New Soul from Cotic

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  • New Soul from Cotic
  • I think it looks alright, certainly better than the new BFe (which has that bloody scaffolding between the seat and top tube).

    But, I can’t believe that dropper post hose routing gets signed off; it looks absolutely shocking. Along with the rest of the cables, it just looks like a bloody mess compared to the Cotics of old.

    You’ve also got to wonder what the point of this bike is since they’ve got the Solaris. I thought big wheels were where it was at for that type of riding?

    Premier Icon coolhandluke
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    Glad I bought one of the reduced 27.5 ones the other week.

    smell_it
    Member

    Looks okay to me, black would have helped distract from that mess of cable’s though.

    Premier Icon iainc
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    It’s shorter reach than your Zero TR!

    Nope, the Soul is 11mm longer in both ETT and reach than the Bird TR, both medium.

    I just had a play with it on the custom bike builder and compared them, the Bird is, understandably, a lot less cash for same components. I’ll keep telling myself that !

    jekkyl
    Member

    I don’t think the cables look any worse than other bike. It would be worse if you put a front mech on and with a sideswing front mech (correct me if I’m wrong) it’d be another cable going down the downtube. Has it got stays for the cable there?
    I can see that they’ve removed the cable stay on the seat tube for a top pull mech.

    That’s a pretty machine that has that ‘sorted’ look. I’d still be bouncing off the stops of a 120mm fork, just like every 120mm hardtail I’ve ever owned.

    Is it going to happily run a 140mm fork? I should think that’s how you’re going to see most of them in the wild.

    Nope, the Soul is 11mm longer in both ETT and reach than the Bird TR, both medium.

    That’s because Cotic quoted sagged, Bird quote static geometry. The Bird has longer reach when quoted the same way.

    Premier Icon Normal Man
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    Scienceofficer – Member

    Is it going to happily run a 140mm fork? I should think that’s how you’re going to see most of them in the wild

    On the geometry charts it shows a 140mm set up too.

    That makes the HTA 66 degrees for e.g. Although as usual with Cotic figures that is sagged number (25% sag).

    Premier Icon iainc
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    chief, thanks for the info, makes sense and ties in with the measurements you mentioned on my Bird thread. Surprising that 25mm of sag changes the reach by 15mm or so but I guess that’s the basic angles and geometry thereof.

    Premier Icon scotroutes
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    Michael wrote:

    I don’t think the cables look any worse than other bike. It would be worse if you put a front mech on and with a sideswing front mech (correct me if I’m wrong) it’d be another cable going down the downtube. Has it got stays for the cable there?
    I can see that they’ve removed the cable stay on the seat tube for a top pull mech.

    The cable run for a side-swing mech would run parallel to the dropper cable – attached to the bottle cage mounts I assume – unless they’ve added additional.

    TheDoctor
    Member

    Looks like a barge, with the turning circle of an oil tanker no doubt!

    Premier Icon metalheart
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    The cable run for a side-swing mech would run parallel to the dropper cable – attached to the bottle cage mounts I assume – unless they’ve added additional.

    On my SolarisMAX there are clips that use the bottle cage (and another nearer the ht) for fixing the cable for my fm (as supplied from Cotic)…

    It does indeed look looooong… fortunately I don’t have room for another bike (and if I had it would’ve been filled with either a FlareMax or a gravel bike of some sort…) 😳

    Premier Icon nickc
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    Love it, I think it looks purposeful. Love the finish and the colours, The cables don’t matter a jot. It’s ace to see development still happening in hardtails, when we live in a bike world full of boutique £5K full sussers. If you’re looking for a capable all round HT you really are spoiled for choice at the minute.

    Ace.

    It looks comedically long and slack but will look normal soon I imagine as others catch up

    Hasn’t this just caught up with everyone else?

    Considered a Soul in the past as thought it had the classic ht look and the colour schemes mad3 it look very smart. Not anymore, that’s boggin.

    JonEdwards
    Member

    Well I shall be over to Cotic on Monday to have a butchers in the metal… (although not a ride)

    I loved the mkV BFe I took out on extended demo about 6 weeks back, and if they hadn’t already sold out of med blues I would almost certainly have just signed on the dotted line there and then, but Cy said at the time that the new Souls were due in shortly so I decided to hold fire. At 145lb and not as into dropping off big stuff as I used to be, I don’t really need the beef of the Bfe and the ~1lb less of the Soul frame is handy too. More about seeing how the geo stacks up.

    Comparing like to like – med, 140mm forks, sagged, there’s a degree slacker in the SA, but that’s easily compensated for in saddle fore/aft; BFe is 5mm lower BB, Bfe reach is 6mm shorter and stack is 6mm higher, although presumably this doesn’t include the extra stack height generated by the Soul needing an external top HS cup.

    Bar the BB height, that all sounds near as dammit identical. No idea whether I’d notice 5mm of BB height or not.

    I think I prefer the shape of the BFe – I’m a sucker for seatstays that match the TT angle, and it makes the bike look slightly less gawky. Like the orange, but a bit been there/done that, tempted by the silver/pink if I go the Soul route.

    Could live without the Boost back end, but it’s not a deal breaker as none of my wheels are the right size anyway.

    Premier Icon Northwind
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    chestrockwell – Member

    Hasn’t this just caught up with everyone else?

    I think that’s probably true tbh. And I think some of the comments on this thread maybe show why, Soul owners/lovers are a bit conservative I reckon. But the original Soul wasn’t conservative.

    JonEdwards
    Member

    Hasn’t this just caught up with everyone else?

    I wouldn’t go that far – it’s just caught back up with the bleeding edge again.

    But the original Soul wasn’t conservative.

    Aye. I remember I’d been talking to Chas Roberts about a 100mm forked Dogs Bollx and he wasn’t happy building one as he reckoned the headtube would rip off. Then my mate Paul (yes, that Paul, now of Cotic fame) introduced me to his mate Cy who’d just ordered a load of frames that would take ginormous 125mm forks! AND he had FEA to back up his assertions that the headtube would stay glued on. The rest is history.

    I’ve been riding around on mk1 Soul geo for 14+ years now. Standing alone, it still works brilliantly – especially on fast flowy stuff, but the changeover from a modern enduroish full sus can be a little challenging. (Limited) experience of new skool geo suggests that it does just ride like a bike, but the extra length and slackness just stabilises the ride somewhat and gets rid of the “going over the front” feeling once it gets rough. Not noticed any issues with “the turning circle of an oil tanker”. It’ll be about the same length as a full sus and we manage with those OK.

    Premier Icon kayla1
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    I reckon an extra small with 140mm forks and 26″ wheels might be a bit of a laugh. It’s bloody sodding buggering boost though… The new BFe’s 142×12 and can take 26+ so why not stick with that for the Soul as well?

    Premier Icon vincienup
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    Considered a Soul in the past as thought it had the classic ht look and the colour schemes mad3 it look very smart. Not anymore, that’s boggin.

    That’s ‘personal taste’ for you though. My old Mk2 Soul was orange and my Soul275 is matte process blue. I quite like the new colours although I’d not get the magenta. I thought the nonsense with brown, black, yellow, grey and the worst offender – red over the last few years was a bit fugly but when bikes are only going to come in a couple of colours per batch there’s always going to be upset people.

    The ‘mercury’ is reminding me strongly of my old chrome ProStar BMX from when I was a kid! 😀

    Premier Icon BigJohn
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    Soul owners/lovers are a bit conservative I reckon.

    I ride a Mk1 Soul and as an old bloke I’m probably classed as conservative (not politically though).

    Mine has a short stem, wide bars and 140mm Pikes. Way beyond the designed limits, and I expect it to snap in two every time I throw it down a rock garden, but it isn’t half fun to ride.

    Premier Icon funkmasterp
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    I think it looks great and would love to have a go on it. I like the colours too. I’m guessing it will cost about £2k though which is, sadly, out of my budget.

    Premier Icon iainc
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    ^^^^ I specced one out earlier with as close to spec as a Bird I have just ordered, so mix of slx and xt, and a Reverb. It was about £2.5k.

    Premier Icon metalheart
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    The new BFe’s 142×12 and can take 26+ so why not stick with that for the Soul as well?

    Cotic site saying they’ll flog you ‘boostinators’ for 142 axle wheels if that helps?

    sharkattack
    Member

    Looks like a barge, with the turning circle of an oil tanker no doubt!

    You haven’t ridden any modern bikes have you?

    Premier Icon vincienup
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    If you’re looking at whole bikes, Cy’s email quotes builds from £1699 which are probably going to be XF fork of some description, all SLX plus own brand finishing kit based on the builds on the rest of the range. You might even get an Hope XC wheelset at that price. Checking the mailing list only product page (I’d been avoiding this!) there’s a discrepancy – it also quotes a £1699 complete bike start price but then doesn’t offer a build less than £1979. This is still the initial wave of earlies though – the main batch isn’t arriving for a few weeks yet so maybe both prices are true and the cheaper build just isn’t yet available. Frame only is £599 if you wanted to build your own – a spanking wheelset, groupset, build kit plus decent sh fork is quite doable around a grand for quite nice things, much less if you’re less picky!

    Premier Icon vincienup
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    The new BFe’s 142×12 and can take 26+ so why not stick with that for the Soul as well?

    Boost148 rear spacing futureproofs the frames, and our latest super clearance stays, as introduced on the SolarisMAX and BFe give clearance for up to 27.5 x 2.6″ tyres, or 26 x 3.0″.

    Premier Icon kelvin
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    It is true, that the new BFe has purposefully stayed 142, and Soul and SolarisMAX are 148 (and have been for a while now). Can’t win either way. Buy a different model, or convert your wheels. Cotic didn’t invent Boost, but can’t ignore it.

    The ‘mercury’ is reminding me strongly of my old chrome ProStar BMX from when I was a kid!

    Jealous. Memory of lusting over that BMX is still strong for me. This is paint not chrome though. Easier to live with. But that is the look.

    there’s a discrepancy – it also quotes a £1699 complete bike start price but then doesn’t offer a build less than £1979

    Wheels need building for the Silver build bike… people picking up one of the handful of advance frames need to go with the more expensive (but ace) Hope wheels I’m afraid.

    TheDoctor
    Member

    sharkattack – Member

    Looks like a barge, with the turning circle of an oil tanker no doubt!

    You haven’t ridden any modern bikes have you?

    Former bike shop manager, so probably more than most tbh, a lot of current bike ‘improvements’ are anything but!

    sharkattack
    Member

    Former bike shop manager, so probably more than most tbh, a lot of current bike ‘improvements’ are anything but!

    You’re doing well then. All the bike shop managers I know are sick of the sight of the things and haven’t ridden one in years.

    The fact remains, mountain bikes have been too small for normal people forever. Longer wheelbases and roomier cockpits are a revelation. How long does a bike have to be before it becomes an actual barge? Because no Cotic is anywhere near that point.

    Premier Icon metalheart
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    When I were lad, it was pretty common to have 150mm stems. Infact I can recall people thinking I was crazy going for going for ‘only’ 120mm (with cut down Azonic DH bars) on my xc race bike 20 odd years ago… 😳

    Now that bikes are running sub 50mm stems (wasn’t Gary Fisher’s genesis set up the start of this trend, like, 15 years ago?) where is that length going to be instead? Mk1 Souls were designed around 90mm stems iirc.

    I found my mk1 felt a wee bit too small after I’d gone 70mm/685mm. Plus, the move to inline/dropper pins has exacerbated this further… it was a superb bike back in the day (compared to my previous Cove and Klein). But I went up a size as a result on my SolarisMAX…

    Yeah, they do look long, but the proof of the pudding…

    ETA: I’ve kind of arrived at a similar point as Cotic over the last 10 years from my own limited experience so if you actually rode your bikes heaps this would probably be what I would have been waiting for… 😀

    Premier Icon scotroutes
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    The fact remains, mountain bikes have been too small for normal people forever

    It’s been a trend on here for as long as I can remember – folk buying frames that were too small for them on the premise that it made them “poppy” or some suchlike.

    “I’m 6’2″ and can’t decide if I should buy the medium or the large”.

    Really?

    Premier Icon kayla1
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    Yes, but for aaaaaaaaaaaaages MTBs were basically road bikes with knobbly tyres, weren’t they?

    I had a teeny tiny 14″ Giant Boulder in the mid 90s with braced risers and a short stem (I was a total dual slalom fashion victim 😆 ) and it was great, relatively speaking, compared to the gate of a GT I’d had previously.

    I found my small 26″ Soul a smidge short after riding a small Flare (still on 26″, mind) built up with the same 760mm bars and 50mm stem, and the medium Rocket was a bit too stretchy built up with the same stuff. The small old shape BFe275 (on 26″) is spot on for me- short and small enough to be ‘fun’ around the doors doing skids and wheelies but long/slack enough to be properly fast (in my head!) when it gets a bit bumpy.

    I like small bikes but until recently a small bike also pretty much meant a short bike, now I can buy a frame that’s small with loads of standover but is still the right sort of length to be comfy on for a decent amount of time.

    So, in summary, bikes are great and the XS Soul with 140s looks like it might be around the same sort of shape as the old small BFe275… Hmm.

    Yes, but for aaaaaaaaaaaaages MTBs were basically road bikes with knobbly tyres, weren’t they?

    Just by chance my first MTB predated this era – it was a dated-for-the-time Peugeot in 1988. Geometry more like the klunkers than the NORBA XC bikes that took over – and short stem and wide riser bars (particularly for a nine year old!)

    Geek moment:

    Soul Mk1 medium
    590 ETT
    424 reach
    90 stem (85 extension)
    675 ETT+stem
    509 reach+stem

    Soul Mk5 medium
    636 ETT
    458 reach
    35 stem (32 extension)
    668 ETT+stem
    490 reach+stem

    Premier Icon metalheart
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    @chief: I don’t pretend to understand them numbers but I think we’re in agreement 😀

    Oh, and Scotroutes +1

    Where is hora these days anyway?

    Premier Icon vincienup
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    I’m 178/5’10” and normally happy on mediums in most brands although in old SC sizes I was L (not sat on a more modern SC than my Mk2 Chameleon do no idea if this has changed).

    The other Larges I’ve allowed myself to be persuaded into – eg, 20” Inbred, L Spicy, 58 Cotic X – have all felt fundamentally too big for me as soon as I’ve stopped sitting and spinning and tried to point them down things although they felt fine while in sit and spin mode.

    I know the ‘buying small bikes’ thing did take on a life of its own, but I’d contest that off-road mtbs do work better when on the small side compared to conventional ‘road’ based ideas of fit. Rider shape while descending/ riding anything technical is probably a large part/ all of this I’d think. Thus, pretty much any mtb that isn’t a pure DH race bike is going to involve compromise in geo as it’s trying to make fundamentally different rider positions work simultaneously.

    Premier Icon iainc
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    Surely at 5ft 10 you are bang in the middle of M sized territory ? I am same height and all my bikes are and have been mediums, though varying geometry obviously. My medium, last of the 26’ers, Soul felt perfect till I got a medium 17 Anthem, and that made the Soul feel short. When sizing my ‘about to arrive tomorrow’ Bird Zero TR, Ben sized me, based on review of all my other bike stats, on a M, with a 40mm stem.

    Premier Icon Northwind
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    chiefgrooveguru – Member

    Geek moment:

    Soul Mk1 medium
    90 stem (85 extension)

    I had an early Soul with the same geometry and IIRC a 60mm stem, maybe a 50. Did try it with 90 and it was orrible.

    thorpie
    Member

    Used to own one if the last ‘decent looking’ Souls, not keen on the last two incarnations, including this one. The 2018 Orange P7s and Clockworks look much nicer in my opinion.

    tewit
    Member

    Depends on the length of your limbs as well. I’m 5′ 11 and I’ve a mrk2 Large Soul with a very old fashioned 100mm stem and no way do I feel too stretched out. Seat’s all the way back too.

    I think it looks great! Can’t justify it right now, but will be keen to try one out in the new year

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