on an incredibly complex topic.

    The thread has some helpful advice about what can be a stressful situation at the best of times. The system can be  complicated and scary for people – considering it’s their income at stake.

    Talk about specifics, share experiences and make helpful suggestions for those going through the same or researching this page in the future, not make lazy, sensationalist and inaccurate statements that will only frighten those very people.

    Reading the OP,I don’t think that the author would be scared by some of the comments on here,he appears to have enough experience to warrant a combination of fear and cynicism,65% of appeals successful would appear to imply that the assessment process is deeply flawed,and “designed to fail” appears to be fair comment,not scare-mongering.Do you have your own agenda here?

    Every year I have to contact the council to get my disabled badge reissued. This usually consists of me counting my legs and confirming that it hasn’t grown back yet.

    I did have a go at the DLA just to try to offset the cost of having my cars converted but I’m not disabled enough apparently.

    Premier Icon Rusty Spanner
    Subscriber

    …not make lazy, sensationalist and inaccurate statements…

    Could you point out where I’ve done that please?

    I posted about my own and my wife’s experiences earlier in the year, not sure I want to go through it all again tbh.

    rmacattack
    Member

    The whole pip system is so corrupt and rouge it’s laughable and deeply ashaming at the same time. Try and keep this short and simple, an uncle had a nerve cut in his spine by a surgeon. He can no longer get about and is loaded up on tablets to ease pain. He was denied because he was able to hold eye contact with the assessor. A perfectly able bodied man who is looking a little extra on the side to his cash in hand job was approved because he put on an act to the assessor who believed him. He used a cane and wet his underwear. The next week he was working on a roof with extra income coming in, taken away from someone who needs it. The whole assessment and application process needs a whole overhaul.

    cynic-al
    Member

    I’ve worked with a few folk going for pip. Seems like a nightmare, most have been successful on appeal, thankfully the suicide attempts were not success.

    Bearnecessites I expect if you’d had my experience you would think it was ok to post up.

    ninfan
    Member

    The next week he was working on a roof with extra income coming in, taken away from someone who needs it.

    I’ll just point out that PIP has nothing to do with whether you can work or not, its do help people, both working and not, cope with additional costs/needs/help that may be brought about through their disability.

    ESA is the one you might be thinking about – but even that allows people to do limited amounts of work in recognition that its often good for people who might not be able to work full time.

    rmacattack
    Member

    I’ll just point out that PIP has nothing to do with whether you can work or not, its do help people, both working and not, cope with additional costs/needs/help that may be brought about through their disability

    You misinterpreted my post, the person in question has absolutely nothing wrong with them yet duped the system, whereas someone who actually is in dire need of it  and is going through courts to obtain it is being unsuccessful due to a woeful application and monitoring system.

    Premier Icon survivor
    Subscriber

    This is a good site

    https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/

    costs a few quid to access their guides but it’s still worth it. They are an advocacy group who regularly harass the government for change and transparency, so money well spent.

    Only other advice I can give is to get as many health professionals as possible to back up your claim with written support.

    Good luck

    fatgit
    Member

    Hi

    Hope you don’t mind but I’m particularly interested in this.

    OH was awarded full PIP last September after a 15month fight and initially being awarded Zero points and assessment process as described above.

    She has very complex mental health issues and She’ll have a review next Sept we’re told and not sure if we’ll have to go through the whole process again or will it be more straightforward?

    Cheers

    Steve

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    the other side of ‘a system designed to make people fail’ help nobody and repeatedly entrench a poisonous stance on an incredibly complex topic.

    Yet, anecdotally from a sample pool of “one” my experience of the process is that it exactly this.

    What’s your experience?

    Premier Icon survivor
    Subscriber

    Fatgit….

    You will be sent a simpler form basically asking if there has been any change. On first appearance it seems your sending it back after only ticking a few boxes.

    Again I would advise sending any supporting documentation from health professionals to prove this and fill in what you see fit to support your claim.

    Premier Icon jamj1974
    Subscriber

    Best of luck OP.  PIP, particularly PIP assessment is evil.   I have my fingers crossed for you.

    tjagain
    Member

    Its  part of Mrs TJs job to deal with PIP assessments for folk.  It is a system designed to make you fail.  Get professional help.

    dpfr
    Member

    The Carers Federation were brilliant when my brother had a really bad time a few years ago. Congenital heart defect, diabetes and some other problems which ultimately killed him last year at the age of 54 were dismissed as sleep apnoea.

    lovewookie
    Member

    Thanks all for your comments.

    We’re making an appointment with CAB from the start this time, should make it a bit more straight forward.

    Got home last night and both my daughter and wife were very flat. The forms falling through the door have pushed my daughter into a spiral. One admittedly she was on the edge of due to college work initially, but this really hasn’t helped.

    The normal coping mechnaisms didn’t work, so we had an evening of her micro analysing every aspect of her life so far to pick at the negatives and smudge the positives.

    These are the effects that nobody sees. it’s no wonder people decide to take their own lives, you can see how the spiral keeps getting deeper.

    Thankfully my daughter has told us that she’s not suicidal. She’s very honest about that after a pretty hard time several years ago, which came to light after she decided she no longer needed the ‘suicide pack’, consisting of razor blades, matches, tape (taping the blades separated with matchsticks apparently makes it more difficult to stitch the wounds) and a written note she’d been keeping hidden for the previous 3 years.

    anyway, we need to look out the information we provided previously, diagnosis, CAHMS assessment, school evaluations, occupational health assessment…

    This always hits the OH hard, as we’re reminded of all the difficulties that she has and that she masks, and the coping mechanisms we all put in place to help her exist without being questioned too much, or being called stupid, or worse.

    All we can do is move forward.

    Premier Icon FB-ATB
    Subscriber

    Last year after our son’s DLA claim was approved, the letter said we didn’t have to do another until 6 years rather than the 3 it has been.  The relief at that was short lived when it dawned that we’d be looking at PIP

    What  is galling is that the process is outsourced. If 65% of appeals are upheld, the taxpayer has paid for dodgy service.

    lovewookie
    Member

    What is galling is that the process is outsourced. If 65% of appeals are upheld, the taxpayer has paid for dodgy service.

    It seems that way.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/30/staggering-rise-pip-complaints-rot-system-disability-benefits

    there were ‘targets’ talked about, to remove people from recieving what they needed way back when ATOS started with the PIP assessments, more recently it’s been admitted that there were, I believe. Maybe not dodgy service, but unethical practices to meet the demands of the DWP?

    footflaps
    Member

    Was on the radio this morning, in some regions 75% of appeals favour the applicant!

    neilwheel
    Member

    They probably look at it as a success as 25% to 35% of claims disappear.

    belfastflyer
    Member

    I’ve had a few relatives go through it, like others say get advice. If you have an mp/msp/mla thats anti tory go to them as their staff might help you with it and will also be good back up.

    Get letters/statements from everyone that comes in contact with your daughter. Go to a local charity for her disability and see if they have anyone that is working with the PIP scum bags, get them aware of your case as they’ll also be useful back up.

    It’s a horrible thing people are going through but sadly most of the public dont care

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    “Was on the radio this morning, in some regions 75% of appeals favour the applicant!”

    And you have to bear in mind that one of the reasons it’s not higher is that some people die before they can complete an appeal.

    The other thing is that the appeals are essentially blame-free, even when an initial assessment is outright deceitful there’s not a built in process to feed that back let alone censure the offender. There are disciplinary/quality processes in place but they operate separately.

    lovewookie
    Member

    Update. Assessment forms filled in with the help of CAB. It was really bare minimum in there.

    last friday was her assessment. In the city. At 9am.

    Oh and of course, her bus card, the one she uses to get into town, so she can just get on the same bus every day, not have to speak to anyone about where she’s going or the right change, or anything that may add to her uncertainties. That was stopped earlier in the week, as she’s being re-assessed.

    I take the day off work. Wife is stressed out her box about the assessment. Daughter is anxious.

    Get there, wait. half an hour later than our appointment, daughter is on the edge. I don’t know if she’s going to burst into tears or start throwing things (chairs and people, mostly) around.

    She manages to stay calm enough and we’re called in. Wife accompanies her, as we’re only allowed one carer.

    I go for a wander for an hour, spend some vouchers and browse bike shops.

    I get back, they’re out.

    By this time I’m a bit nervous. After the last assessment my daughter took the line of questioning and how she’d done by denying she was ever diagnosed, then anger/frustration at the whole process and reason it was being questioned, then spiralled into depression.

    That was a long 6 months of my wife and I appealing, twice, then back and forth to CAB until the tribunal.

    This time was very different.

    Being met with ‘yeah that was OK’ was such a sense of relief.

    The assessor was very compassionate, focussed mostly on how she is on her bad days as a basis for evaluation. And while it was very hard for the past to be dug up and for my wife to hear my daughter talk abut how she was suicidal while she was depressed, how she feels on a day to day basis and the difficulties she has doing normal things, like filling the dishwasher, planning journeys, keeping friends and generally being as independent as an 18 year old should be, it was honest and needed.

    I’m hoping this goes better this time.

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