No – which is why I’m involved 😉

I don’t think we can bank on battery technology, right now. We aren’t going to get the 300 mile range with a 5 min recharge ever, I don’t think. Might as well wait for the fusion powered car.

However making them cheap isn’t a bad idea.

Then – if it’s cheap, don’t put any gadgets on it because if cheapness is the USP it’ll need to be as cheap as possible. If they were £5k and decent to drive/use they’d sell like hot cakes, even with a 40 mile range. If they were £8k and came with satnav and cruise and heated seats, they’d lose out to cheap petrol cars I reckon.

You could have battery pack size as an option. So you buy it in 20/40/60 mile range and pay accordingly. That would be a real winner imo.

gofasterstripes – Member
Hey – the research is for the design of an electric car It’s a university project, ongoing postgrad stuff.

We ought to talk – I’m working on a lightweight EV and this is my mule:-

Trike (not sure if that link will work outside my Dropbox login)

and it’s pretty rapid even with just 15kW but then it does only weight 360kgs, 10kW in a heavier body would be getting a bit pedestrian.

20/40/60 mile range

200/400/600 mile range before I’d even look.
but then I’m after the equivalent of an Octavia vRS estate 4wd with range to get from Frankfurt to Innsbruck (and a bit more), in winter, with skis, and 5 min top up time from empty to full.

around town, I can walk faster than tanking up the car or finding a parking spot.

Well done Speeder, you’ve designed the

😉

200/400/600 mile range before I’d even look.

Yeah well that ain’t happening. I’m talking about replacing a city car, not replacing your long distance car.

Speeder – Renault Twizy?

but a 20 mile range will be “up to” 20, so probably more like 10 or so (especially when cold). so is a car that would need to be pretty much permanently on charge when not in use.

60 might just about be a once a week charge.

200 probably could be.

sure some might be able to make use of that (indeed some already do, with things like GWiz), but 20 mile range is probably 1970’s milkfloat spec. and they charged up overnight, and virtually crawled back to the depot.

Takes another interesting turn…

Don’t you think it’s time to stop parroting the “LOL it’s a C5” line? Why does that always get brought-up?

The central issue surrounding this is the comparison between the C5, Speeder’s Trike and a 1500kg car. They’re not the same thing, they shouldn’t be the same design, they shouldn’t be compared….and yet it’s within a day on this thread, people start comparing them.

It’s almost like the character assignation by the big auto companies worked, isn’t it? 😉

but a 20 mile range will be “up to” 20, so probably more like 10

I wasn’t outlining design specs, I just pulled those numbers out of thin air. I was just saying that different sized battery packs would be an option so you pay less if you need less range.

GFS – the issue, for me, is that tiny electric cars seem neither one thing or the other. If I drive, it’s because I want a safe solid comfy place to be. A small personal mobility thing would be ok but tbh I might as well ride my bike. Or use a scooter.

It’s more vulnerable than a car, and way more expensive and harder to park than a bike.

Plus people keep talking about London – I’d just use the tube!

This will remain difficult for as long as we desire to own the vehicle. The moment we can let go and use and re-use vehicles in a Boris Bike kind of way, the current technology suddenly becomes more acceptable.

If our long distance journies could be made pleasent on the train system (!) then we can just pick up a Boris Car in any city for the short remainder of the journey.

Something like only 10% of the motor vehicle stock is in use at any one time, even rush hour. So, we simply don’t need them all if we share them out a bit more.

Rachel

A bit of info on the safety of quadricycles , such as the Twizy on the euro Ncap website.

I had always assumed the Twizy was classed as a car.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zet4qF4cE3Q[/video]

.

Twizy is a bit more like it… Cat L for a start!

The range thing is probably less of an issue than you think. We’ll not have too much trouble cracking 60miles now, let alone shortly.

Fast recharge is quite the turning point I think.

Anyway – I’m not going to let this get totally derailed…

Apart from range >100km what FEATURES are guys really thinking are necessary in such a small car?

Realistically if we’re looking at a small electric town/city car that would be a ‘second’ car in a household for short local trips then I’d be happy with very little in the way of features (but then I did have Land Rovers as daily drivers for many years).

Cheap to buy and cheap to run (must be significant saving over a small petrol car other wise why live with the compromise)
A good solid dependable 60+ mile range (not a quoted max that is not achievable in real world conitions)
Reliable range gauge
4 Seats
Enough boot space for a weeks shopping
Heater / screen demister
C/L
Auto / CVT

Hell, the last one isn’t even necessary, but more suited to the type of car/use.

A small cheap (total cost of ownership) run around for those local trips would fit the bill as our second car for 99% of it’s trips. The other 1% could be worked around with public transport or the main family car. We have a T5 for the long distance trips and when there is a need to load lug (camping trips, bikes etc).

With sufficient range overnight charging at home would cover most short trip requirements, but with more readily available and cost effective charge points it could dramatically increase the useability. Not going to be able to charge up in the time to fill a petrol car, so ignoring battery swap stations for now, charging needs to be done at ‘point of rest’, car parks etc rather than dedicated mid-journey ‘fuel stations’ as we use for petrol cars. Battery capacity and life needs to be unaffected by ‘top up’ charging rather than needing to do full cycle charging, so you can keep the battery topped up towards full charge as often as possible, ie you plug in each time you park for any length of time.

thread title made no constraints of form of motive force etc. and size.

overnight charging at home only any use for those in a 2bed semi with driveway and a cable going in their garage. and maybe a few with underground parking in apartment blocks. useless for the rest.

if it’s small city shopper, then keep it simple. space for 4 plus a months shopping. who cares about any other requirements other than those to pass MOT and current UK/EU regulations.

regardless of size, and form of propulsion, it needs range, plus an installed network of stations allowing refill/recharge from near empty to near full in sub 5 minutes.

funnily enough. that exists.

Don’t worry dude, I deliberately didn’t say any constraints, I wanted all the input possible 🙂

Great thoughts, thanks.

space for 4 plus a months shopping

Space for 2 + shopping or 4 without shopping – already enough kids in the supermarket. In fact it’s probably greener to get a taxi or get your shopping delivered.

If you really want to make a dent with an electric car it has to be able to replace whaetever the 10-40 mile daily commuter is using.

The only thing I miss on the Polo is heated mirrors – on the Rav I’d like an up and over tailgate.

Oh, well if we’re going for an ideal day to day car within the realms of possibility…

IC/electric for motive power with a reasonable battery range and fast charge for normal commuting. Being vague on specific fuel for IC as that’s a whole new range of possibilities but petrol/ethanol/lpg/hydrogen are all possibilities.

Seating for four plus shopping (for private ownership) or a smaller seating for two plus two or shopping (for car club).

Mechanical controls where possible – cheap, easy to use (encourages take-up of car clubs and such with the elderly), reliable. No auto gizmos (and a regular non-backlit instrument cluster!) to go wrong.

Easy to use radio, forget DAB as sole option because not everyone gets it. A simple, seperate, satnav display would be good as well (presume car club would have GPS tracking anyway).

Standard parts where possible ie. no stupid sizes of wheels or tyres or low profiles for delusions of sportyness, you want it to stay cheap and capable.

It should also be simple to work on, where components need to be removed they should be done so easily. Look at BTCC racers, their entire front end is held together by four bolts meaning the entire engine bay can be removed for work relatively quickly. That’s the kind of thing that keeps garage bills down (for both consumer and manufacturer) and cheap appeal up.

Design it according to purpose rather than style. You can tart it up once it’s done, cheap and frugal to run and maintain (both in money and time) are more important than looks and glamour.

Ab electric car would need virtually no under-bonnet maintenance anyway.

The IC generator would though.

From a fleet perspective it makes more sense to get the front end off and even another one back on in the shortest time possible to get it back out on the road. Having seen the long term performance of motors and such they DO need maintenance occasionally, why make it any more difficult than it needs to be?

phone signal blocker at > 10mph (passengers can lump it IMO)

erratic driving detector / engine disabler

heated screen & mirrors

fog lights that reset when the ignition goes off

unstoppable tailgating alarm if you get within 1 second of the car ahead

DAB ? 😆 – I can’t even get a dependable signal along the M27

fog lights that reset when the ignition goes off

Like this a lot.

or auto fog lights

rocket launcher in tailgate to shoot down tailgaters

does DAB actually work anywhere?

Must haves:

Ground clearance for the occasional track.
High profile tyres for ride and pot holes.
Convenient cup holders. Lots off em.
Large doors
Big knobs for heating and stuff.
Auto dimming/heated mirrors.
Seat height adjusters that work.
Windows that close after I’ve turned the engine orf.
Aircon
Style

Good stuff:
Cruise
Auto box
Dab radio
Heated seats

Dead simple interior with waterproof moulded plastic seats so you can just hose it down when it gets minging- cars are just tools after all.

No excessive electrical/electronic frippery at all, there’s no need.

Two seats arranged tandem style, with a drop down boot so you can roll a bicycle in beside the seats.

Keep it light and efficient.