Looking at replacing my Sweet Protection Bushwhacker with another of the same, but newer version as it fits really well and I like the look.

Current one is a MIPS, so same again or get a non-MIPS version at about 1/2 the price??

So, as per the title, MIPS or not??

Cheers

It’s your brain, only you can decide its value 😉

MIPS.

I wouldn’t go for MIPS personally. Overpriced for something I’ve never needed. But it’s your ‘ead.

Dez, I think the point is that you don’t need it until you need it!

One of those things that you’ll never be able to say conclusively if it makes / made any difference. I have a giro montaro which has MIPS, have had a couple of minor offs where I knocked my head and couldn’t tell you if the MIPS did anything.

I think there is enough evidence to say that it does make a difference. Of course there will always be naysayers who will have anecdotal reports of how it doesn’t do anything, or it makes things worse, but the evidence is there that MIPS is better than no MIPS to protect your noggin/neural substrate from rotational forces that are increasingly being implicated in the long term effects of concussion. Even if you don’t take the evidence of a single centre research trial – such as that reported here: https://www.bikeradar.com/news/university-ranks-helmets-for-safety-mips-helmets-come-out-on-top/ – then I think any reasonable overview of research to date would recognise a general trend in favour of slip planes as having a protective effect against concussion.
Just like the general trend is for the research base to show that concussion is a bigger deal than previously thought. The trend is definitely not erring towards “go ahead, knock yerself out”.

I can be here all week 😉

My last two helmets didnt have Mips (one piss pot, one full face)

My new two helmets (one piss pot, one full face) both have Mips

Now your never going to know if you need it until you need it but mine only cost an extra £20 over the price of the old version without Mips

Its up to you if you think its worth it but with your helmet at almost twice the price for the Mips version id be tempted to go with non Mips until the Mips version’s price comes down

The wife had a really bad cycle accident when someone on a road group ride came off right in front of her going downhill at speed. She had nowhere to go and went over the top.

She landed badly – small bleed to her brain; broken collar bone; fractured cheek bone; 3 broken ribs & 2 broken fingers.

She had a good helmet too a Lazer Z1.

This happened 9 months ago & although all of her physical injuries healed after about 3 months – she unfortunately has Post Concussion Syndrome – which was unknown to me & is a real life changer. Her activities are very limited now as it tires her out & overloads her brain. Watching TV, going into supermarkets of any busy places causes her to have stress in her head.

It can apparently last for months or even years. There seems no logic as to who can get it. She may never cycle again.

Needless to say my new helmet is the new Giro MIPS helmet. As someone said – you never know if you need it – until you need it!

^^ Very sorry to hear that mate.

I’m sure we all wish here a speedy recovery from Post Concussion Syndrome. I’d not heard of that before either.

johnhighfield – best of luck to your wife for her onward recovery. If she can access support from a decent neuropsychology department I’d recommend it. Getting good advice on symptoms and their management, and a focus on fatigue management for PCS, are good priorities.

the point is that you don’t need it until you need it!

Like how you don’t need to go riding, after a ride that you die on?

It has no bearing weather I buy helmet or not. My previous previous helmet had it, I crashed & dented it, the replacement didn’t, I crashed & dented it. The current one does, i’m sure i’ll crash & dent that too.

I would actually prefer it without, as I find you have to do them up a lot tighter than a normal lid, as it slips about. This gives me a pressure headache.

I was looking to get MIP’s in my latest helmet, even ordered a MIPS helmet but the fit was shite (looked ok inthe shop), so I ended up replacing getting a non-MIPS one that fit . I’m not suggesting the fit is down to MIP’, but I’d put fit as the higher priority

After having a serious concussion (amongst other serious injuries) and not remembering a week in hospital (possibly the best way to spend a week in hospital) I’d go mips. Didn’t get one when i replaced the helmet as the store I walked into didn’t have any. Waiting to see it the bontrager new system is all it is cracked up to be, if so I’ll lash out for a new one even thougn the older one is only a few month old.

I had heard that MIPs is only of real benefit with a full face helmet. A regular helmet will still move around to a degree on your head if you crash, hence providing much of the MIPs benefit, whereas a full face won’t as much, hence MIPs is more beneficial there.

John Highfield – Bloody Hell!! sorry to read that. All the best to you both.

MIPS it is

Cheers

And then there’s Trek’s Wavecell technology (vaunted, not that long ago, as being the biggest change in cycling for 30 years).

It makes some bold claims for significant improvements in helmet safety but I’m not sure there’s much real world experience out there.

So MIPS would’ve prevented the concussions mentioned in this thread? Hmm.

PJay

And then there’s Trek’s Wavecell technology

Do they do a MIPS version? 😉

Do they do a MIPS version? 😉

The don’t currently appear to be the best of friends; just come across this – https://www.pinkbike.com/news/mips-says-wavecel-performance-falls-far-below-bontrager-claims.html

Yes MIPS if it’s available in the helmet of your choice/ best fit then would seem sensible. I have a bonty mips helmet that iirc was c £50 so they don’t have to be mega cost. I have had a few concussions, none because of bike crashes though and they all take a bit of time to get over. If MIPS makes the difference in a concussion type crash, then it has to be worth the extra over a non-mips helmet.

johnhighfield -all the best for a speedy and full recovery for your wife

johnhighfield – best wishes to your wife and you, I hope she makes a full and swift recovery.

I am loathe to open up the whole helmet debate, just in the case of MIPS I think it’s important to note that it is a marketed product in itself and is a convenient way for manufacturers to try and mark out their products as better / safer than those without – and justify an additional cost. There may well be some benefits based on solid research and testing but in the real world it is going to be next to impossible to say that MIPS was a decisive factor in the effectiveness of a helmet in a given collision because you don’t have the exact same collision to compare against with a different helmet… but god knows this has been discussed ad infinitum.

On a purely practical level its worth trying the lid on, the MIPs internal cage is smooth plastic so you might find it more sweaty or uncomfortable to wear. other than that, you need to decide if its something you want to pay for.

discussed ad infinitum

Keeps this site going 😉

It’s your head, only you can decide whether you should go for MIPS or not. My view on it is that you only have one brain and you should aim to protect it as much as possible, which is why I use MIPS helmets (Although the effectiveness of MIPS seems to be questionable depending on who you speak to)

Many thanks for your best wishes for the wife. She is now getting support from a group called ‘Headway’ who deal with head injuries. Ironically when discharged from hospital they just said she had a ‘minor’ bleed & it should re-absorb in about 2 weeks. She had follow-ups at the fracture clinic & physio – but nothing for her head. By all accounts some people get Post Concussion Syndrome & some don’t.

She had a really good helmet – Lazer Z1 – so I would have hoped it would have given her adequate protection.

MIPs may not have helped her – but given what she is going through it’s worth doing every thing to limit potential head injuries. As for not wearing a helmet – I’ve smashed 2 MTB- ing & 2 on the road…..

I now have a non mips ixs trigger. I had previously two mips helmets, but I don’t like the way they slide around on your head. (I know that’s what they are designed to do)

Stif have the MIPS carbon version cheaper than the standard version at the moment. I just replaced my Bushwhacker with a Bushwhacker II. Great helmets.
Not sure about the price premium for a piece of plastic, and it does make your head sweat more, but if it works…..

I have a mips montaro and it doesn’t slide around? There are breakaway tabs holding the liner.

discussed ad infinitum

Keeps this site going 😉

The constant repetitive conversation is indeed a concussion indicator 🙂

Did I mention that constant repetitive conversation is indeed a concussion indicator ?

Just came to me, I remember someone once told me that constant repetitive conversation is a concussion indicator.

So MIPS would’ve prevented the concussions mentioned in this thread? Hmm.

No, well maybe.

MIPS only helps with rotational impacts. I had concussion from a direct landing on the top of the head. Wouldn’t have made a difference.

I have doubts that many MTB head injuries are of the rotational kind. MIPS I believe came about from American Football where they constantly bash heads together and typically that would be blows to the side causing the head to turn.

There’s vastly more benefit in the helmet itself than the MIPS part. The latter mainly puts a premium on the price for a simple bit of plastic and a licence fee.

My new expensive MIPS is not as comfy as my old lids. Tend to wear the old ones 😵 Try before you buy as there is a lot of plastic in there.

Of course there could a rotational element in MTB or any bike accident..It might not be that severe depending on the nature of the accident…but that is the point…we don’t get to choose when we have an accident or if we do how it happens, so you cannot determine wether or not you need a helmet at all….its insurance. But the amount of impact absorption and the benefit helmets provide has been measured and is quantifiable and known and is affective in reducing the impact of an accident to much reduced levels of risk …of course you can only test for a limited number of crash scenario’s and quantify the effectiveness of the helmet in those anticipated scenario’s and if you do have a crash then you’re into luck as to how things pan out, but you’re better off with a helmet than not.

The premium you pay goes to fund the research – the helmet manufacturers would have to pay a licence fee to use the MIPS approval and incorporate the benefit of the research in their helmet designs…you don’t think all those people in lab coats and that expensive test machinery comes for free do you?? And simple plastic…well simple to the untrained and uneducated eye of those of us who do not work in the labs testing these things maybe, but clearly these things are considerately designed utilising research and testing so not as simple as you might think.

have doubts that many MTB head injuries are of the rotational kind. MIPS I believe came about from American Football where they constantly bash heads together and typically that would be blows to the side causing the head to turn.

In American football the helmets are smooth and low friction so anything other than a direct head on impact would mean the helmets slide off each other and reduced to glancing blows which dissipates the energy away from the head probably little rotational element to alot of the impacts – more of a risk to the neck taken up with their neck braces as their helmets bounce off each other. I would imagine a key risk of rotation would come with an impact to the ground, especially if they’re at speed and sliding, where there is more friction between the helmet and Astroturf surface – so very similar scenario to an MTB or bike crash where you’d have forward momentum and your head will be sliding along a grippy tarmac surface or get caught up in a rock or something. It is far more challenging when the helmet has some friction against the impact surface that causes the rotational element.

Presumably the MIPS insert is reducing the friction between your head and the helmet when the helmet makes contact with the ground. So what difference does having lots of hair or being bald or having “stubble” make? Would wearing something like a silk beanie provide the same level of movement? (might not be practical in hot weather)

A non-full face helmet is going to move a lot in a fall anyway unless you have the chinstrap done up so tight you can’t open your mouth.

If the MIPS helmet isn’t as comfy as a non-MIPS and thus makes you less inclined to wear it then it’s not really doing its job is it?

I find mips just makes the shell of the helmet move about and I also agree with the above that to get a good fit I needed it tighter which gave me a pressure headache.
I gave my montaro mips to my daughter and it fits her head better.
I then went and tried on a bell super non mips which again didn’t suit my shape of head .
The lazer ultrax is what I’ve used the last 18mths and it is so comfortable.no headaches and I personally think whilst mips has been proven on a computer to help it’s by no means good enough for the marketing guys bold claims .

Any certified helmet will protect you but apart from massive improvement in styling has the helmet actually advanced .I think no.weve had disc brakes droppers 1x etc etc but the technology in helmets is ultimately still eps foam .

Bloody hell there’s a lot of misinformation and crap being bandied about on this thread.

Okay. First up, my bona-fides. Before I started doing this writing malarkey (and yes, I also write sciencey stuff too; I don’t just write about bikes) I was a research scientist, studying brain and spinal cord injuries, neuropathic pain and what have you. I have an MSc in molecular neuroscience, a PhD in neuroscience and I spent 6 years as a post-doctoral researcher in Bristol and Leeds. To a limited extent, I know what I’m talking about.

There’s a load of data to suggest that the *majority* of bicycle accidents actually contain substantial rotational forces, as either hitting the ground with a glancing blow or carreening into it head on generates rotational forces:
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1.  Otte D, Injury mechanism and crash kinematics of cyclists in accidents, 33rd Stapp Car Crash conference, (1989) SAE paper 892425.
2.  Larsen LB et al., Epidemiology of bicyclist’s injuries, IRCOBI conf., 1991: 217-230.

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There’s also plenty of data to suggest that the brain is actually quite good at weathering direct linear impacts (essentially, the brain is 80% water; water isn’t very compressible); it’s the shear forces caused by rotation that create issues within the delicate substructures, and physical analogues for the symptoms of concussion (it’s not all homogenous blancmange, you know). For example:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263935897_Why_Most_Traumatic_Brain_Injuries_are_Not_Caused_by_Linear_Acceleration_but_Skull_Fractures_are

In a nutshell, helmets that dissipate rotational forces are A Good Thing. The only reason that loads of helmets don’t is that the testing mechanisms currently in place don’t look for them – they’re designed to pass tests, and protecting your head is only secondary. The closer we can get to replicating actual injuries when it comes to helmet testing the better, and at present the tests that have been done all cite helmets with rotational protection as better than ones without (surprise surprise).

https://www.helmet.beam.vt.edu/bicycle-helmet-ratings.html

Which one is better? Well, I’ll leave that to you to decide. But IM (reasonably well informed) O, any helmet is better than none. One with a system to mitigate rotational forces is better than one without (based on all the evidence).

I’ve actually been to see MIPS, and I wrote an article about it in the magazine (it’s here: https://singletrackworld.com/2018/10/singletrack-issue-121-mips-youre-twisting-my-melon-man/). The following is based on my knowledge having been there, and not necessarily as an endorsement of MIPS over its rivals – not least because I haven’t ridden them enough, and I’ve not studied their evidence in enough detail.

MIPS is a system that can be retrofitted to loads of helmets, although they’ve now started to make MIPS specific ones with (eg) Bell and Giro. The pads that interact with your head sit over the plastic, so theoretically it should make no difference to helmet feel (although having ridden them, it certainly can do, but I don’t know why). If you have to torque the helmet down to stop it moving about then either the helmet itself is the wrong shape (try another) or MIPS isn’t for you, and you need to try an alternative. Clearly a helmet you hate isn’t going to help anyone.

But by torquing it down I suspect you’re getting rid of the precise thing that MIPS is designed to do, and if you do crash, you’ll simply be transferring the rotational impact to your skin (which has a limited amount of elasticity) and thence to your skull and brain.

MIPS and their co-horts are a good thing, and we will undoubtedly see more of them in the future as test become more stringent. This is to be encouraged. I don’t think it’s just a marketing scam.

Anyway, that’s my (substantially more than) 2p. As you were 🙂

Well MIP’S Probably saved me from a lot worse on Monday.
Out in Surrey hills, 25mph ‘ish’ straight in to a tree just after peeling off a fire road in to the single track.
BANG!
Bike went one way I went the other after headbutting the tree. Had the normal cuts and bruises to knees, shoulders, elbows, which have now turned a nice shade or Yellow 🙂 (XC rider so no pads).
Head was fine, a slightly sore neck, but no worse than sleeping with a cat on your head.
When i went to put the helmet back on to ride home, the MIPS was all twisted and caught in the vents of the helmet….. Done its job I’d say, Thank you very much.
Any new helmets will be MIPs for sure, and also might get some pads 🙂

Now if only my wrist could get some protection I wouldn’t need this brace and would be able to pick up my beer, or ride my damn bike soon!

Barney any safety benefit of mips surely has a massive range depending on helmet design.
Some helmets have such angled shells that negates any benefits mips may offer.
Sure it’s a case of the science and I’m happy to accept in certain situations it’s going to help .but I liken it to sticking a baby on board sticker in your car.

I also agree the standards helmets are tested are so out of date it’s hardly belieavable.
I just think if rotational forces are what mips are selling there design and beliefs on stick your neck out and redesign the entire helmet not just a insert.

I’ve been thinking about this a lot after going OTB and suffering a spinal injury in October. I don’t remember anything between ‘oh no…’ and lying on the ground with the sensation of my legs floating in the air unable to move anything except my head; pretty scary.

I was very lucky, no fractures, no permanent damage, I still have some mild nerve sensation in my hands – a useful reminder to be more careful in future. I wondered whether MIPS and/or a different helmet design to my Kask Rex would have made any difference?

Now I’m getting back on the bike, I wanted ‘the best’ TM and Bontrager’s Wavecel Helmet’s came along, but £200 for the Blaze is double the cost of last year’s Rally MIPS – worth it?

Checking the Virginia Tech tests Wavecel tops the list, except when you restrict it to mountain style helmets – the Blaze scores worse than the Garneau Raid MIPS, an £80 helmet Evans were selling off for £25 last year and now practically unobtainable (you can order direct but I couldn’t find any to try fitting) – why is the Blaze less good than their road helmets, weight, geometry?

In the end I plumped for the £60 Specialized Chamonix MIPS, one of only two mountain helmets to top the Virginia Tech and Consumer Reports’ crash tests (the other being the Garneau – see https://helmets.org/bikehelmetratings.htm).

Both haven’t tested lots of helmets and there are many notable omissions but also many well known models towards the bottom of the tables, so I opted to put my money in proven performance rather than taking a gamble.

There are many different reasons to choose a helmet – fit is most important – but whether you prioritize looks, features or safety is a personal choice. With my recent history performance came top, there’s not enough test data to make that reliable, there may we’ll be better helmets, but I think I’ve done my best given the unknowns/unknowable.

Now to concentrate on my decision making and riding skills to reduce the risk of it happening again….

Even before reading Barney’s bit up there, rotational forces have been something that have concerned me ever since having a discussion with an intensive care nurse who wouldn’t wear a helmet because of his perception that he’s seen too many patients who’d been wearing a helmet and had suffered torsional injures (I know, sample of one, no real data, etc).
This doesn’t affect my choice to pretty much always wear a helmet, but it did influence a recent replacement. I bought a MIPS helmet.

But it’s noticeably less ventilated than the similar non-MIPS version it replaced.

Next time round I’ll look at some of the less sweaty versions : MIPS SL that Specialized have put into a couple of helmets, or POCs Spin. Maybe Bontragers Wavecell.