OK team, so I’ve had a car six months (£3.6k investment) and the timing belt has popped and pretty much destroyed the engine.

My trusted garage has taken a look and recommending not to pursuit fixing it but are looking at a ‘new’ engine which I don’t think will be cost effective either.

I took out a warranty with AA but I’m not hopeful of getting much back, and have a feeling a claim has a £500 cap.

Writing this makes it pretty clear I’m screwed with best option selling for spares/scrap and suck it up.

WWSTWD?

(it’s actually my sons first car and seeing him so upset is the worse thing)

Timing belt – were you told it was changed.

Was it overdue on milage and/or time

Which engine ?

Unless your exceedingly lucky and it was changed prior to sale or you have in writing it was changed to the book and not due for ages…. I expect your best option is to swap the engine.

 I expect your best option is to swap the engine.

This.

I do sub-£1k bangernomics myself and just change the oil and belts on all new (to me) cars. Sounds like you’ve just had some bad luck.

Unfortunately this ^^^

Engine from a scrappy?

If you check the AA small print, I expect it will state all the servicing has to be pretty much bang on in the service book. I’ve bought a car where the policy was void as the car was missing a stamp for its first service whilst owned by a dealership as a demonstrator!

Private sale or trader – not that it makes much difference after 6 months unless you were deliberately misled? Look at the wording of your AA warranty, and the recommended mileage for changing the belt vs the miles done.

Sometimes a new engine can be worthwhile – what car is it?

Engine from a scrappy?

Yep, or depending if it’s a popular car; FB groups are great for cheap parts. I’ve had gearboxes for £50 from young lads on FB breaking Golfs etc. Then get the local garage to fit it for £150.

Hugely depends what car as to how much a replacement engine would be.

You’d have no comeback after 6 months though.

Thanks everyone good advice and gives me a few things to check/look into.

I think dads going to end sucking this one up.

FYI it’s a 2010 ford Focus (1.6 Diesel).  Think it’s done in the region of 85k miles, not sure of service history so will check that.

From a dealer or private sale?

“About” six months – more or less?

Shit one Op, but I don’t think you have any chance with the seller unfortunately. It’s a common car so if going with a SH engine sourcing one should be relatively simple. It’s still a bit of a lottery though. But get a fitted price from someone first.

Tbh if it were me, I think I’d have to cut my losses, sell it as spares/repair, and buy something else. 🙁
There are some wild figures being quoted here.
150 to fit an engine? That’s what, 3 hours on a ‘super mega cheap garage’ rate, with no consumables. Not a chance. Even if you meant the gearbox, that’s still bloody cheap!
I’m not trying to pick holes, just make sure the op is aware of realistic costs.

150 to fit an engine?

Gearbox I said. But my point stands. It can be done one the cheap. But you have to eat the consequences if it goes wrong. Might only last a few months like others have pointed out.

My old 2006 Astra had break points on the rockers to try and stop the valves damaging the pistons. Might be worth checking to see if the engine is salvagable without a full rebuild??

How competent are you with spanners? Taking engines out isn’t as scary as it looks, just get a Haynes manual, and set aside a full weekend for it. Might turn an uneconomical write off into a £300* learning opportunity.

*Plus, while you have an engine out the car it’s worth replacing the cambelt, water pump, and probably the clutch (or at least the bearing), so budget for a fair few parts on top. And a few hoses etc.

Unlucky. It may be worth checking the service history if the timing belt has ever been replaced. The recommendation for those engines is 10 years or 140,000km’s (87k miles).

Personally I would just get an ebay engine for £300 and fit it over a weekend.

If you cant DIY I would cost up options;

sell as is
fit second hand engine you supply
fit engine garage supplies
fit recon engine
etc

If you can only sell it for £1k as scrap, but can get a used engine fitted for £1k, then at least you would have a running car that is hopefully worth about £3.5k (or could be throwing good money after bad if you are unlucky)

You can get a second hand engine for one of those for £300-£400. Depends whether the garage is willing to fit an engine they do not supply, and your appetite for risk. If you supply a duff engine you are out the labour.

You might want to consider the cost of fitting a new belt to a second hand engine as part of your cost calculations as well.

I’ve twice had a local garage fit an engine bought from a scrap car. I never saw the engine they sorted the whole process . The second time they seemed to be able to access mileage of Donner etc.

In neither case was it cheap. But in both cases it solved a problem and I was happy with the outcome

That engine is in loads of cars (Volvo V50, Peugeot etc), so there should be loads knocking around. Definitely worth looking at a recon engine.
They have a notorious problem with the oil feed pipe / turbo so make sure that’s sorted if you go down that route.

I’m not buying it. Who buys a 3.6k car without knowing the service history? how is it possible to take out any sort of useful warranty without a service history?

“Dad’s going to end up sucking this one up” and yet you say it’s your sons car?

I’m guessing it’s your car, your dad bought it for you and you trusted him to research it, then you took out a warranty assuming your dad had bought it with a proper service history.

Tell the true story, it’ll make it simpler, and noone cares if your parents helped pay for your first car

I think you’ve misread this @reformedfatty seems clear the OP is the dad.

@reformedfatty you must get a lot of exercise jumping to conclusions!

seems clear the OP is the dad.

This and that the reference to dad sucking it up is about him sorting it out for his son one way or another.

You’ve got to know a fair bit about cars and engines to spot holes in service history without quite a bit of model specific research. I’ve reviewed “fully stamped” books before to find cam belt changes and other scheduled mileage or time related items (including gearbox services) haven’t actually been done on the receipts or that corners have been cut (e.g. ancillaries running off cambelt not changed). I’m also experienced in fixing and running older cars so I know what car killers I’m looking for. Even careful people would have to work quite hard to spot some of this stuff.

IIRC that 1.6d has pressed on cam lobes which spin on the camshaft when there’s piston/valve interference. It might just need a pair of cams and a new timing belt.

reformedfatty thinks he’s over on Pistonheads… I know you shouldn’t believe everything you read on the internet mate, but that doesn’t mean you should disbelieve everything instead.

OP – as above, you could turn this into a decent father/son bonding and learning exercise if you have the time, tools and inclination. Engines start from £250 on ebay, would be relatively easy to swap it out but it all depends how hands-on you are.

Head doesn’t need to come off as pistons are always okay. New cam – not a used one , some rockers, timing belt kit and it’ll be fine.

A. What’s the car worth as scrap?
B. What would it cost to fit a used engine?
C. What would it be worth with a used engine fitted?

If A + B > C, then scrap it and buy another car.

Might as well fit a clutch plate if your going to change it yourself. Save doing it again in 9 mths.
Get a haynes manual, hire an engine hoist for a 3 day period.
Try and fimd an engine thats in a car so you can check the milage on the mot. Gov wesite.
Allow for belts, filters, fluid, oil plus specialist factory tools that are sometimes needed to pull the injectors or align the clutch.
You will need a good socket set for sure and probably a torque wrench

or just get the garage to change the cam and a few rockers……

these engines don’t have a good reputation at the best of times, finding a good used one will be hit and miss. The OPs garage already sounds crap as they don’t know about the pressed on cams ‘safety feature’ and have the written the car off.

The ‘father and son bonding time’ is pie in the sky – this isn’t an A series or Pinto.

Is the 1.6 a PSA pug Citroën unit? Like the berlingo hdi etc?
Pop the cam cover get a torch, shpuld be able to see if the lobes have actually spun on the shaft. If there’s no visible damage then yep new cam, belt, water pump if its belt drive,
Need timing in but thats bread and butter to any half reasonable mechanic.

My son’s changed two engines so far, takes a bit of time, but can be done on the drve with a engine lift. Both engines bought via ebay for less than £500.

Sorry to hear it OP – seems the lottery of old cars. £3.5k isn’t that much these days(!) on a car.
You are not going to get comeback on who sold it to you, and I’ll place a bet the warranty isn’t going to be much help either.
Time to do maths on sell as is and buy a replacement car Vs replace the engine.

I personally would not change an engine – experience says that the tools, time, problems and worry are just not worth it unless you’re already tooled up and confident as home mechanic.

At 85k it’s unlikely the belt will have been changed by the previous owner (and if it had been it wouldn’t have failed), but at 12 years it’s overdue. The AA might not cover failure to maintain to Ford recommended intervals. But from what others are saying it sounds worth digging a bit deeper into fixing it.

My son’s changed two engines so far, takes a bit of time, but can be done on the drve with a engine lift

Wasn’t your son a trainee mechanic though.

While I can do it …and agree it can be done.

I wouldn’t recommend it for a first foray into car fixering esp with modern engine management

@reformedfatty maybe have another read of the op and subsequent replies. Engage your brain and feel free to apologise to the OP while you are there.

Head doesn’t need to come off as pistons are always okay. New cam – not a used one , some rockers, timing belt kit and it’ll be fine.

Even if the cam has some mechanism where it fails first, surely the piston smashing into the valves is likely to have damaged one or the other, and spat bits of metal into the combustion chamber?

I don’t think I’d bother doing the belt, cams etc without knowing the inside is still good.

Watch from 10 minutes in then search the next one, IF it has a camshaft with lobes pressed on then new camshaft could sort it. he also shows how to check for possible valve damage

Even if the cam has some mechanism where it fails first, surely the piston smashing into the valves is likely to have damaged one or the other, and spat bits of metal into the combustion chamber?

Exactly. It’ll depend on whether the engine has been designed so that the pistons won’t hit the valves, even if the cam drive fails. I know that GM used to always design their engines that way decades ago, but the OP’s post suggests that the engine is junk. If the pistons have hit the valves, the valves will be bent or broken and probably the pistons smashed too.

2nd hand engines from scrappy tend not to have ancillaries, so you’d also have to buy turbo, starter, alternator, etc etc etc
I got my 1.6tdci belt done at 10 years / 85k and the mechanic said it was looking worn, so there’s not much leeway.

Might be worth taking the head off it 1st and see what it’s done. Might get away with a few valves and followers