does anyone know what in the UK officially constitues a bedroom?
mortgage valuation says it isn’t because there’s no window, estate agent says it is. it’s certainly big enough.

who are you trying to con? presuming it counts its still a shit bedroom!

estate will tell you an airing cupboard is a bed room it you can get a cot in it.

I very much doubt any official definition exists. Mortgage company will talk the price down, the estate agent up.

i think there is a rule that says a living space needs to have so much natural light entering. so with no window it wont be classed as a room.

not trying to con anyone doglover. and it’s far from shit.
the room has glass bricks in it at the top of one wall which allow light in from another room which does have a window – does that make a difference?
the mortgage company stated some ‘statutory definition’ – I was just wondering what that actully was…

can you not fit a window into the room to make it more appealing to sell anyway? or does the room have no external wall?

I’m buying, not selling.
there’s no external wall.

how would the fire brigade get in to rescue somebody if there was a fire outside the door?

have a look at part B of the planning regs as that is the fire safety one and MAY be the issue, it is to do with escape in the event of fire, do you have a clear escape route from the room?

as far as I recall, a habitable room has to have ventilation (normally provided by an openable window). thus a box room with no window is unlikely to be able to be classed as a bedroom if it doesn’t have suitable ventilation… same goes for half-arsed attic conversions.. unless they met thebuilding regulations at the timd of construction, they can’t be classed as habitable rooms

Are you putting someome in it ?

Id just knock it down to the price of a house with 1 less bedroom if your only using it occasionally but wouldnt stick a kid in it or use it regular ! I would stink for one thing ! Likely get damp too !

I had.an estate agent telling me that i was in a 3 bedroom house at the weekend – 2 bedrooms upstair and there wasnt a single point on the upper floor i could stand in …..bodged attic conversion !

Then today estate agent saying upstairs is ripe for am attic conversion – up i went with a tape measure – 1.9m – you could bodge it but it will never be a room – needs to be 2.2m min .

Estate agents will tell you anything !

mate had this only a bathroom can legally have no window this was few years ago when he added a new bedroom
How anyone can tell wher eyou sleep in your house or how this would be enforced is far from clear.
I assume it may affect the selling price perhaps but in reality if you use it as a bedroom then its a bedroom.

mrmo, thanks for that, looking at the Fire Safety regs, there is only the requirement for a room on the ground floor to have either a window or open directly onto a hall leading to an entrance/ exit – it does the latter.

we’d be sticking a kid in it, once we’ve found one we like.

there must be a definition for buildings insurance?

Worst case scenario…..If there was a fire outside the door and the young one couldn’t get past and no window to get out of…..

we’d be sticking a kid in it, once we’ve found one we like

😯

we’re only planning on being there for 3 years so sprog won’t be up to escaping fires. there are little windows in glass blocks in the adjoining wall which goes through to the master bedroom which I guess provides ventilation.

I’d be a bit concerned about air changes in a room like that. Part F of the Building Regs has details. A ‘habitable room’ requires air changes per hour of at least 0.4 to 1. Less than that and you start looking at a lack of oxygen for anyone habiting the room. I have no idea how you could do that with what you describe.

Daylighting is also going to be an issue with what you describe. Your local environmental / planning dept in the council could possibly offer advice.

Overall – unhealthy room for ventilation and daylight reasons. Thinking about putting a child in there is a bit of a grim prospect.

I don’t think you find anything on the amount of light that is specified, so not really an issue.
My main advice would be to go and speak to both the fire service and planning as the building regs can be interpreted differently by different people.
I assume you’re buying an existing building, so I’d just run it past either the planning dept or building control and/or the fire service for peace of mind.
If it’s an upstairs room the fire service might have problems if they can’t access quickly.

Thinking about putting a child in there is a bit of a grim prospect.

seriously, it’s far from grim. It’s an ok size room (2mx4.5m), with good amounts of light (through the glass bricks in the wall) and high ceilings.

don simon, thanks, I might do that – it’s a ground floor room BTW. my immediate concern is the valuation based on it not being a bedroom as this will impact the resale and therefore our existing offer will need to be reduced.

OK then – ventilation – enough air to breathe is a big issue for people who breathe.

The fire regs appear to insist on a window to exit from or ‘protected exit’ to the outside of the house which is a 30 minute corridor – fire doors on all rooms etc. Quite a bit of work if you are paying for it.

Any distance in knocking out the wall to make a bigger room or changing the distribution in the future?
After having a ballache of a sale after not knowing/sorting out the legalities of an overhanging bedroom, I’d suggest you get it sorted before buying. I’ll guarantee that when you come to selling you’ll have problems.

The fire service, in my experience, are interested in people being able to escape and them being able to gain access. for the downstairs rooms there are other requirements, but it does come down to some form of common sense.
Speak to the professionals. As mentioned above you might have future problems if you don’t get it sorted now.

it’s basically the ground floor of a terraced house with the master bedroom having the windows at the front and the reception room having the windows at the back.
there’s no real scope for adjusting the layout, not without major expenditure anyway.

you might have future problems if you don’t get it sorted now.

hence the questions.

Its a cupboard masquerading as a bedroom. I believe it needs a window or other natural ventilation to be a bedroom. I certainly wouldn’t want to live in it

Have a look here.
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk
And then have a wander through here to see if you can find anything else.
http://www.planningportal.co.uk
Enjoy.
TJ, we have different rules down here, I really do think that you don’t know what you’re talking about. 🙄

hence the questions.

😳 Sorry

I’ve been wading through the planning portal websites, thanks.
Seems to be ill-defined.

TJ, thankfully you won’t have to.

Seems to be ill-defined.

And deliberately so, I think. Go and speak to the council and the fire service and maybe insurance co, try and get something in writing to cover yourself. It won’t be the first time they’ve come across this. If you are offered an unacceptable remedy, talk it through with them until you can find a suitable solution.
Good luck.

my immediate concern is the valuation based on it not being a bedroom as this will impact the resale and therefore our existing offer will need to be reduced.

Any problems you have now will be the same for other potential buyers in the future. If you are comfortable with using it for your kid then nobody is going to stop you (we have a room a bit like that which we use as a spare room/study – although it is labelled as “store” on the building warrant when the work was done by the previous occupants. It was not included in the “bedroom count” on insurance etc. On estate agent stuff I think it was carefully described as “an extra room currently being used as a study”.

Ours has air vents to the outside but no daylight and I don’t think would tick the fire escape boxes. Rooms without windows were (and probably still are) quite common in Edinburgh Tenements rented to students as houses of multiple occupation and described as “box rooms”.

So don’t pay for it as a bedroom – but if you are happy with it use it as one! A toddler probably prefers to sleep in a room where you completely control the lighting rather than seasonal fluctuations waking them (and therefore you) at 4am etc…

If you are comfortable with using it for your kid then nobody is going to stop you

A proactive health visitor may get a little upset if they disagree and you’ll be too far down the line to change anything then.

A toddler probably prefers to sleep in a room where you completely control the lighting rather than seasonal fluctuations waking them

Amazingly, children adapt to the changes of the seasons and blackout curtains are available. Otherwise, keeping children cellars would be far more socially acceptable!

blackout curtains are available

That would be correct, black out blinds are definitely available, and not just for childrens’ rooms either. 😉

TooTall – can I just state, for the record, that I appreciate and accepts your views, but please be aware that I will not be keeping my child in a damp cellar with no natural light.
Unless it’s very naughty.

A proactive health visitor may get a little upset if they disagree and you’ll be too far down the line to change anything then.

With two children neither of them were ever seen in their bedroom by a health visitor. In fact other than the living room and the kitchen (to wash her hands) they didn’t go elsewhere at all. With our daughter she was asleep in her room throughout one visit and the Health Visitor didn’t even go to check she existed!

Given that ‘official advice’ is to keep newborns in the parents room for the first six months (which we ignored and didn’t get dragged to court for neglect). Then I don’t see the problem. A Health Visitor suggested a friend of ours keep the cot on the landing outside their room (they had plenty of space but it provided a compromise between easy to access/hear and not disturbing their own sleep) when they “complained” about the suggestion to keep the baby in their room. I know of several people who’s “box room” in Edinburgh tenements is their “nursery” so I really don’t think it would raise any eyebrows – provided the child is developing normally etc.

Amazingly, children adapt to the changes of the seasons and blackout curtains are available. Otherwise, keeping children cellars would be far more socially acceptable!

that was my point – people spend money to intentionally black out a room – so having a room with no external ‘windows’ is not really going to affect a toddler.

I’m with tootall on this. I wouldn’t let one of my most fragile and cherished relatives sleep in a room without adequate ventilation. An extract fan and undercut door would probably do it, if you dont want to do this then at least test it. There is a reason windows have trickle vents.

With two children neither of them were ever seen in their bedroom by a health visitor

Which is why I said ‘proactive’. Our HV wanted to see where our little one was sleeping, other parents haven’t had that.

Fresh air ventilation requirements are about 1l/sec/pers just to provide oxygen for breathing and 5l/sec/person to reduce the build up of CO2.

Which is why I said ‘proactive’. Our HV wanted to see where our little one was sleeping, other parents haven’t had that.

Our health visitor asked this too, we said no. Slightly intrusive. we had a row she left, never saw another HV after that, all the ones we met were dead nice apart from this one.