650b titanium P7?

I would be funny to see them launch a multi pivot 12 bearing bike 😉

Are single pivots really that bad

my Alpine is better than the more expensive Mk1 Nomad it replaced, hence keeping it far longer (3 years and counting, compared to 9 months for the Nomad).

Mine benefits from having a CCDB which allows you to tune out some negative aspects of the suspension (like “trapdooring” on slow rolling stuff) which could be considered cheating, except CCDB’s are getting pretty common spec now.

I love my five but would never again buy a full bike from Orange. Way too expensive for the kit that came on it.
Now after 3yrs of upgrading and tweaking, it is the perfect bike for me. Ok it may not be the prettiest, lightest or “in trend” bike out there, but it can take a hammering from a 6’4″ 100kg rider, keeps on going in the grimmest of Scottish conditions and quite importantly, is very easy to maintain by myself.
Don’t know what the new bike will be, don’t really care, cos I’ve got my Five to ride 🙂

Had a single pivot Saracen Ariel and loved it. Easy to maintain, modern shocks have virtually done away with pedal bob, what’s not to like? If I buy another FS it will probably be a 5, they seem like more of a long term ride than other brands that seem to release new bikes every year in a deliberate ploy to make your current one obsolete.

Carbon Gyro. Has to be. 29er short chain stays, shortish travel, slack, long and low.

It’s a strange model right? It says a strange man

Looking a the very limited footage, it looks like it comes with the new CCDB inline. Also looks like it’s still got the big girder for a swing arm.

I dont hate Orange. Ive gone from liking their stuff to thinking they are past it and I dont rate them. Everyones pushing and trying whereas they are swirling round the glass of a smaller and smaller circle of very loyal customers.

My Patriot was great. Really was but it was far from everyone in the market. The ‘strange’ monicker. I see that and think ‘polishing old shit’.

The strange five
Come on.

What annoys me is they still price their frames/bikes stupidly and still get their loyal fanbase buying. Why do you hangon? The British company misty eyed stuff?

Finally (and more damning). I though British was innovation and new ideas.

Watch the sweary northerners on vimeo, most of them ride well and they’re on 5’s….now I know they’re good riders and would be good on anything but if the 5 was as bad as some say then their choice of bike would be holding them back…. and that clearly isn’t happening.

I though British was innovation and new ideas.

no obviously it’s just a cover whiny cheapass british complainers

Looks as though it is indeed a new Gyro, now called a Segment (Orange Segment, Strava Sagment, geddit).

http://www.orangebikes.co.uk/bikes/segment_s/

Still got 450mm chainstays by the look of it.

Still got 450mm chainstays by the look of it.

Is that long/short/average for a 29er?
I notice the Banshee Phantom has 442mm

It’s just a number and I guess it doesn’t mean much on its own, but I was surprised that they didn’t take the opportunity to shorten it a bit as something around 430-440 is more fashionable if nothing else.

So “new Orange next Tuesday” = Renaming the Gyro.

Yawn.

650b titanium P7

I’d have bought that. Even a steel 650b P7 would be of interest.

By the time you put a reverb and decent wheels on the upgrade price is 4k for an alloy bike. Orange need to learn the meaning of the word upgrade too. Also why is a pike 200quid more expensive than a Fox fork.

I guess it’s because it what it costs them, plus their usual markup plus some for the LBS you can buy it from.
Why do you think most sub 2k bikes have fox on them – OEM prices and retail prices are different.

I don’t think their complete bikes are great value compared to buying a frame and building yourself. But that involves buying from all the cheapest places on the internet. Buy the same bits from your LBS and the Orange compares well – and you still get the backup of your LBS.

You pays your money and you takes your choice.

At £3000 you shouldn’t have to replace the tyres to get it to go round corners tbh.

I don’t really get it- since there was already very little reason to buy a Gyro over a Five, making a more capable, harder hitting Gyro just seems to narrow that. Though I suppose rebranding the Five is supposed to create that gap. Interested to ride it but the Five 29er’s so damn good I don’t really know what this is for.

I bought a five frame for 1299 new, New pikes, shimano brakes, magvic en 521, 1×10 with zee mech, dropper post. Total build was under 3000 the same build with Orange is over 4k. So I don’t buy the excuse that pikes cost them 200quid more, all the extras should be as standard.

This is also the five had aweful reviews last year as it was reviewed with a spaghetti fork and a rear shock that shouldn’t be on the bike.
The five should come with a pike and monarch plus debonair or cc inline as standard.

Christ in a bucket! I thought I’d have a browse of their site and just see how much a 322 frame is, £2K, then add a CCDB and its £2.4k WTF! I mean other than having the shock going through the down tube how is that frame significantly different from their DH bikes 15 years ago?

I like orange, I really do, yes its good fun to take the piss out of them and their owners and go on about filing cabinets and Audi roof racks, but they have been a consistent part of British MTBing since the start…

But, well they’re kind of cursed by being a “British manufacturer” which means relatively high labour and overhead costs hence they’ll never beat Yank/European designed Far eastern manufactured equivalents, on price, and if they do venture to the far east to get stuff made, they’ll probably lose half their fans in the process…

TBH I don’t reckon they have the resources to develop any truly new products or production methods, they are probably trapped in a bit of a rut, I’d like to see them making Carbon frames, a lighter carbon, five equivalent would score them some sales, but I doubt they could actually make it at a competitive price here in the UK.

Unfortunately that’s the way their high price point end of market is headed at present, affordable Far eastern composite frame Vs expensive Yorshire tin bashing, that “Made in Britain” USP starts to wain when there’s a big saving and a lot of functional benefits on offer to customers from the bigger brands.

Woooo found one. The Segment looks good! Orange Segment Pro @ 3 Peaks Cycles

the Orange Segment is a seriously quick bike ideal for blitzing Strava times at your local trail centre

…… 😡

That is fopping…a mix of f..king and gopping! Truly a munter of a bike for visually and impared enduro storm troopers

AlexSimon – Member

“Still got 450mm chainstays by the look of it”

Is that long/short/average for a 29er?

roughly about average.

but, this is STW where any bike with chainstays longer than 420mm can be dismissed automatically as a pile of crap.

Codeine FTW

Interesting & I like it, though I’m left wondering if the new ‘model’ is just about being able to sell the last of the Gyro’s, before phasing it out?
Still struggling to spend that much on a very basic frame, considering the rather lovely Banshee Phantom is the same price.

Want to try one though….

As for

But, well they’re kind of cursed by being a “British manufacturer” …… and if they do venture to the far east to get stuff made, they’ll probably lose half their fans in the process…

The prices still seems excessive, but “nail & head” otherwise

but

I’d like to see them making Carbon frames, a lighter carbon, five equivalent would score them some sales, but I doubt they could actually make it at a competitive price here in the UK.

This is not Orange though is it? My understanding that is Orange are an small off-shoot of a family sheet metal business. Why would they suddenly start investing in carbon fibre? Then, if they out-sources it.. “they’ll probably lose half their fans in the process” +1

ps:

Interested to ride it but the Five 29er’s so damn good I don’t really know what this is for.

I really don’t know why you keep saying this. Why can’t you see that not everyone ‘needs’ (or wants) a long travel (140mmm) 29er, but would like a something “harder hitting” or just plain fun…. That is not a short travel XC bike. The sales of the Whyte T-129 seem to prove this.

Yeah ST4 replacement, 650b 120mm travel, light cross country bike that will handle a good trash

Please let it be so, and as fun as the old one…..

But, well they’re kind of cursed by being a “British manufacturer” which means relatively high labour and overhead costs hence they’ll never beat Yank/European designed Far eastern manufactured equivalents, on price, and if they do venture to the far east to get stuff made, they’ll probably lose half their fans in the process…

that’s awesome according to this UK manufacturing best close up shop today and go sit watch jeremey every day

ARSE

I’m not sure how far it’s the “uk manufacturer” thing- the designs mean they’re using cheap materials and pretty simple metal forming, and I remember a factory visit where they mentioned the presses etc were already in place for non-bike work. Lots of welding and seemingly quite a lot of manual error correction but does labour constitute a major part of the final cost? Also, going by mine they saved money in production by employing blind welders.

I think it’s mostly just charging what the market will bear- they’re quite a small producer, IIRC they’re in the low thousands per year, and they sell everything they make so why charge less?

z1ppy – Member

I really don’t know why you keep saying this. Why can’t you see that not everyone ‘needs’ (or wants) a long travel (140mmm) 29er, but would like a something “harder hitting” or just plain fun….

I rode the Gyro and the Five back to back and I don’t think the Gyro does a single thing better, is the thing. It pedalled about the same, it’s barely any lighter, it jumped and cornered less well… And the Five didn’t do that “too big bike” thing of making trails seem too simple, at glentress frinstance it was awesome. I like the idea of the short travel fun bike but I don’t think it stands up when the longer travel bikes are so fun. Same as Camber vs Stumpy.

IMO of course 😉

One of the least inspiring bike releases ever IMO can’t put my finger on why though

I really don’t know why you keep saying this. Why can’t you see that not everyone ‘needs’ (or wants) a long travel (140mmm) 29er, but would like a something “harder hitting” or just plain fun….

I guess this depends on what the differences are.

If you have a stable pedalling platform, the weight difference isn’t too much and the geometry similar, then the big bike wins imo.

If your big bike has pedalling compromises, heavy and slack, then there’s some good reasons to release a lower travel bike.

I liked the Phantom I rode, but I also liked the Prime. It was only really the weight that differentiated them.

I’m not sure how far it’s the “uk manufacturer” thing- the designs mean they’re using cheap materials and pretty simple metal forming. Lots of welding and seemingly quite a lot of manual error correction but does labour constitute a major part of the production cost? Also, going by mine they saved money in production by employing blind welders.

vs carbon frames where the prices are dominated by trying to recover the upfront costs of developing the mould.

that’s awesome according to this UK manufacturing best close up shop today and go sit watch jeremey every day

ARSE
No work out how to compete, if you continue to make the same thing in different configurations that is slipping/dropping behind the rest of the world in techniques and materials things might not end well. As somebody has said how long does history and chucking the UK flag on it carry you.

A simple question , so if Orange did make a multi pivot bike which linkage would you all like VPP DW MAESTRO or one of the bastard derivatives, so an old school Horst link or even a linkage activated SP, your choice !! So which one will make you stand out from the crowd? Mmmmm
Probably one of the reasons Orange don’t go that way, as there’ is no best linkage, otherwise all bikes would have it !!!!

No work out how to compete, if you continue to make the same thing in different configurations that is slipping/dropping behind the rest of the world in techniques and materials things might not end well. As somebody has said how long does history and chucking the UK flag on it carry you.

We dominate the world in certain technologies , compete with who there are companies coming here asking us how to compete, Orange might not be the best example but nonetheless product here which is a feat in its self

Orange’s complete bike pricing used to make me inexplicably angry too, but I’ve got over it now that I’ve realised they’re not gonna force me to buy one.

Nice to see them doing their own thing, going against fashion and coming out with the bike that they appear to believe is quickest regardless of marketing concerns.

I saw the thread title and thought “It’s going to be another single pivot bike, painted black and will retail for £2.5K”.

Turns out, my guess was correct!

I quite like it.

Considdering the kind of trail where 140mm+ of travel is an advantage is few and far between, even in the Peak it was only really going as fast as I dared down Cavedale that my Pitch ever felt like it was getting a workout. Same in the Lakes.

Agree it’s overpriced, the chainstay’s look very long, it weighs too much etc etc, but I’d still like a go on one.

More <5″ travel slack & tough 29ers please!

I rode the Gyro and the Five back to back and I don’t think the Gyro does a single thing better, is the thing. It pedalled about the same, it’s barely any lighter, it jumped and cornered less well… And the Five didn’t do that “too big bike” thing of making trails seem too simple, at glentress frinstance it was awesome.

I can understand your points about shock platforms being very good nowadays levelling the field between them & especially when you add in the weight factor. I rode the superbly capable Spesh Enduro (160mm) next to the Gyro and though they both went round the demo course very capably. I could still feel/knew the Spesh wasn’t trying and that I’d never even be able to scratch the surface of what it was capable of – [this is depressing feeling and for me a deciding factor that I would be through “overbiked” if I ever owned one], where-as the Gyro was much nearer it’s limits & felt more fun for it.
I think that what is more telling is that you ride the likes of Glentress, this isn’t my riding & never will be, so why would I need a 140mm (29er) bike for the relatively (in the scheme of things) flat midlands or even a few days away in wales? That’s why I question your comment, not because I think your wrong, more that your missing who/what the bike is aimed at.

TINAS +1

I do wonder though if the like of TINAs (RP and others) and myself are a very small minority, in a market where “going big” is always better. I mean after the initially it’s a “Orange 29er” Gyro sales, how have they really faired sales wise? (any dealers fancy telling their experience?)

z1ppy – Member

That’s why I question your comment, not because I think your wrong, more that your missing who/what the bike is aimed at.

TBH I think GT and the like are exactly where the shorter travel bikes ought to be able to shine. Same reason I usually take my hardtail there. But some really good big bikes can… I don’t know, lower their game, still excel at the relatively simple stuff. It’s what I loved about it.