My wife is a medium level manager in the NHS – 8A if that means anything to you.

She is very stressed with:
1) her immediate boss is a total waste of space, skiving, incompetant …
2) There is turmoil/disorganisation of moving/splitting her staff amongst different financial groups, not helped by ‘1’
3) the effect of this on her staff, the service & her

She has talked to & requested a meet ith her boss’s boss who is aware to some degree but not fully of all the issues.

Should I just be there for her or should I be more proactive & perhaps email the boss’s boss to say how stressed she is.

be there for her and definitely DO NOT contact her boss’s boss yourself.

Indeed, that would be a complete no no.

Don’t contact her boss! Two options as far as I can see.

Either way she needs to take a week off, no phone no emails.

1) She needs to write a detailed factual email of her issues. Give examples of the problems and the effects that they are having on the business, the staff and her. Make sure it’s formal, non emotional, and comes across as a statement of fact. Make Send it to her bosses boss and the HR manager. She needs to recognise this may get worse before it gets better…

2) she needs to get out ASAP.

Apologies if this comes across as no very sympathetic but:

1) Not specific to the NHS, could happen to anyone

2) See 1

3) Surely if her job is as you describe its her job to managed that, and your penultimate sentence seems to be a start of the process?

If she’s not coping, she either needs some management advice specific to her situation or could consider a change in role?  In addition, perhaps you could help her manage her stress, rather than attempt to be involved in her job?

In my recent experience as a customer, the NHS is dysfunctional and the service you receive may be good, bad or none existence and which is purely chance.

Regards being a manager in a dysfunctional organisation, it has stress but so does being manager in well performing one and she will need to develop strategies to deal with that, she should approach her manager if she feels the relationship is good enough, if not someone else and if not the third party learn to deal with it or leave.

You should definitely not contact anyone, unless you think her health is in immediate danger and then it should probably be her GP.

Good luck sorting the prob.

How long has she been in post?

Write everything down, who said what, when etc. Always help to have contemporaneously taken notes when it comes to the blame game 🙁

I’m an 8a NHS management drone and I cannot imagine meeting my 8c and them saying ‘it seems MrsB has emailed me, as you’re a bit stressed and unhappy’. I would be offering to get my own coat.

I’m assuming she’s had it out with the 8b, and they are fully aware of all your wife’s issues?

The NHS is suffering from the same traditional British managerial incompetence that wrecked so many of our industries in the 70s and 80s. My BIL retired last year as Chief Exc. of a big NHS hospital. The stress on him was unbelievable but the hospital’s finances were in the black when he left. His successor appointed a load of middle managers and engaged a management consultancy firm at a cost of around £1 million and lo and behold, the hospital is now £13 million in the red and being placed under “special measures”. Thus the incompetence of one manager has wrecked what was a well-run hospital.

I’ve been in a similar position. I saw 2 options:

1) Fight to fix it by doing all of the above – documented examples, involving boss’s boss, finding a collective voice for the team as ‘our’ voice is stronger than ‘my’ voice

2) Take control of the personal situation by leaving. Just the act of looking can feel like you’re taking control a bit.

One thing I’ve learned over time is to involve the team and tell them how you’re feeling. Otherwise it can be a really isolating experience.

FWIW, I did 1) for some time with limited success and eventually did 2)

Is she a nurse ?  In which case a step back down the ladder could be best.  sounds to me like promoted beyond her abilities – very common in the NHS ( I know – I have been there)  There will be stress counselling services available in the NHS via  occupational health.  She needs to look after herself first

Yes she needs to take it to her boss in writing – but this will make her very unpopular with the bosses as they do not want to hear bad news and her chance of support from that direction is very low IMO

Its her job to manage the change / difficult workplace environment

DO NOT CONTACT HER BOSS

Yeah Contact Her Boss.

Seems like I’m the only one offering the opposing view..

Tell him/her that he/she is a waste of NHS money, that they should pull their finger out and see tonit that your wife (name her) is treated fairly..

Post pics.

One other point.  Is she working over her hours?  If so stop immediately and never take work home.  Among some managers there is a culture of presentism whereby they feel they have to be at work all the time and do everything.

I’m with Bikebuoy on this one. Offer to meet him in the car park to discuss further.
What could possibly go wrong?
Definite pics.

sounds to me like promoted beyond her abilities

Bases on the op’s post? Really? Does it even say she’s a nurse?

I equally believe she could be very competent, but struggling in a difficult post with difficult people.

Perhaps you need to stop looking in the mirror?

OP – how would you feel if your wife contacted your bosses boss and said how you were feeling about your workplace, your immediate boss etc?

OP before I say too much is this a Trust roughly in the north east ?

The circumstances sound very familiar to what I have endured

theboatman – its very common in the NHS.  Take someone good at a job and promote them, don’t train them further for the different roles and they struggle.

Tjagain – it is in many industries, but to imply that is the position of the op’s wife without any information is crass and insulting. But crack on.

This sadly, is quite common in the NHS. Those who move from roles with a direct clinical flavour such as Modern Matron (8a) into higher supervisory roles are often motivated by a desperate desire to get away from the stresses of the clinical environment rather than a talent or desire for management.

The NHS is chronically under-managed, both by promoting people who have no real drive for management and failing to train them, and failing to recruit real management talent because of the public sector pay structures.

Only your wife can know whether the 8c manager is actually willing or able to intervene – there is nothing you can do except be supportive outside the workplace. She has my sympathy, but sometimes a change of environment/team or trust may be the only way to hit the reset button.

Don’t email, support.

My wife, and 3 children ALL work in the NHS for various hospitals at various levels. My wife and youngest are also union reps and if your wife is a nurse/midwife she should be contacting her RCN/RCM rep to talk through the options.

Your wifes situation is very common. Lack of investment both in staff and training plus constant changes means massive pressure. All you can do is support her and make sure you are doing more than your fair share of jobs. The rest will work out one way or another.

0Ps wifes experience mirrors my experience of working for the NHS. It went from being patient focused to money focused & managers just looking out for themselves & those staff who worked with their noses up the managers backside. Going above the manager did no good at all. It will just cause more stress, i changed career after 14 years because of it. Life is much much to short to put up with all that.

I know of nhs finance managers sitting under desks crying. It’s a shambles financially at our place so we have external consultants coming in, their costs are horrific. Until the whole health and social care system is overhauled an treated as one system without politically set goalposts constantly moving I can’t see it changing, the alternative is outsourcing and privatisation.
Your wife is paid to sort issues, if she can’t she may need to look elsewhere, hope it works out.
Yours, band 6 skivvy.

“theboatman

Tjagain – it is in many industries, but to imply that is the position of the op’s wife without any information is crass and insulting. But crack on”.

Yup – I’ll apologise – the post came over not in the way intended obviously.  I meant no fault on her behalf.  So sorry  OP – not intended to be crass and insulting.

To add context to my position, mine was a non clinical role and a secondment to a higher grade under the direction of an 8c.

There was no leadership, conflicting direction, massive levels of bullshit, lack of their knowledge, spurious meetings in diaries ie no one knew where the 8c was. Yet the 8c would turn up to senior level meetings and be brilliant at bull and take the credit for all the work his team were doing.

I spoke in confidence to HR with valid concerns and they said they would speak to the 8c’s line manager (a director) who is known for being just as incompetent. Now I’m back in my old role I miss the work but not the person.

Unfortunately my only advice is get out but the pressure/ stress gets to her too much

2 people I know who used to work for the 8c got out on secondment and wouldn’t go back they left the Trust because the 8c was that bad

be there for her and definitely DO NOT contact her boss’s boss yourself.

Not read any other replies but this to Infinity and Beyond!!!!!!!!

OP – Can you wife take a step down to Band 7 and just focus on clinical work as much as possible?

A few practical things

Ensure everything has a paper trail – email is good.  Any face to face meetings with her boss follow up with an email ” re meeting 1/1/18  My understanding is this was agreed – is that your understanding”

Ask her boss to set priorities for her

When more work is piled on ask boss which of the previous tasks are now low priority and can be dropped

Do not work over contracted hours

I’m band 6 and do stuff now that the lab management would have been doing a few years ago.  It’s got nothing to do with being promoted beyond abilities,  I haven’t been promoted since qualifying for my current role 17 years ago. We just get more tasks assigned to us with very little appropriate /adequate training.

OP here.

Thanks all.

teaboy has it nailed I think.
No this is north West – not north east & a small PAM team not nursing.

The issues are very complex – as is always the case.
But she is an experienced manager, definitely not promoted beyond.
Her stress is coming from seeing a good service being ripped apart & her immediate boss is not supporting the service.

she is close to retirement anyway ~2 years but then there is all the NHS changing pension crap to look at, but leaving ASAP is definitely on the cars

Thanks again all, appreciated

Until the whole health and social care system is overhauled an treated as one system without politically set goalposts constantly moving I can’t see it changing,

Far too rational and sensible, it’ll never work!!! 😉

Madbill – that close to retirement I would be seriously considering going off sick with stress, use up her sickpay and then retire on grounds of ill health. With two years to go until retirement she should be unnafected by the latest round of changes – I have 3 years and I am OK

Nothing is worth that stress

if that is the way people in the NHS think then it really doesn’t have much hope .
Not a dig at you TJ by the way .

Ramsey – when yo have put your working life into something and the politicians shaft you devaluing the pension you have paid for for 35+ years and you are crumbling under stress because of political decisions then sometimes its time to look after number one.

Sounds to me like it would be quite legitimate for the OPs wife to go off sick with stress and then seamlessly retire from sickleave

Has she stopped to think about why the manager above acts the way they do?  It is very rare for someone to want to do a rubbish job.  Possibly too they are suffering a bunch of stress / lack of support / watching something collapse despite efforts and basically given up?

How is your wife’s stress manifesting itself?  Physically?  Is she breaking down in the office?  How long are we talking about?  Any other factors, or is it really just work?

The ‘go off with stress’ mentality and then get retired is just sticking it to the taxpayer, management won’t care as it won’t impact them – it is a completely selfish attitude which surprises me from people who work in the NHS

DT78

You misinterpret me.

Sounds like she is in a position where going off sick with stress is quite legitimate.  Once you have gone off with stress you gain perspective and going back to the same job becomes almost impossible as the stressors are still there.  Given the sort of role she has alternative posts would be very hard to find.  Thus taking your retirement early once the avenues for removing the stressors are exhausted is perfectly reasonable.  It takes a few months to work thru the system for staff with stress

I am not suggesting she works her ticket as it were but that she stops putting the service first and puts herself first.

“You misinterpret me.”

I’m not so sure he does. NHS Culture is pretty much, if I problem is too difficult just brush it under the carpet.

In private land if someone is bad / incompetent it is dealt with (on the whole) the NHS way is just if you are lucky to get them sideways moved or at worst just bury your head in the sand.

I genuinely understands OP’s wife stress in the situation. But there are 2 ways to deal with it. 1. Solve the situation 2. run away.

Number 2 is the NHS way.

Maybe the answer is to go off sick, but only after trying to resolve the issue.

“It is very rare for someone to want to do a rubbish job.”

Ah but the NHS does have people who are incompetent at their grade, and the culture protects them

May not be the case, but I know some people who are just predisposed to stressing about work, whatever that job may be, stressful or not, is she in this category? If so then it’s a tough one, as there is no easy choice. If she has only started to feel like this in this particular role then the way to fix is easier – Go through the proper channels ie immediate line manager, then up the chain if no success, and if need be, walk away.

Life is too short for work to be draining life.

‘Ah but the NHS does have people who are incompetent at their grade, and the culture protects them’

Not just the NHS by the way, it’s just visible in public bodies as most of us have to deal with them at some point. The private sector is every bit as bad, at least.

My wife works for the NHS and is in a similar position to your wife, i tell her to stop whinging and keep taking the money as it’s more than twice as much as i’ve ever earned, with a pension i could only dream of.