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New Labour leader/ direction
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roneFull Member
It doesn’t really matter what a handful of people on this thread think. None of us have a clue who would go down best with the public. The policies are largely democratic so would be similar under any leader so the key thing is getting the leader the public want/will think is good.
I like this to a point – but has to be reconciled with the membership.
This is all actually a good thing – a few more members is great and more discussion and democracy of the Labour’s future is fine with me.
dazhFull MemberNo love for Clive Lewis then?
Absolutely, but the cruel truth is that this massively racist country will never vote for a black leader.
Watching Marr this morning it’s clear who the front runner is. Phillips was a complete car crash. Starmer has a job to do on brexit though. He wants to draw a line under it, but his opponents are not going to let him. Also Marr is a shockingly bad interviewer who barely conceals his contempt for anyone who isn’t a tory.
I’m curious as to why RLB is so quiet and hasn’t officially entered the race yet. Either they think the backing from the big unions means it’s already in the bag, or second thoughts? I wonder whether she really doesn’t want it and is being pushed into it? I can almost see Lavery stepping in as the Corbynite candidate.
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Latest Singletrack VideosFresh Goods Friday 696: The Middlin...RustySpannerFull MemberAbsolutely, but the cruel truth is that this massively racist country will never vote for a black leader.
I’m torn.
I know someone I trust who has worked closely with him and can’t speak highly enough of the guy.Are we really more backward than America in this respect?
My heart would love to think we’ve moved on.
My head says we’re going backwards.kerleyFree MemberWe are not as backward as America no, but then America is incredibly backward in matters of race.
I also like Clive Lewis but I don’t think he is not someone who would win over the public.
Any clever party would already be doing that analysis as part of the candidate selection process. No could getting a brilliant leader internally for the Labour party if the public hate them.
boomerlivesFree Memberdespite my earlier post saying i’d never be a member, I just joined up
With those iron principles the Labour party’s future is assured.
frankconwayFull MemberRayner has now declared candidacy for deputy leader – but still nothing from RLB; does that suggest second thoughts on her part or the current leadership?
roneFull MemberPhillips was a complete car crash.
I’ve zero love for Marr – but her response on ‘rewinding’ Brexit would be the death knell for her.
(Although I think she’s changed her tune again from what I read this morning.)
kelvinFull MemberI think Rayner has already said she’s backing RLB… looks like they are timing her own announcement carefully… presumably with a eye to who the unions will refuse to nominate first.
As for Phillips, if saying that if Brexit turns out to be disaster than Labour could back joining the EU is so controversial, I don’t see how any leader is going to successfully navigate that kind of questioning. To be honest, the most practical answer is “the other nations will never accept us being full members, with all our special opt outs, again… a close relationship without veto or formal voting rights is all they can really offer us in future. As it happens, an economic rather than political closeness is pretty much what the British public seem to want as well.”
kelvinFull MemberClive Lewis… I like the bloke.
So do I. But, other than the obvious problem about England&Wales voters already noted, he does have a habit of using language that only appeals to people who already identify with being “of the left”, he doesn’t seem to know how to speak to the nation as a whole.
chestrockwellFull MemberAre we really more backward than America in this respect?
My heart would love to think we’ve moved on.
My head says we’re going backwards.I think you are bang on. I don’t think a black person would stand a chance atm of winning an election as Labour leader. Too easy to cast as unpatriotic, just as Corbyn was.
binnersFull MemberHas Rebecca Long Bailey been locked in the shed on the allotment?
big_n_daftFree MemberAbsolutely, but the cruel truth is that this massively racist country will never vote for a black leader.
I disagree
The first BAME PM will be a conservative, probably within 20years
(Based on 5-10 years of Johnson, a term or tow for labour and the conservatives having that churn of leaders as they did with Howard/Hague/IDS etc)
dazhFull Memberbut still nothing from RLB
I think she’s confirmed she’s standing, but hasn’t officially launched yet. Either she’s taking it for granted or there’s going to be some sort of massive fanfare with a barnstorming speech, video etc which she can use as an opportunity to distance herself from Corbyn without putting off the lefties.
As for Phillips, if saying that if Brexit turns out to be disaster than Labour could back joining the EU is so controversial, I don’t see how any leader is going to successfully navigate that kind of questioning.
FFS man give it up. Even if brexit is an unmititgated catastrophe, we’re not rejoining. It shouldn’t even be talked about let alone proposed as a future policy.
DrJFull MemberWe are not as backward as America no, but then America is incredibly backward in matters of race.
I’d say America is quite heterogeneous – some areas are very racist but black people (even black women!!) have held high office.
kelvinFull MemberThanks for the selective quoting Dazh. I hope I made it clear that, in my opinion, we’re never going to be a member state of the EU ever again.
dazhFull MemberThe only answer any potential leader should give to a question on rejoining is to ‘No’. It’s as simple as that really. Even Starner seems to have learnt that lesson and he’s the strongest remainer.
roneFull MemberHas Rebecca Long Bailey been locked in the shed on the allotment?
I think Jess might have the key. And even if she does escape – I think Jess might be ready to knife her in the front as she escapes.
kelvinFull MemberIt’s as simple as that really.
Nothing is ever that simple. Who knows what instability might hit the UK (and the EU) in future. Rejoining looks completely off the table to me… but I’m not looking to be PM, I can happily box myself into a corner, and then change my mind as the future unfolds… political leaders have to be far more careful of such absolute positions.
kerleyFree MemberIf they choose RLB they are finished. My wife, who is distant from the various leadership contenders (who there are, their history), took one look at her and thought she had come in from the HR dept. Then she heard her speak and it was all over.
roneFull MemberKerley and Kelvin do you have to post so close together my old-man brain can’t seperate the opinion. 🙂
DrJFull MemberNothing is ever that simple.
The question is not simple, but the answer is (even if it’s not true)
frankconwayFull MemberDazh – RLB has said nothing more committal than she’s considering standing; has publicly stated her support for Rayner as deputy leader.
If RBL does stand and supports Rayner for deputy, does that leave Burgon out in the cold? Let’s hope so.
As for the other deputy candidates….Dawn Butler – I’ve yet to hear her say anything either intelligent or intelligible; Khalid Mahmood – don’t know anything about him so Google tells he is ant-Blairite and member of comrade len’s union.
Poor quality field with Rayner the best of a bad bunch.binnersFull MemberRLB has said nothing more committal than she’s considering standing; has publicly stated her support for Rayner as deputy leader.
Just a collection of vacuous, meaningless platitudes. Its even accompanied by a photo of some miners
kerleyFree MemberDoes the Labour leader have to be a currently elected Labour MP?
frankconwayFull MemberBinners – RLB’s recent use of ‘transformative’ reminds of a dalek ‘….transformative, transformative….’
It’s a wordy article but says nothing.
Why am I am not surprised?dazhFull MemberThen she heard her speak and it was all over.
I’ve said from the start RLB is the wrong choice for the left. By any measure, and especially after her speech today, Rayner is the better candidate. I’m sure even RLB knows that so I can only assume that the only reason Rayner isn’t standing is because she doesn’t want to, probably because she thinks she’s better placed to step in after the next election. If that’s the case then fair enough but it’s a massive gamble as many in the party may not thank her for not stepping up when she was needed.
ransosFree MemberJust a collection of vacuous, meaningless platitudes.
Has she been taking lessons from Jess Phillips?
DrJFull MemberJust a collection of vacuous, meaningless platitudes.
Well, “get Brexit done” seemed to work, so maybe vacuous meaningless platitudes are what’s required?!
binnersFull MemberAnd right there is your problem. The labour party just doesn’t get it. The genius of ‘Get Brexit Done’ and ‘Take Back Control’ as political messages?
They are many things. Meaningless platitudes they most certainly are not
By contrast, the labour ‘message’ was a sprawling, rambling incomprehensible mess. The Tory’s was 3 words. Did you miss which one delivered a thumping great majority?
roneFull MemberBy contrast, the labour ‘message’ was a sprawling, rambling incomprehensible mess. The Tory’s was 3 words. Did you miss which one delivered a thumping great majority?
How dare Labour not distill Brexit down to a soundbite.
There wasn’t ever a simple solution for Labour. Labour’s position reflected the complexity of the split in the party, the electorate and the MPs. It was nevery going to be resolved. Even now I still argue with a Brexit Party candidate that she thinks it was simple – democratic vote and all.
Yet on here we have several thousand posts arguing it out.
Why would there be anything remotely simple about it?
(Besides this started years ago – when the term “Brexit” was first coined there was nothing on the “Remain” side that had that power.)
dazhFull Member‘Get brexit done’ wasn’t a meaningless platitude, it was a very simple and direct expression of the frustration with the efforts by some to ignore the 2016 referendum. It’s a far cry from a lot of the stuff coming from Phillips, and disappointingly Nandy, which essentially amounts to ‘being honest’ and ‘being better’ so that people can ‘trust us’. Anyone from Emma Goldman to Enoch Powell could sign up to those values. I’m all for simple messages, but there has to be something behind them, otherwise the public will see them for what they are.
binnersFull MemberHow dare Labour not distill Brexit down to a soundbite.
But they took the polar opposite approach. Completely scattergun. It was free broadband for everyone one day, Waspi women pension payments the next, Nationalising cheese the next, free kittens for every household the day after. Multi-billion pound spending commitments thrown about like confetti
Totally unfocussed, incoherent and unbelievable. Hardly surprising when you look at the collection of clowns responsible for it. I’ve seen cans of tinned fruit with more political and media savvy.
That needs to change, fast. Everyone’s going on about the leaders job, but everyone at the top of the party responsible for this debacle should be history already. A complete clearout of the millionaire Marxists.
roneFull MemberBut they took the polar opposite approach. Completely scattergun. It was free broadband for everyone one day,
Agree with that, on the surface.
But if you read the whole of the maneifesto it wasn’t really scattergun – it was pretty joined up with only the Waspi women being thrown in last minute.
Totally unfocussed, incoherent and unbelievable. Hardly surprising when you look at the collection of clowns responsible for it
Some of it was – not all.
Look it took 18 years to rid the Tories last time.
I think it’s very easy to criticise what has gone wrong here but it was obvious early on that Labour were going to be on the back foot and I very much doubt a change of leader would’ve ultimately made any difference in the end.
And to be honest – a bit of loyality might have bloody well helped.
However we are where we are. We need to move on.
Lesson actually learned: Respect the electorate even if you don’t agree with them.
P-JayFree MemberDoes the Labour leader have to be a currently elected Labour MP?
I wouldn’t think so, they will however have to be to be PM.
binnersFull MemberAnd to be honest – a bit of loyality might have bloody-well helped.
No MP has ever voted against his own party more than Jeremy Corbyn. He was never going to get loyalty, simply because…. well… does that need explaining?
And I’m sure he’d have got more if it hadn’t been so glaringly obvious how completely useless he was
roneFull MemberThat needs to change, fast. Everyone’s going on about the leaders job, but everyone at the top of the party responsible for this debacle should be history already. A complete clearout of the millionaire Marxists.
Well we will see.
I prefer Marxist millionaires to Neoliberal millioanaires. 😉
P-JayFree MemberAs for Brexit, really any potential leader should can state they were opposed to it if they were, but accept it’s happening and concentrate on ensuring the Government manages the best relationship with the EU for the sake of the majority, not the Tories and their Mates. Trying to win favour with some Unicorn idea we can unwind it now is insulting.
It’s still a very open wound of course, but we’re probably 5 years away from another GE, Brexit won’t be forgotten by then, but I suspect we’re been resigned to the new normal by then and won’t want to go through all this again.
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