New (to me) car.. Petrol or Diesel??

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  • New (to me) car.. Petrol or Diesel??
  • carlos
    Member

    Looking at changing the current Golf mk6 1.4 TSI, 160bhp petrol, DSG and looking for similar but newer.

    I’ve seen a couple of 2014 plate mk7, 2.0 160bhp DSG diesels with lowish mileage and good spec, but having not owned a diesel before I’m a bit unsure if its for me. Generally its for transporting me and the bike about 3 or 4 times a week (20 – 30 miles each way), trips to Wales etc.. prob 1 -2 times a month, office is about 4 mile from home and I use it for visiting sites in the NW couple of times a month (I’m in Cheshire), I’d say I do over 15k miles a year

    Petrol car I’ve seen is similar, £2k cheaper, not quite as good a spec, manual, few more miles but is 2 years older at 2012

    What’s the general views on Diesels these days?? putting aside the VW emissions palava

    Am I likely to see the cost difference in fuel saving over say.. 4 years. Given that diesel is always going to be more expansive but you get more miles?

    Cheers
    Carlos

    Trimix
    Member

    Petrol. Sooner or later you will probably find it hard to take a Diesel into town, or have to pay a charge for it.

    Onzadog
    Member

    Rightly or wrongly, it does seem that diesel is currently being demonised.

    If you’re planning on keeping it a long while, I’d go petrol.

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    I asked the same question on my recent what car thread.

    Consensus seemed to be that many people were still happily running diesel.

    Seems odd to demonise something that requires less refining, gives better mpg, and has lower CO2 emissions. Obviously NOX emissions etc means that’s not the full story, but if you are using it for longer journeys and not using it in the stop-start traffic of a big city then it doesn’t seem worse than petrol to me.

    andy8442
    Member

    Soley based on the type of use, I’d go petrol. If you said you where doing 15K+ a year and only keeping it for a couple of years, then a diesel. But you’re not, so petrol it is.

    Premier Icon timmys
    Subscriber

    If you go to the office 4 miles away most days then that would be enough to knacker* a diesel irrespective of total mileage or reasonably frequent longer trips.

    *slight exaggeration, but potentially big-ish bills and likely much lower mpg than you would be hoping for due to forced DPF re-gens.

    Sui
    Member

    IS the Golf a Euro 6d compliant motor? if so, no towns will be able introduce penalities for quite some time, if not then maybe petrol you’re right on the cusp (exception of your 4 mile trips, of which as long as it gets a good run after a few of the trips it will be fine).

    ref the whole emissions issue arouund nox there is an interesting article here;

    https://airqualitynews.com/2019/03/27/real-world-emissions-in-the-london-ulez/

    ADAC also published a report, though you’ll need to be a subscriber to get to it in full, but a snippet is here; INterstingly, the 2.0diesel from BMW (B47 i think) is less polluting than a number of gasoline engines. Also interstingly (not shown cos i cant share the graph), the Honda 1.6CDTI is bloody aweful!!

    Tests by Germany’s ADAC (Allgemeine Deutsche Automobil-Club) showed that new Euro 6c and Euro
    6d-TEMP diesel models produce NOx emissions well below the applicable regulatory limits. Twenty-six Euro 6c/d-TEMP vehicles, including diesel and gasoline models, were tested on the road using the Real Driving Emissions (RDE) procedure. NOx mission from all vehicles were significantly lower than the RDE NOx emission limits (168 mg/km for diesel; 126 mg/km for gasoline).

    NOx emissions from Euro 6c/d-TEMP vehicles in RDE testing (Benzin = gasoline; source: ADAC) RDE NOx emissions from nearly all vehicles were also below the 80 mg/km WLTC limit. The only exception was the 1.6 i-DTEC Honda Civic, which produced NOx above 80 mg/km, but still comfortably below the regulatory RDE limit of 168 mg/km. RDE testing and emission limits are applicable to Euro 6d vehicles. The limits are determined by multiplying the applicable WLTC NOx limit by a conformity factor (CF). Effective from September 2017 for new models and from September 2019 for all new vehicles, CF = 2.1 (Euro 6d-TEMP). Effective from January 2020 for new models and from January 2021 for all new vehicles, the CF is lowered to 1.43 (Euro 6d final).

    Low Temperature Results.
    NOx emissions from Euro 6d vehicles are typically controlled using urea-
    SCR technology. ADAC also tested six Euro 6d-TEMP diesel vehicles at low ambient temperature conditions, to verify the effectiveness of SCR at low temperatures. The vehicles were tested on the road using the RDE procedure, at ambient temperatures ranging from -0.4°C to 7.9°C.

    Low temperature NOx emissions measured from the tested diesels ranged from the ultra-low level of 1mg/km (two vehicles) to 56 mg/km. One gasoline car was also tested, producing 15 mg/km of NOx. All of the results were well below the respective RDE limits, as well as the WLTC values.

    The ADAC results suggest that the introduction of the RDE testing requirements, in combination with other recent regulatory changes, may have finally solved the problem of high in-use NOx emissions that troubled European diesel cars for nearly two decades, culminating in the Volkswagen emission scandal.

    Particulate emissions from diesel vehicles, including particle mass and numbers, have been controlled to very low levels using particulate filters since the Euro 5b stage, which became effective from September 2011 for new models and from January 2013 for all vehicles April EU car makers further away from their 2021 CO2 targets
    All but three car manufacturers met their specific CO2 emission targets in 2017, based on current European vehicle test rules. Nevertheless, average CO2 emissions from new cars sold in the European Union in 2017 rose by 0.4 g/km from 2016, according to a report published by the European Environment Agency
    (EEA) that documents the latest official data submitted by EU Member States and vehicle manufacturers. This increase brings car manufacturers further away from their 2021 targets. According to the final data in the EEA report Monitoring CO2 emissions from new passenger cars and new
    vans in 2017, average CO2 emissions of a new car sold in the EU rose by 0.4 g/km in 2017 to 118.5 g/km, from 118.1 g CO2/km in 2016. Although this level remains below the current target level of 130 g CO2/km, it is well above the target of 95 g CO2/km to be achieved by 2021. Average CO2 emissions: historical development and targets for new passenger cars and vans in the EU-28. This suggests that it may be challenging for manufacturers to reach their 2021 targets. The troubling trend
    of increasing emissions—driven in part by the declining sales of diesel cars which are being replaced by petrol vehicles—continued in 2018, according to recent unofficial CO2 data by Jato Dynamics.
    Average CO2 emissions of new light commercial vehicles (vans) dropped by 7.5 g/km from 2016. The average new van registered in 2017 emitted 156.1 g CO2/km. This reduction brings the EU average emissions 11% below the 2017 target of 175 g/km and 6% above the 2020 target. While all van manufacturers respected their specific emission targets in 2017, three car manufacturers (Automobili Lamborghini, Mazda Motor Corporation and Société des Automobiles Alpine), representing together 1.4% of all new car sales in 2017, exceeded their specific emission targets for 2017.
    Other key findings of the report are:
    • For the first year since 2009, petrol cars constituted the majority of new registrations in 2017 (almost 53%). The proportion of electric vehicles (plug-in hybrid and battery electric cars) increased from 1.0% in 2016 to 1.5% in 2017.
    • New diesel cars, which were on average around 300 kg heavier than new petrol cars, emitted on average 117.9 g CO2/km, which is 3.7 g/km less than the average petrol car. The average fuel w petrol cars has been constant in 2016 and 2017, whereas the fuel efficiency of new diesel cars has worsened compared to 2016 (116.8 g CO2/km).

    • If similar petrol and diesel segments are compared, new conventional petrol cars emitted 10-40%
    more than new conventional diesel cars. For diesel cars, only the large-sized segment managed
    to achieve a small reduction (0.5 g CO2/km) in 2017 compared with 2016. For conventional petrol
    cars, large-sized cars saw a significant reduction in CO2 emissions of around 6 g/km, and medium/small-sized cars remained stable.
    • Amongst the largest automakers, Toyota Motor Europe had the lowest average CO2 emissions for new passenger cars registered in 2017 (with 103 g/km). Automobiles Peugeot and Automobiles

    Citroen followed with 105 g/km and 106 g/km, respectively. Automobile Dacia SA was the lowestemittingvans manufacturer at 118 g/km.

    Pieface
    Member

    We drive a 150bhp Leon Diesel estate, most of the driving is to / from work but we still turn around 450 miles on a small (45 lite?) tank, on holidays or longer runs of continual running better, such that you’d struggle to get in a petrol car AFAIK.

    With regards to DPF issues, if you don’/t ignore the glaringly obvious warning lights and drive it on a decent run every month you should be fine. Even if it does come on you only seem to need to drive for a few minutes at 2000rpm to sort itself out.

    IMO it will take years (if ever) for anywhere outside of London to introduce the diesel ban so it doesn’t concern me. Until they introduce a diesel scrappage scheme people will continue to buy them, so as a relatively ‘eco’ driver it might as well be me that drives it. Its still cheaper to VED, insure and run than our previous 1.6 petrol Leon so it was a no-brainer on a number of fronts.

    Premier Icon takisawa2
    Subscriber

    We bought a new 150hp, 1.4 litre petrol Tiguan last year. Went for petrol because it was to be the Wife’s car & would be doing all stop/start miles.
    It is horrific on fuel, truly rubbish. Probably 30 mpg tops. She now uses a 1.0 Focus, which is much better.

    If you go to the office 4 miles away most days then that would be enough to knacker* a diesel irrespective of total mileage or reasonably frequent longer trips.

    *slight exaggeration, but potentially big-ish bills and likely much lower mpg than you would be hoping for due to forced DPF re-gens.

    Have a 2013 Audi 2.0 diesel so pretty much the same engine (although mine makes 140ish bhp)

    Usage pretty much the same, apart from daily commute 8 miles not 4. Longer trips for both biking and work are much like you describe.

    I get 50 to 55mpg commuting, 60-70mpg long motorway trips for work (roof bars, but not bike carriers permanently on), 45-50mpg long motorway with bikes on roof.

    London potentially aside, any plausible diesel ban is so many years away that the car at that point will be pretty low value regardless, so you may lose a few hundred trading it in if that occurs. Whether or not it does, enjoy half a decade of £20 tax and 60mpg.

    IHN
    Member

    What’s wrong with the current car?

    Premier Icon ta11pau1
    Subscriber

    Diesel prices are strange at the moment, some fuel stations there 5 or 6p difference between petrol and diesel, then others it’s 1p more.

    I’m looking at a new car very soon and will be going 2.0 vag Tdi, 150 or 190bhp with dsg. 45-50mpg which is double my current car, and euro 6 so ulez compliant, at the moment. 15k a year will be my mileage with an 11 mile commute to work.

    carlos
    Member

    What’s wrong with the current car?

    Fancy a change for something a little newer, less miles, more toys.

    Thanks for the replies so far, seems that its no big deal if I was to go Diesel for a change, worst case would be ensure 1x long enough trip a week to clear the DPF (Spoke to an ex Audi mechanic) but generally it’d be fine and nowt to worry about.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    If you go to the office 4 miles away most days then that would be enough to knacker* a diesel irrespective of total mileage or reasonably frequent longer trips.

    No, it won’t. ONLY doing short trips knackers them. The long trips clear it all out.

    If the OP really cared about emissions, he’d keep his current car.

    We’re doomed. If the OP cared about emissions, he’d be cycling, jogging or even walking to work.

    office is about 4 mile from home

    That’s 20 minutes on a bike at a very leisurely 12mph. Maybe less. It’s not far enough to get a sweat up except on the hottest days of the year and even then you could probably drift along and stay comfortable.

    daily commute 8 miles not 4

    That’s a bit longer. Depends on how clear your run and how many junctions but maybe 30-40mins. I used to do 9 miles each way across London in 45 but junctions/traffic lights start to make a difference.

    an 11 mile commute to work

    A bit long but still not an unreasonable distance to ride twice a day. If any of these commutes had a load of hills then an e-bike removes that problem (and increases the distance you can ride without getting a sweat on.

    If these distances aren’t cycle-able we really should be asking why.

    We bought a new 150hp, 1.4 litre petrol Tiguan last year. Went for petrol because it was to be the Wife’s car & would be doing all stop/start miles.

    We’ve got the 125bhp version in our Caddy. Parkers has the same fuel economy for all the 125 engine on the Tiguan as the Caddy, and marginally better for the 150. We’ve had ours 3 months now and live in SW2 so a good chunk of our driving is stop/start to get out of town. We’re showing average since we’ve had it of 40mpg – how much are you thrashing it to only get 30?

    Premier Icon ta11pau1
    Subscriber

    A bit long but still not an unreasonable distance to ride twice a day. If any of these commutes had a load of hills then an e-bike removes that problem (and increases the distance you can ride without getting a sweat on.

    I do cycle it on the shifts that allow it, takes 45 minutes, plus shower time.

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