We’d still have cool stuff. It just wouldn’t be designed to hurt people. I’m sure you’re not a simpleton though. Sorry, my equations comment was a bit direct. Sorry, I take it back. 🙂

The thing is, the design is born out of the need.

Would we really have needed to design such a small, fast, agile, single seat aeroplane as a Spitfire in the late 1930s if there wasn’t a war looming? I think not.

We’d still have cool stuff. It just wouldn’t be designed to hurt people. I’m sure you’re not a simpleton though. Sorry, my equations comment was a bit direct. Sorry, I take it back.

that’s kind of the point i was trying to make in a roundabout way (loikes I said – i’m a simpleton 😉 ) no offense taken !

Would we really have needed to design such a small, fast, agile, single seat aeroplane as a Spitfire in the late 1930s if there wasn’t a war looming? I think not

It’s basically the Supermarine Schneider Cup air race plane/design with 8 Brownings on it….. IIRC RJ Mitchell never got to see it go to war…..

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were terrible events, but nowhere near as unpleasant as what the Japanese unleashed on mainland China.

It saved the lives of tens of thousands Allied troops who did not die as a result of having to invade Japan. That makes it worthwhile. It probably also saved 100s of thousands of Japanese lives as well. Unpleasant but true

As posted above, I think this view is fairly contentious these days. The US use of nuclear strike on Japan was aimed fair and square at Stalin, whose armies were massed on the Manchurian border at the time – externally, it was all about establishing the post war hegemony. Internally it was about the ascendancy of US air power and LeMay wanting to carve out a role for strategic bombing in an independent armed service…

… and yes, that opinion is partly based on the content of Hastings “Nemesis”

In response to the tag above, ‘why does Elf always ruin everything’; well, I don’t think that’s fair. All I’ve done is express my opinion, which I believe I’m entitled to do. I’ve expressed myself quite clearly, and feel I’ve made some valid points. Vindicated by the fact that at least one person understood what I was saying:

PeterPoddy – Member

You know, I think you might be right. Point well made.

If you read my posts carefully, you’ll find that I have no problem at all in seeing the Spitfire as a remarkable feat of design and engineering, and also a symbol of hope and bravery against tyranny and evil. So I hardly think I’ve ruined the thread. The fact that some folk have found my comments uncomfortable isn’t because they were designed to be insulting or abusive, but to question the opinions and attitudes of others. I do feel that War is too often glorified by people who have no concept of what it really means, and was merely trying to make the point that we should all consider the totality of war, and maybe not be so selective with our perspective of it.

I’ve aslo had no problem in expressing my views in an open and honest manner here. Yet some have chosen to use the Tags as a means of making snide comments about me.

The good thing about this forum, is that people can express themselves openly and honestly, but must also accept that their views may be challenged. I have no problem with this, but it seems that others do, sadly.

Hey ho.

Ultimately, Spitfire = good, in my book. I don’t feel the same way about other pieces of military hardware, because I don’t view them in the same context. I think I’m entitled to that view.

Dr Strangelove anyone?

Best engine noise ever.

Vindicated by the fact that at least one person understood what I was saying:

PeterPoddy – Member

You know, I think you might be right. Point well made.

I agree..

And why is elfs viewpoint any less important or interesting than the OP’s..? Or any other contributers to the thread..?

OP likes warplanes… posts a pic.. fair enough..
Another contributer is then reminded of a different warplane.. posts a pic.. fair enough..
Another contributer (elf) as a result is reminded of the horrors of war.. posts a pic.. also fair enough..

Elfinsafety – Member

I don’t feel the same way about other pieces of military hardware

But yet you get all excited at the sight of factory chimneys…… ’cause you reckon they are well cool.

Of course you don’t stop and think how these dark satanic workplaces have mercilessly exploited the toiling proletariat which have created vast profits for their greedy money-grabbing owners……..git 😐

I quite like the look of wind turbines.

That’s until I stop to think what a waste of resources they are.

…back to the original point, what you want is one of these:
http://www.wonderlandmodels.com/products/parkzone-supermarine-spitfire-mk2-rtf/
got one on my RC model flight sim, so spent a while last night doing split Ss (the classic Spit thing where they roll and dive) on that.

Reminds me of the time a bloke joined our cycling club and kept on about his flying club until we realized he meant toys like this !! couldn’t help laughing when he said it after that because we never told him we knew what sort of flying he meant!!

Still the nearest any of us is likely to get to flying a spit!

unless you are Ewan Mcgregor’s brother!!

Was the Vulcan bomber ever actually deployed in anger?

“Effin Scaley”, you are numpty of the highest order!

Considering your own opinions on things, Spongebob, I think I’ll take that as a compliment, thanks! 😀

It was in falklands.

DD, let’s not forget that they bombed Bristol… 🙁

DD, let’s not forget that they bombed Bristol…

I’m not Bristolian though 🙂

To be honest, with some of what’s been built here in the last five years, I wish they’d do it again. Starting with the Eastern European style apartment blocks at Canon’s Wharf (or whatever it’s called).

It’s basically the Supermarine Schneider Cup air race plane/design with 8 Brownings on it….. IIRC RJ Mitchell never got to see it go to war…..

I’m well aware of that. Correct me if I’m wrong, but Supermarine made sea planes did they not? And the Spit was based on one of those. so, it would have stayed as a gopping sea plane if not for Mitchell seeing the coming of WW2 and turning it into the Spitfire….

Thanks for proving my point. 🙂

Obviously the same family, but which do we all recognise, eh?

And I never said he did. 🙂

EDIT
Not sure what the plane above is, but the Spit was apparently based on the Supermarine S5. Try Googling that, but I’ll warn you, keep the eye bleach handy!

To be honest, with some of what’s been built here in the last five years, I wish they’d do it again.

Amen. 😈

You’re Irish, iirc? Unternehmen Grün – Göring wanted an airbase, so he did.

Good job it never came to that. 😀

DD, let’s not forget that they bombed Bristol…

They should bomb Ashton Gate

Did you not see the recent series of Coast on the Beeb noteeth? All the secret coding for Allied planes on the West Coast. And the “air corridor” that cut across “neutral” airspace from the SW of Ulster to the Atlantic ocean. We were far from “neutral”…so we were. 🙂

Did you not see the recent series of Coast on the Beeb noteeth?

Unless it’s a section presented by Alice Roberts, I just look at the pretty pictures. 😳

But yes, plenty of hush-hush assistance offered to the Allies, so it was.

Sidenote: I am always struck (metaphorically, of course) by that piece of rail sticking out from the churchyard of St Mary Redcliffe.

That float plane Spit was developed for the far eastern war effort. Lack of land, lots of water, by all accounts it flew alright.

My father was a fighter pilot during most of what is now referred to as the Cold War, and he and his colleagues had some pretty grim humour regarding it, that they pretty much kept to themselves, it wasn’t just restricted to the “bucket of sunshine” Joke. fair enough, they faced it not me, I’m sure it kept it all in some sort of perspective, or at the least allowed them to deal with it. Part of his equipment was an eye patch. This was so that when the bombs started going off, one eye could be sacrificed, and he’d still be able to fly…It was then and remains now, a very stupid idea.

He feels the same way expressed by Elfin… Spitfires: A measure of this country’s near miss. Vulcan: (any modern warplane really) Lessons unlearned by future generations from that conflict.

The piece of rail? Hmm…must look out for it. I notice the phallic stone statues have disappeared though.

this thread is completely mental….

everytime i see a copy of the mag i’ll be reminded of what complete bellends read it….

gargantuan bells

I’m jolly glad I’m not left-wing.

It must be absolutely exhausting being wrong about everything, all the time.

😯

Thanks to the OP, the Spitfire is indeed a fantastice sight, i remember seeing the Lancaster, Spitfire and Hurricane circling overhead London ready to do the flypast at the Queen mums funeral, hair standing up on neck moment. Living near the Black Mountains in Wales we get lots of fast jets coming through which is awesome but to see a relatively slow turbo prop from that era is something else. I actually get a buzz from watching the C130s fly in and out of the mountains but then i would been an Ex Para.

To Elfin whatever Fred, you should really accept posts such as this for what they are, a celebration of a bygone era that from which technical designs such as the Merlin engine emerged, war is not nice nobody says it is but to take the thread down into a chest poking debate is not clever and somewhat rude to the OP,IMOH. Maybe you should post on a forum where people want to listen to political rhetoric, me i like a light hearted trawl of the net with some banter when i finnish work, thats why i come here, i suspect your STW history will continue and you will be taking a break soon to cool down.

I haven’t really kept up with the thread, esp when it turned a bit silly.

That plane has a certain something about it, a combination of form and sound that makes it stand out, for me, from the huge number of planes I’ve seen.

Spitfire is special to me, in the same way I might appreciate a certain motor car, a yacht, a bicycle, or any other uncommon combination of Engineering and form, that marks out that item as being special.

Of course, I thought it would have gone without saying that the reason we have the Spitfire, is sad and unfortunate, as Anokdale says, no one is claiming that war is nice, or glorifying the ultimate purpose of the Spitfire, etc.

However, the purpose of machines such as the Spitfire today, for me, is to remind me of the sacrifice, and to send a message to us, from an earlier generation, that we should not wage war.
Sadly, it seems to be a flaw of the Human condition, that we appear not to learn by the sacrifice of those who went before us.

There are the normal load of I accuracy’s in this thread then.
First of the whole reason the spitfire was such a good fitter was its racing pedigree. And the us used atomic bombs in japan not nuclear there is a big difference between them and not just the amount of destruction caused.
Things like the spitfire and the merlin straight 12 will always be iconic in this country due to what happened but the reason it’s the spitfire that is iconic and not the hurricane is due to how it looks and it looks just right.
I’m with PP on that there are a few things in the last 100 odd years that will make you just stop and stare at them when you see them.

How are atomic bombs not nuclear?

Little Boy was a uranium fission bomb
Fat Man was a plutonium fission bomb.

Both nuclear fission

Unless you’re thinking of thermonuclear, which is of course a nuclear fusion device. Aka “hydrogen bomb”

Aka “hydrogen bomb”

And even those need a fission bomb to get them warmed up.