mosey do you have any pics of how it should look setup on the forks?

i think as i can only see the crown race on the fork (as ive had no reason to take the crown race off) that more than likely the reducer is sat below that? im sure my lbs wouldnt make a simple mistake like that

plus if that silver metal reducer thing wasnt there, there would be plenty of side to side slop as effectively the cup would be to big for the fork steerer?

and i guess you mean worse case i need a new bottom cup to run the pikes right? 😆

yeah you would only see what looks like a crown race as the adapter sits below it.

If you take your fork out you can easily remove the crown race (it is split so easy to remove and check) and have a look.

Worst case it’s a new bottom cup for the pikes.

ahhh phew, ive actually just spoke to hope as i was a little concerned! yep as you say the reducer sits below the crown race so ive probably never seen it as i didnt fit them…i thought you meant it sat on top of the crown race so should be visible 😆

hope also that if there was no reducer below the crown race then there would be ‘obvious’ play side to side regardless to how you tightened it etc

so think im safe on that front, and they also said id just need a new bottom cup for the pikes, and then not to froget to remove the reducer when fitting them haha!

if there is a reducer your headset is a 1.5 bottom and you wouldn’t need a new bottom cup.

hmmmmmmm totally lost now, my forks currently are 1 1/8th, using some form of reducer to make them work

if i want to run a tapered steerer (which is different to my current 1 1/8th forks) how will i not have to change something?

sorry for the dumb questions!

you just take the reducer off your fork now and put the crown race you already have above it on the pike as the pike is already 1.5.

Ahhhhh gotcha!

so the cups are already 1.5 on the lower (told you i didnt get headset standards) and thus the pike should just slide in so to speak with just the crown race on?

i thought you had to have a different bottom cup for the 1 1/8th conversion though?

no the 1 1/8 conversion is a 1.5 bottom cup and then your adapter fits on the fork and effectively makes it 1.5 too. then the 1.5 crown race fits your 1 1/8 forks.

ahhh right, so nearly 100% in theory then i shouldnt need a new cup at all?

cheers for the help and patience mosey, the thing is im actually quite handy at fettling etc, but these last few years with Bottom brackets and new headsets its totally thrown me, least im a bit more upto date on it now!

Exactly mate, these conversations shouldn’t need to happen. The different models are out of control.

Hope also do a step-down headset – item D on linky.

I’ve got one on my Ragley – no crown race adapter – it’s a 1 1/8″ bearing etc and normal 11/8″ race. The step-down is done in the head tube.

As you have said though – you’d know all about it if it wasn’t set up right.

hahah just rang the shop, they said i had an internal cup fitted at the moment, and id need a new one to accomodate the pike?!!??!?!

absolutley no idea, again though they said thats worse case scenario so its only £30 quidish to put right!

that really makes no sense to me. the internal cup should be 1,5 unless there is an older cup. Im sure the only reducer they did other than the adapter was external.

oh well.

its totally lost me now mosey 😆

i can take the bearings out by hand (both top and bottom) and the bottom bearing is much bigger than the top one…..

im actually thinking now euain is right as above, and ive got Item D on that chart, which effectively allows the fork steerer to sit in like a normal 1 1/8th, and hence probably why ive only ever noticed just the crown race as i dont think there is a reducer on the forks still, im pretty certain from memory all i have on my forks is a crown race (as i removed it not long ago to grease it all)

i think maybe they just fitted me a headset just to take the 1 1/8th steerer and nothing more

the more i look at the pic the more im conviced mine is item D

so therefore i am defo gonna need a new bottom cup, but as its tapered i assume the top cup/bearing will be ok to use on the pike?

Sounds like you’ve got the same cup as I have on the Ragley. The spacing etc. is in the lower low stack cup – it fits the large diameter head tube but runs a 11/8″ bearing etc.

As you say, it’ll be a new cup for the Pike so not too bad..

yep does sound like that, euain, would that make sense that the bearing in the lower cup is bigger than the top one? and that does mean 100% that the top part of the headset will be fine with the pikes?

and as i do now need a new bottom cup if i get the pikes, which bottom cup is it i need on the pic you linked on merlin?

Jesus wept, have we still not reached a conclusion? 😕 🙄 😉

ha well that was confusing.

for me to run a tapered fork in my 2012 Orange 5 it is top cup 2 and bottom cup e. I fitted this last month so it’s right.

hahah! tell me about it, heart surgery has nothing on headsets 😛

im actually thinking straight now, my top headset cup will be fine as its 1 1/8th and cant possibly be wrong with it being a tapered headtube

its the bottom ones thats buggered us up, mine is defo that cup D thing!

and to get my pikes on i’d need cup E to make it back to a fully tapered setup

😆

so yeah mosey after all chances are i dont have that reducer thing on 😆

I HATEZZZ BIKESZZZZ

The bottomless tokens are spacers that reduce the air volume in the air spring, they can be used to make the fork ramp up at the end of its travel, they also give the fork more mid stroke support, you can add and remove them by unscrewing the air spring side and adding or subtracting. The beauty of them is that you can make the for more progressive without effecting the small bump sensitivity.

The question is. …… is there a bodge adapter type thing to make a tapered fork sit in a 1 1/8 headtube?

skipped to the end of the OW headset conversation but to add a bit…

Hope did do an all in one reducer bottom cup that used a 1 1/8th crown race and bearing but I think it was external cup style, they may have done a low stack type too.

They then switched to the much more sensible and easier to adapt set up with a normal external or low stack 1.5″ lower cup and the reducer ring. The reducer sits on your 1 1/8th fork where the crown race would normally be and then the crown race sits on it. It will probably leave a little bit of shoulder visible

dibboid – Member
The question is. …… is there a bodge adapter type thing to make a tapered fork sit in a 1 1/8 headtube?

andyl im still confused i reckon anyways

as it stands i have one bearing thats bigger , and one thats smaller (top) so ive no idea which version ive got in it

im pretty sure i dont have a reducer under the crown, from memory the crown sits directly on top of where the steerer joins the top of the forks

i think when i get them ill just get the shop to sort it, theyve said worse case ill need a new bottom cup so not the end of the world

its more important that i can actually have the pikes fit the frame, which is the good thing ive found out!!!

is it a hope headset? my SS headset came with 2 crown races. One with a small hole for 1 1/8th forks and one with a large hole for tapered forks.

is it a hope headset? my SS headset came with 2 crown races. One with a small hole for 1 1/8th forks and one with a large hole for tapered forks.

Hope made both a 1.5inch step down cup and 1.5 cup with step down crown race. Its not that hard. If your Five has a 30.9 seat tube it also has a tapered head tube.

Met plenty of crap riders who cant fix there own bike
Met plenty of crap riders who can fix there own bike

Never met a good, fast rider who cant fix there own bike………

Maybe best you just go the bike shop

Never met a good, fast rider who cant fix there own bike………

Have met a few who have tried to fix their bikes with rocks though 😉

I’ve also got an issue someone wants white solo air RCT3 Pikes, which I can swap the chassis over on from some Dual position ones (26″ wheel) does anyone want some all black dual position ones before I order the ‘spare’ set though? Custom 😉

Hope made both a 1.5inch step down cup and 1.5 cup with step down crown race. Its not that hard. If your Five has a 30.9 seat tube it also has a tapered head tube.
Met plenty of crap riders who cant fix there own bike
Met plenty of crap riders who can fix there own bike
Never met a good, fast rider who cant fix there own bike………
Maybe best you just go the bike shop

😆 captain knob jockey to the thread! Yay!

Thanks pal, I guess ill just have to continue to be a crap rider then riding my filing cabinet and driving my Audi…….not knowing something about a headset means you can’t fix your bike and a crap rider all rolled into one

I’ve not had a need to mess with the headset until I’ve thought about the new pikes, so apologies for being shit, I let the shop sort it from new given i bought the frame from them

Andy yep it’s a hope headset! The shop are sure when they fitted it they used cup ‘d’ on that link….so defo gonna need a new bottom cup

Never met a good, fast rider who cant fix there own bike

Er… You’re married to her…. 😀

Time to rename the thread????

Sorry – missed the continuing thread.. not sure if it’s passed the offer advice stage into time to offer insults..

Top will fit. The options on anything post about 1995 are 1 1/8″ (tapered or straight steerer but either one has 1 1/8″ at the top) and 1.5″ – and 1.5″ will not fit in a 5.

So that leaves the bottom.. from Orange site you’ve, ZS44/28.6|ZS56/40 (>2011 Five)- which means bottom of your frame has a 56mm (ZS56 bit) hole in it for the headset bits. See: Hope PDF.

Actually, that Hope document is pretty good – not sure I can offer much more than it says.

You most likely don’t have the “D” headset like my Ragley as it’s a 44mm fitting. You almost certainly have “E” – which means you don’t even need anything new for the Pike. The PDF has some measurements on it so you might be able to get a ruler out and work something out definitively!

cheers euain, it turns out mosey was right 😆 it turns out now the shop did indeed install a cup ‘E’ (ive not checked the reducer thing under the crown race but one can only assume they are right!)

they seem to think ill just be able to bang the pikes on when i get them and remove the reducer!

so yeah mosey it seems you were right, though im going to take the forks off this weekend to confirm there is a reducer under the crown 😆

it still doesnt sit totally flush in the cup though out riding last night and i noticed i can see a bit of the green seal on the bottom bearing, only a slight gap but a gap all the same, im sure if it was fitted correctly there should be no gap what so ever!

but then as before if i didnt have the reducer under the crown the forks would surely (in theory be loose) and wobble side to side!

im still sure something isnt quite right with my fork/headset interface though as ive knackered a lower bearing in 5 months from brand new (my old hope 1 1/8th headset last 4 years and just needed a cleaning every now and again!)

but yeah, anyways enough of this lets talk about the pikes again!

more reviews/pics please

🙂 the Pikes with just the crown race will be perfect then.

yip, hoping so anyways, (tis only 30 quid if not anyways i guess!) plus they will fir the forks for free for me so know it will be done right!

im actually ordering them from my lbs as i can get them for 20 quid dearer than the germans and fitted for free, plus if i have any problems they can send them off for me!

plus as theres a months waiting time it gives me sometime to save 😆

by the way mosey are you running pikes too?