I wasn’t a huge fan at the time, but Blair is very intelligent, able to rip people to pieces in an argument. And if there is a positive argument for his stance he can articulate it incredibly well making it difficult to argue with him. And of course, if there isn’t, he’ll create one, just like politicians do.

You’ll find some of the best arguers amongst Barristers, which he was for a time. They’re the ‘sexy’ performers of the Legal world who’s job it is to convince people their interpretation of the facts, rules, laws etc are correct.

My Uncle in Law is a QC, he’s a pompous dick, but almost impossible to argue with.

Tony Blair was only a barrister for a short time, and not a very senior one.

Keir Starmer was a QC and Human Rights defence Lawyer before he was the head of the CPS, he was Knighted for his services to the Law.

He’s a Sir and a studied Law at Oxford, but he’s the Son of a Nurse and a Tool Maker and was given the name Keir in honour of the first Labour MP.

If you were going to design the perfect Labour Leader, they’ll look like him. He’s of the People, but he’s also all the things the Toffs think are important. He’s not going to get flustered by a muppet like Boris, or anyone else.

Momentum will no doubt hate him.

The problem here wasn’t the policies, well apart from the one suicidal one we all love to talk about, but if they could marry a halfway likeable leader with the policies that everyone likes then they could recover very quickly. If Corbyn proved anything it’s that supposedly hard left, but not hard left at all policies like rail nationalisation are sellable.

The policies were dire. We’re a small c conservative country we don’t vote for radical stuff.

Multiple nationalizations, just every single thing they could think of dumped in. Dozens of billions here, dozens of billions there. Then a random 58bn after the manifesto was published! Multiple Bank Holidays, a 4 day week. It was totally implausible. Nobody believes there was civil service time or that they could get the cash spent fast enough. Even hardcore momentum supporters on here don’t understand some of it.

Maybe one nationalization and a few other things with a theme to tie it all together would have been managable and possible to sell.

All the commentary I’ve seen today says there there three problems: Corbyn himself, Manifesto & the Brexit policy. From everything I’ve seen I agree.

Keir Starmer was a QC and Human Rights defence Lawyer before he was the head of the CPS, he was Knighted for his services to the Law.

He’s a Sir and a studied Law at Oxford, but he’s the Son of a Nurse and a Tool Maker and was given the name Keir in honour of the first Labour MP.

If you were going to design the perfect Labour Leader, they’ll look like him. He’s of the People, but he’s also all the things the Toffs think are important. He’s not going to get flustered by a muppet like Boris, or anyone else.

Momentum will no doubt hate him.

This.

If Corbyn proved anything it’s that supposedly hard left, but not hard left at all policies like rail nationalisation are sellable.

LOL

The urge to escape our real self is also an urge to escape the rational and the obvious. The refusal to see ourselves as we are develops a distaste for facts and cold logic. There is no hope for the frustrated in the actual and the possible. Salvation can come to them only from the miraculous, which seeps through a crack in the iron wall of inexorable reality. They ask to be deceived. What Stresemann said of the Germans is true of the frustrated in general: “[They] pray not only for [their] daily bread, but also for [their] daily illusion.” – The True Believer

Its a valid point about positivity – Corbyns key message this campaign, or rather the message that got across, was negative: ‘Don’t let him sell the NHS.’ There needed to be a ‘We will XYZ’ to combat the ‘Get brexit done’ bullshit.

Well I imagine the new leader will be chosen when Len is ready.

Corbyn was awful, but the bigger problem is his puppet master, McClusky. He is absolute poison. A Rabid Militant Tendency Liverpool docker, who proudly boasts of his union record such as British Leyland and the Liverpool dockworkers.

As GS of unite he holds all the power.

A think a period of reflection is a good idea rather than reflexively finding a leader in the midst of all the bitterness and recrimination in the PLP at the moment.

I’m sure the good candidates are there. I like Angela Rayner, but not sure she has broad appeal. No real liking for Rebecca Long-Bailey, and haven’t seen much of Burgon in action.

Keir Starmer would be an obvious choice, but is he too metropolitan for a campaign that has to win back ground outside the cities? Likewise Emily Thornberry.

Is Dan Jarvis ready to step up yet? I like the guy, and think he has potentially wide appeal, but he’s firmly in the centre, so not sure the members will vote him in even if he wanted the job.

The gap since the last Labour administration means that whoever you pick, they will have little or no experience of government.

Corbyn was awful, but the bigger problem is his puppet master, McClusky. He is absolute poison. A Rabid Militant Tendency Liverpool docker, who proudly boasts of his union record such as British Leyland and the Liverpool dockworkers.

So what you’re saying is that a scouser robbed us (of the chance of a labour government)?

Corbyn was awful, but the bigger problem is his puppet master, McClusky. He is absolute poison. A Rabid Militant Tendency Liverpool docker, who proudly boasts of his union record such as British Leyland and the Liverpool dockworkers.

Ably assisted by Milne and Murray.

Batshitmentalists, the lot of them.

Milne and Murray are employees. McClusky is the power.

All I’m saying is it’s not as simple as “replace Jezza”

Keir Starmer was a QC and Human Rights defence Lawyer before he was the head of the CPS, he was Knighted for his services to the Law.

He’s a Sir and a studied Law at Oxford, but he’s the Son of a Nurse and a Tool Maker and was given the name Keir in honour of the first Labour MP.

Starmer would be great IMO, in ‘normal’ times. My fear is all those things above are just weapons to bash him with now.

“He’s a sir! He doesn’t speak for you! He’s a remainer! He defied the will of the people! He’s a tricksy Human Rights PC gone mad lawyer who got x off of y charges!”

Labour will need to have all the rebuttals fully in place and ready to go with whoever they choose.

Odds on Burnham throwing his hat in again?

Conflicted though. Starmer is clearly the best hope of properly opposing the Tories and tying Boris up in knots at PMQs, but agree that he has some awkward and easily weaponisable baggage to overcome.

Dan Jarvis?

Johnson and co wouldn’t scare him.

In fact, he is the candidate who would probably scare them the most. Which, TBH, is what Labour needs right now.

From 2015:

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/03/war-westminster-labours-dan-jarvis-future-prime-minister

I was hugely disheartened when Dan turned the leadership down last time. The cons wouldn’t have anything on him.

Starmer would be great IMO, in ‘normal’ times. My fear is all those things above are just weapons to bash him with now.

“He’s a sir! He doesn’t speak for you! He’s a remainer! He defied the will of the people! He’s a tricksy Human Rights PC gone mad lawyer who got x off of y charges!”

Labour will need to have all the rebuttals fully in place and ready to go with whoever they choose.

This is where Starmer could excel, he’s a working class boy done good, to the millions of ‘salt of the earth working class man in the street*’ Corbyn is a posh **** pretending to be ‘of the people’ everyone KNOWS Corbyn was born in a 15 bedroom house, everyone KNOWS he’s worth millions and everyone KNOWS he went to public school and yet here he ia trying to say he knows what’s best for them, even if it’s not what they want. It seems condescending. I don’t know how much money Corbyn has or where he was born or where he went to school, but most people think they do, it’s always in the back of their mind.

You throw those sorts of accusations as Starmer and firstly he won’t rise to them, if he’s got his public speaking skills honed like I think he does he’ll rise above without trying to ignore it, but secondly he can say yes, I am a Sir, I am a QC and I was in charge of the CPS, so I know that people from working class people like me can and should be able to become all those thing and it shouldn’t just be for Bullington boys, that picture of Boris (with CMD) in their sick posh **** club should haunt him, but he ‘owns’ his poshness.

Oh we really are ****! Bliar???!! The **** saviour??! Really??! Were any of you of voting age at the turn of the century because the general concencus here seems to be that he was some sort of true red lefty labour messiah!

Was he ****!

He was more Tory than the Tories dared to be. So much so, he at least had some sense to call it ‘New Labour’. Yep, right of centre policies with added ego and narcissism. The bloke was and more than likely still is a tosser.

Corbyn noodled himself because he didn’t have the balls to defend his long held views/disgust on the illegal Israeli land stealing of Palestine and he wasn’t a fan of the EU either, so was compromised as labour leader. If he had held onto his beliefs and stood up for them and given the party direction, he may well have been as unsuccessful as he has been, but he would have done so with integrity.

I’m sure the good candidates are there. I like Angela Rayner, but not sure she has broad appeal. No real liking for Rebecca Long-Bailey, and haven’t seen much of Burgon in action.

Burgon?

He’s their regular talking head on TV, the best of them, pure left wing talent

He was more Tory than the Tories dared to be. So much so, he at least had some sense to call it ‘New Labour’. Yep, right of centre policies with added ego and narcissism. The bloke was and more than likely still is a tosser.

If Blair doesn’t count then Labour will have gone 50 years without winning a general election. Shouldn’t they just give up?

Oh we really are ****! Bliar???!! The **** saviour??! Really??! Were any of you of voting age at the turn of the century because the general concencus here seems to be that he was some sort of true red lefty labour messiah!

Was he ****!

I was.

No he wasn’t some true red lefty labour messiah.

He was the Prime Minister.

3 times.

We enjoyed the longest period of unbroken economic growth in history.

We reduced poverty and child poverty.

We sent more young people to University than ever before.

We slashed NHS waiting times.

We banned fox hunting.

We ended the Troubles.

Corbyn was the lefty Labour messiah.

We lost the most important vote in modern U.K. history.

He lost EU elections

He lost 2 GE on the bounce.

The Labour Party fractured and has its worst election results since the 30s

Moderates were told to join the Lib Dem’s, told were we’re just **** Tories.

Bercow said yesterday that Politics was a legal blood sport and he’s right, it doesn’t matter what policies or ideas you have they count for less than nothing of you don’t hold power, because your opposition will seek to destroy them to make you look bad.

Anyway, no we don’t want Tony Blair back, but we do want a Labour PM.

We also sold off all of our gold reserves.

Fabricated evidence and misled parliament and the electorate in order to launch military action against someone who wanted to sell oil in Euros rather than USD

He really wasn’t all that…. rose tinted glasses?

As per my last paragraph, what is required is a party leader of any colour who will lead with their principles and above all else, integrity.

As per my last paragraph, what is required is a party leader of any colour who will lead with their principles and above all else, integrity.

Burgon then

We also sold off all of our gold reserves.

Fabricated evidence and misled parliament and the electorate in order to launch military action against someone who wanted to sell oil in Euros rather than USD

He really wasn’t all that…. rose tinted glasses?

As per my last paragraph, what is required is a party leader of any colour who will lead with their principles and above all else, integrity.

Another 50 years of Tory rule then. I like the cut of your jib.

**** me, another economics genus who was shouting at the top of their lungs “don’t sell the gold now, even though the price has been flat for years earning us nothing, in a few months there will be a huge terrorist attack and the price will sky rocket” it’s a shame no one heard them at the time.

Lots of people think like above and Labours massive spending plans confirmed said peoples beliefs and played into Tory hands.

I believe Labour should stick with socialist ideas but baby steps! Convince everyone you can be trusteed with the economy first.

Labour over history have borrowed less and paid back more than the Tories FFS, tell every interviewer at every chance.

Is it 40 nominations needed? 203 MPs so potentially 5 candidates. Or have I got it wrong?

Lisa Nandy and Dan Jarvis good shouts, hope they put themselves forward.

Momentum and Mcdonnell were always in charge, it’ll be his protege Long-Bailey, he’s already said the next leader should be a woman.

We ended the Troubles

Wasn’t that all down to Saint Jez?

Anyway, #Burgon4Laeder

#Burgon4ladder

Good news, Comrades!

Reports that Big Richy B isn’t ruling out running for the leadership!

Corbyn made it easy for labour voters to vote conservative. Blair made it easy for conservative voters to vote labour. That is all you need to know.

We are a slightly right of centre country. If you can’t appeal to this voting group then opposition or obscurity awaits. Campbell knew this and Blair ran with it.

When Corbyn was elected I vowed not to vote Labour. When Keir is anointed….

I think it’s worth reflecting on history before anyone rushes into this….and it’s interesting to see that Blair, Brown and Corbyn were all first elected to parliament in the Michael Foot wipeout of 83.

Two leaders and eleven yes, eleven, years later we got to Blair as leader, and then another three years after that we got a Labour Government. Glacial levels of movement. All the machinations and internal struggle, the bitterness and defeats. And the same happened to the Tories too.

Sure, there’s a leader in there somewhere, but a PM to be from the current crop? Unlikely i’d say. The taint will last.

In fact I’d go as far as suggesting they aren’t even a member of the PLP yet

Tristram Hunt FTW

Please be real.
Please be real.
Please be real.

https://twitter.com/BackBurgon/status/1205550317913432064?s=19

(Probably isn’t, but please…!)

Nope, still don’t recognise him. You say he was on telly during the election? Perhaps I glazed over a bit. 🙂

I’m sure he’s the dynamic, voter-winning force that Labour needs.

Burgonism lolz its not real

Opinium: The overall main reasons why people did not vote for Labour were the leadership (43%), their stance on Brexit (17%) and their economic policies (12%).

— Jim Pickard (@PickardJE) December 13, 2019

I think it’s worth reflecting on history before anyone rushes into this….and it’s interesting to see that Blair, Brown and Corbyn were all first elected to parliament in the Michael Foot wipeout of 83.

During that time they had a left wing hardliner who refused to quit in the face of defeat. He wasn’t afraid to get the handbook out to protect his position either.

Labour should have won in 92, Major wasn’t popular (despite actually being very good) but Kinock was even less popular.

You all need to go and speak to the people who voted Johnson in. It is irrelevant how someone handles the PM at PMQ’s most of the voters don’t even know what that is.
“Kier who” I can hear them say already. Very serious and dull person who won’t attract anyone.
Yes you need good policies and good politicians in the party but the leader needs to just be popular as the polices and abilities of the MPs is largely irrelevant at voting time.

Have you learned nothing from the last election…