I’m getting itchy feet and after 4 years or so of loving my 575 think its time to replace it. Thoughts so far – AM/FR travel ie somewhere around 150mm so I can keep my current fork (Pace Fighter 20mm – with the appropriate reduced headset as needed) and I’ve though tof the bikes listed in the title but would appreciate any input from anyone who has owned any of them.

In honesty I find the Yeti a bit ‘sitting on’ rather than ‘sitting in’ and would rather the latter. It’d have to be able to do a bit of everything really from Swinley to CwmCarn, hence the AM/FR slant.

Any experience out there?

Thanks,

Mark

If you’re thinking of a non-DW-link 5-spot, I will be selling my almost immaculate (medium) frame very very soon.

It’s waiting to be cleaned, and then it’s ready to go!

Mail in my profile if you want to drop me a line.

I’d probably want a DW one but was more after any advice/experience anyone on here has especially with respect to the Nicolai. Thanks.

Yes, I’d be interested in the same comments… currently in between a butcher and a 5 spot dw build decision.

Take a look at the all new Ventana El Ciclon, 140/150mm easy adjust travel.

Only got experience of a 5 spot but the Bushings last forever, unlike the bearings on a SC.. my mates have been through loads of them.

I’ve a Horst Link 5-Spot, and in my expereince the difference between it and a DW Link version is minimal. A much bigger difference comes from fitting a better shock; I now run a coil DHX5 and it’s got a whole new lease of life.

The Nicolai AM is a superb all rounder.

Amazing attention to detail and all backed up by a transferable 5 year warranty.

Any dealings I have had with Nicolai have been a fantastic experience and I couldn’t fault the brand or the bike.

I think 150mm forks would be a bit short on the AM… The AC may be better suited to 150mm forks.

Have a look at the Nicolai section on MTBR for some expert advise.

Good Luck!

I ride an AM and of the other two guys I ride with, one has a 5 Spot the other has had one and now has an Ibis Mojo HD.

If I was being purely rationale about my choice now (i.e. buying with my head 100% and not letting the heart influence the decision) I would buy the Ibis Mojo HD. Given that you want it to do everything, what you really need are the angles, stifness and strength of the Nic but the weight of the Mojo HD and fortunately the Mojo HD also has the strength and stiffness to match (maybe even exceed) the Nicolai.

Having said that, rarely do any of us just buy with the head and so my real world decision would most likely still be the Nicolai AM, albeit I would be now ordering a custom one.

The Nic is fantastic but it is giving away almost 2lbs in frame weight to the Mojo HD and unless you spend silly money (like I have) to get it to a reasonable weight, you easily end up with a 33lb. With the Mojo HD, you don’t have to try hard to keep it under 30lbs and my mate’s build comes in at a shade over 27lbs.

The AM works best for trail riding in the second to longest travel setting in my view; it pedals a lot better and gives you more feedback from the trail, which unless the ground is very demanding (for trail riding) gives you more engagement. In its longest travel setting, the bike is reasonably happy on all out DH courses and feels more akin to something like the Intense Uzi than say an Orange Five (that is stating the obvious of course).

If you’re going to run it in the second longest setting (155mm) then the BB is a shade higher than you might want. My custom AM would lower it by around 15mm, which would then render the longer travel setting useless for trail riding as you’d be clipping you pedals all over the shop. But to my mind, that would be fine as I would reserve that setting just for uplift days.

The 5 Spot is not a bike I’ve personally ridden but my mates have spent a good deal of time on them. One didn’t like the steepness of the angles or the fact that it didn’t sit into its travel very well. He didn’t feel ‘in the bike’. The other guy still has his but his fitted an angle reducer headset to it to get it where he wants it to be. He’s also sub 65kgs and a very smooth rider so he doesn’t tend to stress bikes in the same way that lumps like me do! Thus the 5 Spot tends to remain more composed for him and he can get away with a lighter fork without compromising the integrity of the bike.

Hope those thoughts help.

Geetee – helps an awful lot. Thank you. What forks do you have on the AM?

Have a good look at the Butcher. Simple and strong. The suspension performance is good although someone here will right an A4 sheet on how crap it is compared to their expensive Leith Hill gnar machine.

With something like a Butcher you could put some nice solid kit on.

Maybe look at a Flux too? More than capable and can easily handle anything in the UK, especially trail centres and the likes of Swinley. The new Flux is probably as tough as the old RFX.

Isn’t the Butcher a Heckler but a pound heavier, with move moving parts?

I’m not just saying this because I own one, but my Mondraker Foxy feels more “in the bike” than anything else I’ve ridden.

Might be worth considering one (or the 160mm Dune), there are some good deals around at the moment.

Another Helius AM owner here. As Geetee and Kbrembo above have said the AM is one hell of a machine… probably too much so for many folk and I’m not sure it really fits in with a list including 5spots and Hecklers, in my opinion it’s much more bike then either (check out the Nicolai all mountain trial film to see what I mean).

Whether you need as much bike as an AM is up to you? The AM is 160mm travel in the longest setting and designed for 160/170mm forks such as Fox 36/Lyrik, which is longer than a 150mm fork such as a Revelation or your Fighter – thats not to say you can’t fit a 150mm… Some folk over on the MTBR forum have, and I have a 150 Rev on another bike which I will pop across to the Helius at some point soon. I think it will work great. My helius is pretty slacked out with the 36’s on so dropping the front will I think be fine, dropping the BB will also be fine (Ignore TLR) – I may loose some of the gonzo doonhall bombproof feeling… but I can live with that unless I am going gonzo doonhalling.
As Geetee says to get below 30lbs with AM kit will take some doing as it’s a solidly built frame – Mine is 32lbs with Hammerschmizzle and air shock/forks (but NO CARBON).
I’ve also had a quick shot on a MoJo HD and it was noticably light and felt good… would I give up my AM for one is a tough call? I love the look of the AM and the way it works, I like that I can play with the travel etc and as Geetee has said I sometimes run it in the other settings depending on the shock I am running (Probably again with the 150mm fork on but who knows?)
I see bikes as a long term thing, I’m really happy with my AM after a year but there are always little experiments and tweaks to make to improve things, it’s one of the joys of biking.

You can tell I’m an engineer can’t you 🙄

If I was buying now… I think where and how I ride justifys the AM but it’s a close run thing with moderm 150mm bikes being almost as capable (Remedy/Foxy)… if your only ever going to run 150mm forks on it look at the AC rather than the AM… but if you plan to bung 160/170/180mm forks and doing big drops while chasing stormtroopers in the Alps/mountains then the AM is a fine tool.

The forks an AM will work with is a crucial point. I’ve really tried to make it work with a 150mm 32mm stanchion fork including altering the geometry with a custom shock shuttle from Nicolai. My AM has the older steeper geometry which is why to make it work I needed to slacken things off a little before then dropping the front end. The newer AM has a slacker front so it may well cope better with a shorter fork but still the 32mm forks don’t suit it’s character. It will sort of work but it will be a compromise.
I think the best all round set up is 155mm at the back and a light 35/36mm fork up front. Actually I think having that fork set to 150mm rather than 160mm or 170mm works better for average trail riding.
The thing the AM does best is get out of the way and let you just ride. It’s very neutral and doesn’t have any odd quirks or strange habits. The suspension just works it doesn’t add it’s own character. It’s not the most compliant over big square edge hits, perhaps because the axle path isn’t as reward as other designs but it doesn’t slow you down and it’s so easy to get on with.
As I said if making the decision over I would still buy one over a mojo because I’m not through with my love affair for the brand just yet. The Mojo may tick more boxes in better ways but it’s still not appealing to the heart (I know I sound like Jeremy Clarkson but there you go).

My AM has the slack geo and the longer shock option hence thinking the 150mm Rev fork will work… I also have a 1.5 headtube and the Rev’s are 1-1/8″ so I have angleset options if I think it’s worth the effort.

2lbs Geetee over a Mojo HD, is the MOJO HD 2.1kgs, thats lighter than My Titus X carbon xc racebike??

My Helius AM is 3.1kg frame, I guess that is without shock tho so 3.3kg with shock.

My Nic is now 32.5 with dropper post, hammerschmidt and 160’s with only a carbon bar, running DH tyres, I think I could drop that below 30 with a normal double ring and no dropper but I guess the same applies to the HD.

For me the AM is so versatile and totally bullet proof, I have no worries about riding it on anything. The second thing for me is the stiffness and accuracy of the rear, something I struggle with on other FS bikes. I havent tried a Mojo but that is a standout of the Nic AM which translates to very accurate steering and as mentioned leaves you to just ride and almost forget about the bike, a really nice feeling.

I find the biggest influence on how ‘light’ a bike feels as opposed to the useless car park static lift, is the wheels and tyres, and where the weight sits, the HS on my bike is in the right place and doesn’t affect how the bike feels.

Overall I have absolute faith in the Nic and if I had to change would buy another tomorrow, although maybe with a few tweeks to allow flexibility with headangle and suspension choice. That is the beauty of a Nic…

Another Nicolai AM here. Big bike in all respects but huge flexibility. With some swapping of components I can ride it 31lbs on trailcentre trails (although would say I’m overbiked for that, so have a CC which I ride 75% of the time on these trails) and with some DH tyres and a chain device I’m just back from 2 weeks in Les Gets riding DH trails and XC. Performs flawlessly and is indestructible IMO. Beautiful piece of machinery – it was my first Nic and led to another and now I’m hankering after a hardtail.

Another plus point IMO – in 2 weeks in Les Gets/Morzine I saw thousands of other bikes, and only 1 other Nicolai and that was a full on M-Pire. Stands out a bit.

Have to say I’m more and more inclined to the AM. Sounds like the fighters will be ok for now until I upgrade the forks (and I’d go to 160 then) and the does it all factor is important. I did think of the AC but it’d be at its maximum travel at 150mm. Mojo hd is not one I’d thought of but I think the nix looks nicer and I’ve done the whole strange looking frame thing with the yeti and I think the nic would be a bit cheaper! Now to find somewhere to test ride one!

The 2011 5 spot angles are spot on unlike the 2010. The suspension takes some getting used to though (depends what you’re coming from I spose).
I’d wait for the user reviews and maybe demo the Yeti SB-66 before buying anything personally.

If your near Surrey or London you can swing a leg over mine. It’s xl though with a medium seat tube. Good for people over 5.10

Nothing to add to what chainline has said. I wouldn’t sell mine for anything and that’s saying something.

Have you considered a Transition Covert? I know I would.

Ianpinder – may take you up on that; in laws live near Swinley.

It would be my pleasure.

Ditto Ian’s comments about test riding an AM. Mine is a large but with a small ST. I’m in Horsham West Sussex.

I had the 08 Yeti 575 and I’d agree that you really do sit “on” it rather than in. I’ve also had 2 HL 5 Spots and the best was the one with the DHX coil shock, very very plush and a nice ride. But – I’ve now got a DW Link 5 Spot and although only had the briefest of rides I can say for definite it pedals better than the HL models and it’s also really plush. However I’ll update how I get on with it later butI can say hand on heart, the DW model does seem a better bike.

I ride 09 AM (i.e. not tghe latest slacker angles) and simply love it. It’s mated with a heavy duty build and it’s just loads of fun. Wotan 160 forks (great since I can drop the ride height at a flick of a lever down to 120 to improve climbing) big fat conti rubber queens and a droper seatpost it currently runs at 35lb – but I wouldn’t lighten it for the world…. it’s just such fun.

(and is the fun-yang so the lightweight bling-ying of my main bike)

MisterT – we’re leading parallel lives. Same forks, tyres, dropper and older angles!

Geetee, thank you too! Very kind of you and Ian to offer and lucky for me you are both close (I live in Lewes so Horsham is quite easy for me!) do you fancy a ride tomorrow?! I think you’d be closer to my size (I’m 5’10”) than Ian?

Infidel sure that would be awesome. Drop me a mail and we can set it up. I have a pass to ride in the morning. I usually ride around the Surrey Hills, Leith, Holmburry and Pitch. I’m presuming you do to.

Also let me know how much you weigh so I can think about the set up.

Have you contemplated an Orange Five?

*ducks*

dazzlingboy – we’re leading parallel lives. Same forks, tyres, dropper and older angles!

😆

tastic!

SC Butcher owner, since August last year.

I have ridden Swinley quite a few times over the years on different bikes, including the Butcher. Its also been to the Alps twice (DH one holiday, XC the other) and done quite a few Wales trips.

Its the RP23 version with the shock tuned by TF, I was originally running Fox 36 160mm Floats on the front, now running Marzocchi 55RC3’s, again 160mm forks. KS dropper post, short stem and single ring, so mine is on the more ‘fun’ side of the build options.

Got to say I love it. The angles and sizing of the frame are just bang on for me (its an XL, im 6’2″, they generally come up a bit small) and the back end just gets on with its job nicely. It is a really fun ride but likes a little bit of agression thrown at it and its hugely confidence and speed inspiring. Paint and decals holding up well so far.

On the downside, the rear axle/ dropout would benefit from having a bolt-through option or wider spacing than 135mm for this type of bike, a standard ‘open’ dropout seems a little simplistic compared to other manufacturers options.

All told, i would recommend it, but it does seem to work well as an agressive all mountain bike, not sure a lighter build with smaller forks would be as satisfying?

Good luck, its a nice list of bikes to choose from so i’m pretty sure you will be happy whatever!