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  • Nick Craig on how to stay fast as you age on You Tube
  • footflaps
    Full Member

    I enjoyed the video and he’s a very likeable bloke. But my main take home message seemed to be that talented riders are talented.

    +1

    Nick Craig is a genetic freak of nature – born with a huge aerobic engine. He was and always will be an Elite rider, regardless of whether he takes up smoking 60 B&H a day or training consistently.

    All you can really learn from that is to be born with the right genes….

    13thfloormonk
    Full Member

    1hr 10 min this morning, heartrate was suspiciously low but I think I was in the conversational intensity again, every few minutes would try reading off the wee elevation chart my POV video of the Stelvio Pass handily provided, could read it fine but had to concentrate on breathing, actually lowered my ‘power’ a wee bit.

    Tried a blast of ‘5 minutes almost FTP’ at the end, surprisingly tough although I hadn’t really mentally prepared myself for it and was pretty hungry as had been riding fasted. Will try it again next time.

    thestabiliser
    Free Member

    I dunno, i think the underlying ethos was good. Do stuff cos you like it – dont obsess about the numbers. Even Nick Craig had to admit he was no Frischnecht so i find it pretty easy to come to terms with never being Nick Craig ;P.

    snotrag
    Full Member

    All this Zone 2 this, Zone 2 that…

    Where might one go to work out what the heck you are talking about and how to measure it?

    footflaps
    Full Member

    Do stuff cos you like it – dont obsess about the numbers.

    Which is great if you want to enjoy riding, but if you’re, say a mid pack sport rider, trying to get to Expert or aspiring to scrape into Elite one day, then you’re going to have to train like a bastard for years and then you might just scrape into the lower echelons for a year or two before giving up disillusioned (as everyone around you has better genes).

    Whereas he can ‘mess about a bit’ and still rock up at the NPS and come in the top 5….

    thestabiliser
    Free Member

    Zone 2 = steady away, lad

    BadlyWiredDog
    Full Member

    Smooth, effortless, a few words of encouragement from him and he was gone.

    HOW?!

    He actually hovers around an inch above the ground. I once watched him float up one of the rocky, slabby bits on the Hayfield side of Jacob’s like some sort of weightless hologram. He was incredibly, preternaturally smooth and barely even breathing. I don’t believe he is human 🙂

    thestabiliser
    Free Member

    The thing wasnt about how to become a better rider though it was about staying fit while getting older

    theotherjonv
    Full Member

    Not NC, but I did a horribly wet Mayhem at Eastnor where you had to climb the muddy, rutted landrover track. Everyone was walking, even those that could ride it were being baulked by the walkers. Except Tinker Juarez, who floated up, and then when held up by someone, did a trackstand, side hop into the rut, few pedal strokes and then bunny hop back up onto the ridge in the middle. While thanking and encouraging all around him.

    IHN
    Full Member

    Where might one go to work out what the heck you are talking about and how to measure it?

    If you can hold a conversation, just, or, as someone else put it, if you were on the phone and the person on the other end could tell you were exercising, that’s the Z2 training zone.

    theotherjonv
    Full Member

    Where might one go to work out what the heck you are talking about and how to measure it?

    https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=zone+2+riding

    kerley
    Free Member

    I found that I naturally rode 80% of the time in zone 2. I always use Strava to log my rides and look at the data when I get home so got a chest HR belt a few months back and used it for about 20 rides. Every single ride had me in zone 2 for at least 80% of the time. So good enough for me to know I don’t need to measure it and just carry on riding as I was.

    theotherjonv
    Full Member

    I ride to heart rate and find that most of mine is tempo or threshold. Recent flattish ride with a couple of significant hills to account for the Z5! Just under 3 hours overall, so about 10 mins in Z5. I also think I’ve got my Z5 set a little low, cos that’s hard / painful but not absolute max sprint uphill effort, OTOH I’m nearly 100kg and 53 and just keeping going uphill once gradient goes into double digits is substantial effort.

    Z1 – 10%

    Z2- 20%

    Z3 – 40%

    Z4 – 25%

    Z5 – 5%

    but that’s mainly because I ride at groups at edge of my ability and generally lead them, so often sat on the front. Also explains why I’m generally **** by the end of the ride…..

    Z2 – for me HR between about 105 and 130 seems silly easy. But, maybe I should do more of it.

    sirromj
    Full Member

    I’m kinda confused by these two threads as my interpretation of HR Z2 from when I was marginally interested in these things definitely didn’t include heart rates in the 150s. Seems like Z2 has lots of different meanings to people. I used to find it difficult to remain in Z2 uphill or even when I started to have fun on a trail, it required conscious effort to lay off the power. Didn’t do many long Z2 rides however, but can remember being tired by the end of them. Wasn’t serious training.

    Edit: like the numbers jonv posted above.

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    Except Tinker Juarez, who floated up, and then when held up by someone, did a trackstand, side hop into the rut, few pedal strokes and then bunny hop back up onto the ridge in the middle. While thanking and encouraging all around him

    I remember doing the solo cat the year he one, bomb hole at the end of the lab after 22 hours or so I could just about hold onto the handlebars and hope not to crash, he came through with big air crossed up one handed!!

    john_l
    Full Member

    That year was particularly grim!

    theotherjonv
    Full Member

    My max HR is about 165-170, have not tested for a while. So for me Z2 is ‘officially’ between 100-120, but I can get that doing my shoes up before going out (mind, that also gets me out of breath)

    mos
    Full Member

    Just watched that. Apparently he feels like he’s done something when he does an ‘A’ pace partner ride for an hour! 4.2w/k, I can’t manage that in a 20 min crit city race!

    slowoldman
    Full Member

    Where might one go to work out what the heck you are talking about and how to measure it?

    You could watch this.

    Or check out British Cycling’s blurb on training and zones starting here.

    Superficial
    Free Member

    I’m kinda confused by these two threads as my interpretation of HR Z2 from when I was marginally interested in these things definitely didn’t include heart rates in the 150s.

    Indeed. I’d always believed Zone 2 was just a fraction of your Max HR – that’s what my Garmin seemed to suggest when I set it up a few years ago. But I learnt last week (from another GCN video) that Zone 2 is actually a fair bit more complex than that and probably not best measured with HR. It’s measurable in lab but a reasonable estimate is if you can chat away while riding at that intensity, but have some difficulty finishing long sentences. For me that is a surprisingly high HR, often more than 150 as you say.

    EDIT: Link removed – it’s the same one just posted immediately above.

    It’s also nice because it gives me an excuse to commute in a more relaxing manner, rather than treat it like a TT.

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    It’s also nice because it gives me an excuse to commute in a more relaxing manner, rather than treat it like a TT.

    Interesting point worth picking up on – most people ride far too hard on their “easy” rides and not hard enough on their “interval” bits which results in you always going around at Z3/4 without the ability to build the endurance in Z2 or develop the high end in Z5.

    A mate did RideLondon based entirely off commuting and crit races – he’d done no long rides whatsoever. His week would be steady away commutes with some crit races in the evenings – Crystal Palace, Lee Valley and Hillingdon usually, sometimes only one of them, sometimes 2-3 in a week.

    He absolutely smashed RL, under 4hrs and it was entirely off his ability to go into the red for short periods and then just sit there at Z2 and recover. His bunch racing skills will also have played a part, it allowed him to just sit in the front group doing Z2, go deep on the hills and then recover again.

    barrysh1tpeas
    Full Member

    I found, using RPE and the conversation test, it’s around 145bpm for me.

    My zone 2 according to BC is 115-141bpm. So being just slighly above that seems about right if you are intending to work at the limit/aerobic threshold.

    So if I’m doing zone 2 for an hour, I’m trying to keep it around 138-144bpm. Feels ridiculously easy to start, after an hour, breathing remains fine, but you can start to feel it slightly in the legs

    kerley
    Free Member

    Never going above zone 2 would feel easy but if I remember the video was referring to majority of time in zone 2 so you can still go above it for say 20% of the time.

    barrysh1tpeas
    Full Member

    No, I think if you go above z2 for that long, you ruin the session.

    80/20 is the sessions, not the time split. If you were lucky and could fit in 5 rides per week. 1 ride would be fast/hard. The other 4 would be all zone 1 or 2.

    kerley
    Free Member

    Okay, must have not been paying attention when watching it. A total ride in zone 2 woudld not be possible for me as I don’t have gears and getting up some of the hills would mean walking up…

    nickc
    Full Member

    When I’ve done Z2 stuff in the past, I’ve walked up hills before. 👍

    mos
    Full Member

    I think (may be wrong here) but the benefit of Z2 is that it still leaves you enough energy to then do the intensity on top, not that a solid 4 hr Z2 ride will illicit a greater aerobic adaptation that an unstructured 4 hr ride, just that you can probably hit higher numbers when doing some intervals a day or 2 later.

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    No, I think if you go above z2 for that long, you ruin the session.

    Roughly 1 min over Z2 (depending on which other zone your venture into, higher = shorter) needs 35 mins to recover back into Z2 mitochondrial development due to lactic shuttling*

    *Approx and I think thats right. You can google the real stats.

    BadlyWiredDog
    Full Member

    I’m starting to wish I’d bought shares in zone 2 when they were still affordable…

    Superficial
    Free Member

    A mate did RideLondon based entirely off commuting and crit races

    Yeah I’ve found commuting is pretty great for base. And then techy MTB rides for me seem to be a mix of easy stuff and then techy climbs where I’m really on the limit which are basically max HR intervals.

    I’ve definitely lost some top-end fitness from doing less MTB recently.

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    A mate did RideLondon based entirely off commuting and crit races

    Unless he was pushing the front end, thats probably the easiest 100m he’ll ever do. Its very flat in the main, had very smooth roads at the start and end and with so many riders there’s a draft to be had at every opportunity.

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    I’m starting to wish I’d bought shares in zone 2 when they were still affordable…

    😀😀😀😄

    And Craig says just go out and ride our bikes and then the fun sponges arrive to tell us are not doing zone whatever properly

    slowoldman
    Full Member

    He also says do 80% in Zone 1 touching Zone 2. That’s lower than the STW fun sponges.

    kerley
    Free Member

    He clearly say s lots of stuff and it is not always consistent but the key things he says for me are that as you age you have a a lower ability for big bursts of power but can ride a similar overall speed but recovery times are longer after the ride. All things that I have found.

    john_l
    Full Member

    He also says do 80% in Zone 1 touching Zone 2. That’s lower than the STW fun sponges.

    He’s talking about polarised zones, so z1 includes z2 and a bit of z3.

    Confused yet?

    barrysh1tpeas
    Full Member

    That’s if you’re using the 3 zone model, rather than the 5 or 7 zone model. Zone 1 (3 zone) would finish just above zone 2 (5 or 7 zone).

    Zones

    barrysh1tpeas
    Full Member

    Aerobic threshold/lower threshold is just above the top of traditional zone 2. You need to be below this threshold, but close to it. Which makes sense.

    Which is actually a nice place to be training in when you find it (conversation test). It’s not piss easy, but not tempo.

    robola
    Full Member

    This reminds me of a fell running club I used to run for. I was nowhere near the elites but I was fairly decent at local level (top 10%). I only ran a couple of times a week but I had dogs and consistently walked up hill every day. Ideal aerobic base for fell running. People couldn’t understand why I was quick off the back of so little running, but the reality is that it is hard to fell run at zone 2. The elite guys did loads of extra, tedious, low intensity miles.

Viewing 38 posts - 41 through 78 (of 78 total)

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