Viewing 40 posts - 801 through 840 (of 1,579 total)
  • New Labour leader/ direction
  • rone
    Full Member

    It doesn’t really matter what a handful of people on this thread think. None of us have a clue who would go down best with the public. The policies are largely democratic so would be similar under any leader so the key thing is getting the leader the public want/will think is good.

    I like this to a point – but has to be reconciled with the membership.

    This is all actually a good thing – a few more members is great and more discussion and democracy of the Labour’s future is fine with me.

    RustySpanner
    Full Member

    No love for Clive Lewis then?

    I like the bloke.

    dazh
    Full Member

    No love for Clive Lewis then?

    Absolutely, but the cruel truth is that this massively racist country will never vote for a black leader.

    Watching Marr this morning it’s clear who the front runner is. Phillips was a complete car crash. Starmer has a job to do on brexit though. He wants to draw a line under it, but his opponents are not going to let him. Also Marr is a shockingly bad interviewer who barely conceals his contempt for anyone who isn’t a tory.

    I’m curious as to why RLB is so quiet and hasn’t officially entered the race yet. Either they think the backing from the big unions means it’s already in the bag, or second thoughts? I wonder whether she really doesn’t want it and is being pushed into it? I can almost see Lavery stepping in as the Corbynite candidate.

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    RustySpanner
    Full Member

    Absolutely, but the cruel truth is that this massively racist country will never vote for a black leader.

    I’m torn.
    I know someone I trust who has worked closely with him and can’t speak highly enough of the guy.

    Are we really more backward than America in this respect?

    My heart would love to think we’ve moved on.
    My head says we’re going backwards.

    kerley
    Free Member

    We are not as backward as America no, but then America is incredibly backward in matters of race.

    I also like Clive Lewis but I don’t think he is not someone who would win over the public.

    Any clever party would already be doing that analysis as part of the candidate selection process. No could getting a brilliant leader internally for the Labour party if the public hate them.

    boomerlives
    Free Member

    despite my earlier post saying i’d never be a member, I just joined up

    With those iron principles the Labour party’s future is assured.

    frankconway
    Full Member

    Rayner has now declared candidacy for deputy leader – but still nothing from RLB; does that suggest second thoughts on her part or the current leadership?

    rone
    Full Member

    Phillips was a complete car crash.

    I’ve zero love for Marr – but her response on ‘rewinding’ Brexit would be the death knell for her.

    (Although I think she’s changed her tune again from what I read this morning.)

    kelvin
    Full Member

    I think Rayner has already said she’s backing RLB… looks like they are timing her own announcement carefully… presumably with a eye to who the unions will refuse to nominate first.

    As for Phillips, if saying that if Brexit turns out to be disaster than Labour could back joining the EU is so controversial, I don’t see how any leader is going to successfully navigate that kind of questioning. To be honest, the most practical answer is “the other nations will never accept us being full members, with all our special opt outs, again… a close relationship without veto or formal voting rights is all they can really offer us in future. As it happens, an economic rather than political closeness is pretty much what the British public seem to want as well.”

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Clive Lewis… I like the bloke.

    So do I. But, other than the obvious problem about England&Wales voters already noted, he does have a habit of using language that only appeals to people who already identify with being “of the left”, he doesn’t seem to know how to speak to the nation as a whole.

    P-Jay
    Free Member

    forgot my NYR for a mo then,

    chestrockwell
    Full Member

    Are we really more backward than America in this respect?

    My heart would love to think we’ve moved on.
    My head says we’re going backwards.

    I think you are bang on. I don’t think a black person would stand a chance atm of winning an election as Labour leader. Too easy to cast as unpatriotic, just as Corbyn was.

    binners
    Full Member

    Has Rebecca Long Bailey been locked in the shed on the allotment?

    big_n_daft
    Free Member

    Absolutely, but the cruel truth is that this massively racist country will never vote for a black leader.

    I disagree

    The first BAME PM will be a conservative, probably within 20years

    (Based on 5-10 years of Johnson, a term or tow for labour and the conservatives having that churn of leaders as they did with Howard/Hague/IDS etc)

    dazh
    Full Member

    but still nothing from RLB

    I think she’s confirmed she’s standing, but hasn’t officially launched yet. Either she’s taking it for granted or there’s going to be some sort of massive fanfare with a barnstorming speech, video etc which she can use as an opportunity to distance herself from Corbyn without putting off the lefties.

    As for Phillips, if saying that if Brexit turns out to be disaster than Labour could back joining the EU is so controversial, I don’t see how any leader is going to successfully navigate that kind of questioning.

    FFS man give it up. Even if brexit is an unmititgated catastrophe, we’re not rejoining. It shouldn’t even be talked about let alone proposed as a future policy.

    DrJ
    Full Member

    We are not as backward as America no, but then America is incredibly backward in matters of race.

    I’d say America is quite heterogeneous – some areas are very racist but black people (even black women!!) have held high office.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Thanks for the selective quoting Dazh. I hope I made it clear that, in my opinion, we’re never going to be a member state of the EU ever again.

    dazh
    Full Member

    The only answer any potential leader should give to a question on rejoining is to ‘No’. It’s as simple as that really. Even Starner seems to have learnt that lesson and he’s the strongest remainer.

    rone
    Full Member

    Has Rebecca Long Bailey been locked in the shed on the allotment?

    I think Jess might have the key. And even if she does escape – I think Jess might be ready to knife her in the front as she escapes.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    It’s as simple as that really.

    Nothing is ever that simple. Who knows what instability might hit the UK (and the EU) in future. Rejoining looks completely off the table to me… but I’m not looking to be PM, I can happily box myself into a corner, and then change my mind as the future unfolds… political leaders have to be far more careful of such absolute positions.

    kerley
    Free Member

    If they choose RLB they are finished. My wife, who is distant from the various leadership contenders (who there are, their history), took one look at her and thought she had come in from the HR dept. Then she heard her speak and it was all over.

    rone
    Full Member

    Kerley and Kelvin do you have to post so close together my old-man brain can’t seperate the opinion. 🙂

    DrJ
    Full Member

    Nothing is ever that simple.

    The question is not simple, but the answer is (even if it’s not true)

    frankconway
    Full Member

    Dazh – RLB has said nothing more committal than she’s considering standing; has publicly stated her support for Rayner as deputy leader.

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/108833/excl-rebecca-long-bailey-dodge-key-meeting

    If RBL does stand and supports Rayner for deputy, does that leave Burgon out in the cold? Let’s hope so.
    As for the other deputy candidates….Dawn Butler – I’ve yet to hear her say anything either intelligent or intelligible; Khalid Mahmood – don’t know anything about him so Google tells he is ant-Blairite and member of comrade len’s union.
    Poor quality field with Rayner the best of a bad bunch.

    binners
    Full Member

    RLB has said nothing more committal than she’s considering standing; has publicly stated her support for Rayner as deputy leader.

    In her only public statement, she published a full page article in the Guardian, during the course of which she managed to say absolutely nothing at all.

    Just a collection of vacuous, meaningless platitudes. Its even accompanied by a photo of some miners

    kerley
    Free Member

    Does the Labour leader have to be a currently elected Labour MP?

    frankconway
    Full Member

    Binners – RLB’s recent use of ‘transformative’ reminds of a dalek ‘….transformative, transformative….’
    It’s a wordy article but says nothing.
    Why am I am not surprised?

    dazh
    Full Member

    Then she heard her speak and it was all over.

    I’ve said from the start RLB is the wrong choice for the left. By any measure, and especially after her speech today, Rayner is the better candidate. I’m sure even RLB knows that so I can only assume that the only reason Rayner isn’t standing is because she doesn’t want to, probably because she thinks she’s better placed to step in after the next election. If that’s the case then fair enough but it’s a massive gamble as many in the party may not thank her for not stepping up when she was needed.

    ransos
    Free Member

    Just a collection of vacuous, meaningless platitudes.

    Has she been taking lessons from Jess Phillips?

    DrJ
    Full Member

    Just a collection of vacuous, meaningless platitudes.

    Well, “get Brexit done” seemed to work, so maybe vacuous meaningless platitudes are what’s required?!

    binners
    Full Member

    And right there is your problem. The labour party just doesn’t get it. The genius of ‘Get Brexit Done’ and ‘Take Back Control’ as political messages?

    They are many things. Meaningless platitudes they most certainly are not

    By contrast, the labour ‘message’ was a sprawling, rambling incomprehensible mess. The Tory’s was 3 words. Did you miss which one delivered a thumping great majority?

    DrJ
    Full Member

    No, I just missed out what they actually meant.

    rone
    Full Member

    By contrast, the labour ‘message’ was a sprawling, rambling incomprehensible mess. The Tory’s was 3 words. Did you miss which one delivered a thumping great majority?

    How dare Labour not distill Brexit down to a soundbite.

    There wasn’t ever a simple solution for Labour. Labour’s position reflected the complexity of the split in the party, the electorate and the MPs. It was nevery going to be resolved. Even now I still argue with a Brexit Party candidate that she thinks it was simple – democratic vote and all.

    Yet on here we have several thousand posts arguing it out.

    Why would there be anything remotely simple about it?

    (Besides this started years ago – when the term “Brexit” was first coined there was nothing on the “Remain” side that had that power.)

    dazh
    Full Member

    ‘Get brexit done’ wasn’t a meaningless platitude, it was a very simple and direct expression of the frustration with the efforts by some to ignore the 2016 referendum. It’s a far cry from a lot of the stuff coming from Phillips, and disappointingly Nandy, which essentially amounts to ‘being honest’ and ‘being better’ so that people can ‘trust us’. Anyone from Emma Goldman to Enoch Powell could sign up to those values. I’m all for simple messages, but there has to be something behind them, otherwise the public will see them for what they are.

    binners
    Full Member

    How dare Labour not distill Brexit down to a soundbite.

    But they took the polar opposite approach. Completely scattergun. It was free broadband for everyone one day, Waspi women pension payments the next, Nationalising cheese the next, free kittens for every household the day after. Multi-billion pound spending commitments thrown about like confetti

    Totally unfocussed, incoherent and unbelievable. Hardly surprising when you look at the collection of clowns responsible for it. I’ve seen cans of tinned fruit with more political and media savvy.

    That needs to change, fast. Everyone’s going on about the leaders job, but everyone at the top of the party responsible for this debacle should be history already. A complete clearout of the millionaire Marxists.

    rone
    Full Member

    But they took the polar opposite approach. Completely scattergun. It was free broadband for everyone one day,

    Agree with that, on the surface.

    But if you read the whole of the maneifesto it wasn’t really scattergun – it was pretty joined up with only the Waspi women being thrown in last minute.

    Totally unfocussed, incoherent and unbelievable. Hardly surprising when you look at the collection of clowns responsible for it

    Some of it was – not all.

    Look it took 18 years to rid the Tories last time.

    I think it’s very easy to criticise what has gone wrong here but it was obvious early on that Labour were going to be on the back foot and I very much doubt a change of leader would’ve ultimately made any difference in the end.

    And to be honest – a bit of loyality might have bloody well helped.

    However we are where we are. We need to move on.

    Lesson actually learned: Respect the electorate even if you don’t agree with them.

    P-Jay
    Free Member

    Does the Labour leader have to be a currently elected Labour MP?

    I wouldn’t think so, they will however have to be to be PM.

    binners
    Full Member

    And to be honest – a bit of loyality might have bloody-well helped.

    No MP has ever voted against his own party more than Jeremy Corbyn. He was never going to get loyalty, simply because…. well… does that need explaining?

    And I’m sure he’d have got more if it hadn’t been so glaringly obvious how completely useless he was

    rone
    Full Member

    That needs to change, fast. Everyone’s going on about the leaders job, but everyone at the top of the party responsible for this debacle should be history already. A complete clearout of the millionaire Marxists.

    Well we will see.

    I prefer Marxist millionaires to Neoliberal millioanaires. 😉

    P-Jay
    Free Member

    As for Brexit, really any potential leader should can state they were opposed to it if they were, but accept it’s happening and concentrate on ensuring the Government manages the best relationship with the EU for the sake of the majority, not the Tories and their Mates. Trying to win favour with some Unicorn idea we can unwind it now is insulting.

    It’s still a very open wound of course, but we’re probably 5 years away from another GE, Brexit won’t be forgotten by then, but I suspect we’re been resigned to the new normal by then and won’t want to go through all this again.

Viewing 40 posts - 801 through 840 (of 1,579 total)

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