Hi all, I’ve been lucky enough to build up a new 2021 Hightower cc v2, selling my 2015 Nomad cc v3 to help fund.

After a short setup up ride and then a longer route yesterday the Hightower feels great, stable and controllable, great pedal platform, lovely bike, however, I do find it quite heavy?
It weighs 32.5lbs with pedals, I was expecting it to be lighter tbh. My nomad 3 was just bang on 29lb.

Both similar builds component wise, XT, fox 36, carbon cockpit. ~1800g Wheelset. Bigger volume tyres on the HT but no supergravity casing, Mary/dampf combo.

Not noticing the weight on the descents at all and on the smaller inclines the Hightower feels fine, the weight is just much more noticeable or sluggish in feel on the longer steeper gradients (obvious I suppose). I live in South Wales so lots climbing.

I’m coming off the back of a decent summer on the road bike so don’t think it’s a fitness thing.

Wondering if anyone else has found these newer 29er trail bikes to be noticeably heavier than previous bikes?
Is it something you accept versus the more planted ride?

Regardless, still looking forward to more rides on the Hightower, it’s beautiful thing. Just wish the weather would dry up a bit!

live in South Wales

Just wish the weather would dry up a bit!

😁😁

Do Santa Cruz not give frame weights? Seems quite weighty for a carbon bike; 3.5lbs is a fair chunk to haul up a long climb. I have no experience of a 29’er FS and not in the market for one so unhelpfully I don’t know if this is the norm.

The weather is horrendous, just incessant this month. And the clocks changing will not help.

N3 was light. Newer SC are heavier and 29ers make them feel a bit dead compared to the N3. Give it time though, there is way more grip, stability and plusher, predictable suspension. There is a good reason they ditched the higher link suspension in trade for weight.

What does the frame alone weigh for a V2?

I tend to find any mountain bike will feel slow and heavy after riding a road bike for a while. Usually takes a few weeks to get back into it.

Thanks all, some good points.

I walked into the South Wales weather one🙈

Road bike vs off-road Mountain bike climb is a fair point.

Called in my lbs just now who built it up, they felt the only area to easily shed weight is my front tyre choice (2.6 Magic Mary). They were not surprised with my feedback about weight, saying new trail bikes are all now generally heavier. Some of the SC complete C models they sell confirmed this on the shop scales. I think the SC website quoted figures are very optimistic.

Anyway added some more weight to mine with a proguard bolt on fender but least I’ll be able to see now 😂

Can’t wait for another ride tomorrow so it’s all good 🤘

Wondering if anyone else has found these newer 29er trail bikes to be noticeably heavier than previous bikes?

Sometimes.

My Orange Stage 4 is 30lbs with pedals, with similar weight wheels and tyres as you – but a Fox 34 fork.

My Stage 6 is about the same weight as your Hightower, with more enduro kit: Supergravity rear tyre, insert, X2 shock.

I’m surprised at that actually, but have also been told the Hightower pedals very well. Are you happy you’ve got the shock set up optimally?

I think the shock is setup pretty close, running about 25% sag. It does pedal efficiently for sure, seat angle also feels much better than the nomad 3.

Had an Orange alpine 160 years ago, that was around 33lb, that definitely didn’t pedal well, but descended like a demon with a coil ccdb, great bike.

I think the SC website quoted figures are very optimistic.

See comments on the Cotic Flare Max thread 🙂

Yes the newer carbon frames are definitely heavier. I moved most of my components from my V1 cc bronson over to my Hightower cc and it’s gone from 29 ish to 31 ish. Only time Ive noticed it is lifting it through stiles but it does mean when I replace a component I’m now trying to go ever lighter with it in the hope of getting it back down. I went for 28 hole plus 240s dt Swiss hubs as I knew they’d gone a little porkier.

I wouldn’t get too hung up about weight, there are so many factors into overall weight and where it is located, same with tyres, get a good set that gives you grip and sheds mud that weigh a few hundred grams more than a set that slip and loose traction, and struggle to shed and you’ll be a lot slower over a ride.

You’ll find a way of working it, just takes a while with a lot of bikes.

It irritates me that bikes are getting heavier and we are supposed to accept it and go with it. I see no reason for them to get heavier, if anything they should be getting lighter as the technology improves. As the OP says why does a current Hightower weigh more than an old nomad? To me it suggests the engineers havent sweated the details in the design enough so have overbuilt it and used too much material rather than good design / engineering

It irritates me that bikes are getting heavier and we are supposed to accept it and go with it.

We’ve made the wheels and tyres bigger, we want everything to be tougher and we’ve probably got a piggyback shock and more burly fork.

They’ve done well to keep a lot of them around 30lbs.

I can see why the OP is a bit miffed though, considering the price of those CC Santa Cruz frames.

It irritates me that bikes are getting heavier and we are supposed to accept it and go with it. I see no reason for them to get heavier,

Bigger wheels and (tougher) tyres, longer droppers, coil shocks, stiffer/beefier forks, bigger brakes, tyre inserts, and tougher frames.

It irritates me that bikes are getting heavier and we are supposed to accept it and go with it. I see no reason for them to get heavier, if anything they should be getting lighter as the technology improves. As the OP says why does a current Hightower weigh more than an old nomad

Answer to that is obvious. They want us to buy e-bikes.

Bigger wheels and (tougher) tyres, longer droppers, coil shocks, stiffer/beefier forks, bigger brakes, tyre inserts, and tougher frames.

bikes don’t usually come with inserts or coil shocks for trail bikes. I don’t buy the wheel size change either as 29ers were sub 30lb years ago with no problem. My old 29er weighed sub 30 lbs with dropper seat post and pikes on the front . My wife’s ibis mojo hd3 is 29lbs and that’s an enduro bike.  I would also question why a Hightower trail bike needs to be burlier than the nomad that was an enduro bike. It’s no as of natural trails have got harder. The trails in the park district have been the same for decades

I find it quite obvious why bikes got heavier on the last few years:
– the trails are the same, but are being riden faster. This raises the stress on equipment
– frames are more reliable today, one used to see way more cracked frames a few years ago
– burlier, heavier forks
– bikes are being specced with more realistic, generally heavier tyres
– bigger brake rotors

My current bike weights 17kg with a spare tube. It’s the best climbing FS I’ve ever had, it’s totally reliable and capable of doing anything from long climbing days to DH laps. Geometry and suspension kinematics are more important than weight for climbing, but people are still very attached to that

So I had a look around and disappointingly few people weigh their frames. 🙁 But since the latest Tallboy is heading towards a pound heavier than the old one it follows that the Hightower should be similarly heavier. My V1 Hightower was 5.9lbs in XL so I imagine the V2 is heading towards 7. Suppose if the new linkage is heavier fair enough, but it didn’t need to be stiffer or stronger. For comparison Spesh are claiming 6.1 for the new S4 size Stumpy Evo and a Whyte S150 carbon is 8.

I see the aluminium Hightower frame is 9.7lbs…holy cow!

For me when a bike goes over 30 it starts to get a bit draggy and spoil the fun. Although this of course depends what it’s being used for.

It irritates me that bikes are getting heavier and we are supposed to accept it and go with it. I see no reason for them to get heavier, if anything they should be getting lighter as the technology improves.

Let’s also not forget just how much longer bikes are now. My 2016 size large carbon stumpjumper was pretty light for a 29er at around 28lbs but then it had something like 430mm reach and 1100mm wheelbase. Most size large frames now are heading towards 500mm reach and 1250+ wheelbase.

I don’t think an extra 30mm (or whatever) of top + down tube makes a lot of difference, although perhaps it generates more leverage and therefore needs to be built stronger.

OP also has 2.6” 29er tyres. Of course it’s gonna be heavy. But on the flip side, big tyres on big bikes feel ace.

SC are not really competitively weighted or even have the most progressive geometry. Great customer service though. Things move on – look at what specialized and nukeproof are now doing

My current bike weights 17kg with a spare tube. It’s the best climbing FS I’ve ever had, it’s totally reliable and capable of doing anything from long climbing days to DH laps

Bloody Nora, that’s insane.
When you say ” long climbing days” what are we talking?

It seems to me the typical buyer of a decent spec bike, expects Enduro performance on the downs, whether it’s got 120mm or 1600mm travel. I don’t think this was always the case. Couple that with big 29er wheels and things are sluggish, unless it’s doing what it’s been designed for, which is narrower than it used to be

Our big travel Enduro gnar is a touch heavier. More importantly it feels quite bland and undynamic at slow speeds, it wallows a touch when you want to sprint.
It’s a 170mm LLS 29er compared to be a 130/150 27.5 not as LLS predecessor from the same brand.

The old lighter, shorter travel bike is more engaging, fun and puppy-like on the trail.

The 29er however is in a league of its own when you wind it up to speed on steep or nadgery terrain. It’s far more capable at the extreme edge of riding. I’m glad it’s overbuilt, it encourages such huge hits and drops.

But it feels odd just pootling, not as nice uphill (mainly tyres + longer travel imo) and feels quite chunky.

Horses for courses.

@thegeneralist , I’ve done several 1500m gain days with it, between 40 and 65km. Most weeks have a 800/1000 day at least.
It will likely get even heavier, as I’m considering DH casing tyres when the current ones die

Edit: next Sunday have a +1950m, 65km ride on the books. Not too worried about it

Sounds like you need a decent 29er hardtail. Mine flys up and down hill. Absolutely perfect for South Wales trails like Cwmcarn etc.

I’ve done several 1500m gain days with it, between 40 and 65km. Most weeks have a 800/1000 day at least.
It will likely get even heavier, as I’m considering DH casing tyres when the current ones die

Edit: next Sunday have a +1950m, 65km ride on the books. Not too worried about it

Ah ok, that sounds doable. I’m still after a dream bike that can do biiig long rides and still be good fun downhill. I’ve currently got one bike that does biiig long rides( Anthem) but sucks on the downs, especially when tired.
And an Enduro which is great on the downs but is just too heavy and grippy to do proper big rides.

Ho hum. Maybe I need an EBike with two batteries 😈👿

@dan45a stick with it, I’d suggest.

I bought my 2020 when they first came out so I’ve had it over a year I think and it took a while to get used to – I don’t struggle with it feeling heavy now – despite the fact that on paper it is – bear in mind mine is the alloy frame, which I seem to recall I weighed at 4.6kg bare.

These things are all relative though as my previous bike was an Orange Stage 4 that @chakaping now owns as per above – that bike, in my eyes, was ‘light’ so the Hightower is ‘acceptable’.

I’m also usually pretty dialled in with suspension however the Hightower took a fair bit of work to get into the sweet spot.

Much like stated above – it does weigh a lot on paper and espcially when comparing with trail bikes of old however it is:

– massively strong.
– massively, just, massive. theres just so much more, of everything. Fork, tyre, frame tube, bar width. It all adds up
– very, very competent downhill. I am certain I’m faster downhill on this than when I had a proper downhill bike in the early 2000s.
– very good for long, technical, hard rides.

Im shocked to here that the Hightower is a bit of a pig to climb , My Mega was a right dog to climb until i changed the wheels and even then I run dh casing maxxis front and back (Lakes and Peaks riding they are a must) Its just shy of 31 lb and ive done some real lakes epics this last 4 months some big 6000foot days and 30+ miles .I thought the Hightower would have been perfect for this type of stuff , long saddle days and a happy descender more playful than its big brother.. id not rush to change just yet

@stevedoc perhaps my post above is not too clear but I certainly do not find it a pig to to climb at all – once I got the shock setup dialled I love it. It has massive traction on loose stuff and a good low, seat forward riding position.

It just took longer than some of my other bikes to “click”.

I seem to recall in the pink bike mega test last year they found basically the same – pretty much heaviest on test on the scales but felt (and was) fastest on the clock, up and down.

Got to make the frame beefier so they don’t go bankrupt on frame warranty 😂

I think the last gen frame designs
At SC were epic. Wonder how much of the latest redesign was influenced by VPP patent running out and needing differentiation.

Sure they will sort weight on next gen in a year or two.

Recently upgraded from a v1 to v2 HT frame. On paper it’s heavier (definitely beefier around the BB area) but not noticed it when riding and the improved pedalling position makes a big difference on the climbs.

I was about to jump in and say ‘who said it was a pig to climb with’ but snotrag came back to say that’s not what he said. Yes it’s heavier than the v1 Bronson and no it doesnt climb as well as the Ripmo I demo’d but then nothing else does. However, its far from a pig to climb and I would say it does so as well as the other bikes with a similar setup that I tried out.

frogstomp
Full Member
Recently upgraded from a v1 to v2 HT frame. On paper it’s heavier (definitely beefier around the BB area) but not noticed it when riding and the improved pedalling position makes a big difference on the climb

So then – give me some reasons why I should trade in my 2018 Hightower LT for a new Hightower – Mrs Yoshimi will want some definitive reasons

So then – give me some reasons why I should trade in my 2018 Hightower LT for a new Hightower – Mrs Yoshimi will want some definitive reasons

@yoshimi – I loved my old HT (had it 4 years) but the rear end had a tendency to get hung up on square-edge stuff (which I put down to poor technique, too much braking etc.) – the new suspension layout is way better in this respect.

As mentioned, the pedalling position is a great improvement as is the general stability from being LLSer – I’m not a great jumper but on my first ride I was clearing table-tops to half way down the downslope where I’d previously struggled to make it to the transition.

Overall, just better overall..

My old 29er weighed sub 30 lbs with dropper seat post and pikes on the front

So did mine, but the replacement 29 wheelbase is 100mm longer, just for starters. The bars and dropper have gained 20mm, the cassette from 46T to 50T, the tyres about 300g in total, the dinky 100g stem replaced by a 150mm one (that does bend like a bu99er) etc.

And interestingly my original 2014 Pike weighs 1800g while the newer 2016 is 1900g, both at 140mm.

@Snotrag. I misunderstood the original post and did reply to the thread an hour ago but it failed to post?

I’d say as a comparison my Mega is lighter than friend xl builds or the mega 290 bird am9 and bronson. It took me an age to set the mega up how I wanted it running close to 37% sag to get the full travel. Are you running it in the high or low setting?

@stevedoc no worries – I’d bet your Carbon Megatower is probably a similar wieght to my Hightower with it being the paupers alloy version.

I can’t tell you a percentage but I did have to really test it to dial in shock pressure and amount of volume spacer and it runs a lit more than the ‘typical’ 25% sag, well into 30 something I’d bet for it to feel right. I guess that is the sweet spot for the suspension design.

I run mine in High – I tried Low, and whilst it ws admittedly impressively good at carving smooth berms, it just didnt work for trail riding including techy climbs, natural trails. I have 165mm cranks but run my Fox 36 is 150mm though, maybe going up to 160mm might make it a little more usable in low.

165MM CRANKS is that why if feels sluggish ? how tall are you , I used to run 170mm on my old hardtail that felt slow as daft as it sounds when i changed to 175 it became better. I run the MT in high and id sit and spin all day long on it.

I’ve got a Alloy Ht2 and find it one of the best climbing bikes I’ve had.

It is heavy but doesn’t ride like it is.

I’ve got mine set up in low with 160mm fork and 175mm cranks and it’s perfect.

If I had the lungs I’d be keeping it.