Viewing 33 posts - 1 through 33 (of 33 total)
  • New Dura-ace and Ultegra Di2
  • Premier Icon markgraylish
    Free Member

    12 speed and “wiredless”.

    https://cyclingtips.com/2021/08/new-shimano-dura-ace-di2-r9200-and-ultegra-di2-r8100-everything-to-know/

    Anyone got their order in yet?

    Premier Icon markgraylish
    Free Member

    Interestingly, looks like the new groupsets will be Di2 only…

    Premier Icon Onzadog
    Free Member

    …but still has a rim brake option.

    Premier Icon lawman91
    Full Member

    Good old Shimano, nothing remotely interesting at all as usual. SRAM really have got them licked these days.

    Premier Icon yourguitarhero
    Free Member

    Wireless rim brakes??????????/

    Premier Icon crazy-legs
    Full Member

    Anyone got their order in yet?

    For when you need a new groupset in 2023… 😉

    Premier Icon plus-one
    Free Member

    I’m hoping the “must have new thing” buyers start flogging their lightly used 11 speed Dura ace at a good price 😉

    Premier Icon Klunk
    Free Member

    More Cardboard cranks…. think i’ll give it a miss as I’ve already got one Ultegra doorstop.

    Premier Icon ratherbeintobago
    Full Member

    All Di2.

    DA and Ultegra aren’t exactly aimed at utility cycling though…

    Premier Icon branes
    Full Member

    I’d be amazed if a mechanical Ultegra doesn’t appear at some point. Leaves a massive pricing hole in their range otherwise. Assuming Merlin are indicative of real world prices (but CV-19 I know), and 12 speed road doesn’t vary too much, currently 105 disc is £800 and Ultegra DI2 disc £2000. That’s a big hole that for a competitor to exploit, especially given the prevalence of Ultegra as the ‘sensible’ option vs. DA. Possible that DA stays DI2 only though I suppose.

    Premier Icon endoverend
    Full Member

    Would rather go Campy Record Mechanical than pay those prices for Ultegra level with batteries – maybe in 2025 when they’re available at 50% discount I’d consider it. At the moment there’s nowt wrong with a simple rim braked mechanical bike, not when the entry point to a mid range Ultegra equipped disc bike that weighs 8kg+ is going to be £6-7K…

    Premier Icon damascus
    Free Member

    @branes

    currently 105 disc is £800 and Ultegra DI2 disc £2000. That’s a big hole that for a competitor to exploit, especially given the prevalence of Ultegra as the ‘sensible’ option vs. DA.

    Exactly what I thought

    Premier Icon finbar
    Free Member

    After being uber dismissive of battery-powered shifting for the past decade I finally went Di2 earlier this year and I never ever want to go back to mechanical.

    All the new stuff works for me (with the rim brake version for now please) and I’d rather walk than use an SRAM groupset.

    Premier Icon reggiegasket
    Free Member

    yeah, the surprising bit was that they’ll be no mechanical Ultegra at all. That’s a big chunk of the bike market.

    Shimano will obviously try and move 105 into the 12spd/mechanical/disc slot but their current 105 version isn’t so pretty so it’ll definitely need an upgrade.

    Premier Icon kerley
    Free Member

    yeah, the surprising bit was that they’ll be no mechanical Ultegra at all. That’s a big chunk of the bike market.

    Not when looking at it is perspective. Ultegra does not make up a big chunk of the market by any definition. Sora, Tiagra and a bit of 105 is the big chunk of the market

    Premier Icon rOcKeTdOg
    Full Member

    Got my 12 speed GRX order in 👍

    Premier Icon soundninjauk
    Full Member

    Got my 12 speed GRX order in

    Has that been announced? I guess it is inevitable, will be interesting to see how they go with mechanical GRX options as I think there’s more sense in keeping that around than high end mechanical road groupsets.

    Premier Icon fossy
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    I’ll stick with my Dura Ace 7400 series, far sexier than this fugly stuff. That rear mech is blurgh.

    Premier Icon Haze
    Free Member

    Not much in there that makes me want to upgrade early

    Premier Icon aberdeenlune
    Free Member

    All makes sense no point having mechanical gear changes on a premium group set nowadays. Great that the shifters are wireless as this will make changing handlebars a bit easier. No issues for me if there ire a couple of cables between seatpost battery and mechs.

    I think it looks good. The price is scary though. No doubt there will be some discount to in time. May be a good time to buy 11speed Di2 at a discounted rate.

    Premier Icon branes
    Full Member

    Not when looking at it is perspective. Ultegra does not make up a big chunk of the market by any definition. Sora, Tiagra and a bit of 105 is the big chunk of the market

    I suppose the thing is, none of us really know. It’s quite possible that Shimano are seeing sales of DI2 Ultegra & DA already dominating. That said most new top end bikes I see now are disc, so I would have expected rim brakes to be the first to go – I think only Ineos are rim brake hold outs on the WT now? Somewhere like Wiggle would have a reasonable view for Sora and above I guess.

    Still seems like someone else could make a good living filling that 105->DI2 Ultegra gap though.

    Or perhaps they’ll keep making R8000 for a few years? That would be fine by me.

    GRX to go Microspline do you think?

    Premier Icon markgraylish
    Free Member

    Great that the shifters are wireless as this will make changing handlebars a bit easier.

    Good point! Now, if they could also make the swapping the hydraulic lines easy (ie without bleeding) and make some wireless Di2 XT flat bar shifter which are compatible with the Di2 mechs & batteries, then they solve my “next bike” quandary!

    I can’t decide whether I want a gravel bike or an xc mountain bike so if I have one frame/fork and drive train, then I could have two handlebars/shifter/brake levers and swap as needed. Would make road-trips or flying with the bike a lot easier than having to take two bikes with me!

    (Actually, that needs it’s own thread)

    Premier Icon Mister-P
    Free Member

    (Actually, that needs it’s own thread)

    It’s does not mean what you think it does.

    May be a good time to buy 11speed Di2 at a discounted rate.

    As the grey market that usually drives discounts is all but dry and 12 speed stuff won’t be available for a good while yet I’m not sure there will be bargains.

    Premier Icon Oblongbob
    Full Member

    Just got an ultegra di2 giant tcr and felt a wee bit miffed to have bought just as it’s all upgraded, but I’m guessing these will be like hens teeth for a while yet, and probably with a decent price hike. Ultegra di2 so far has been great for me. Mechanical is nice enough but the electric shifting is just so fast, accurate and useful with auto trimming etc.

    Premier Icon crazy-legs
    Full Member

    Great that the shifters are wireless as this will make changing handlebars a bit easier.

    Still got the hydraulic lines in there.

    That said, it was defintely the way to go; the increased integration, especially at the front end, is really spelling the end of cables.

    Premier Icon steve_b77
    Free Member

    That said, it was defintely the way to go; the increased integration, especially at the front end, is really spelling the end of cables.

    This, integrated bars and cable shifting just doesn’t work properly as the bends kill the routing.

    Like above, Ultegra and Dura-ace aren’t everyday mass market groupsets, so in theory they won’t go on everyday type bikes and given that nearly all top end bikes have integrated bars / stems and internal routing it makes sense – I’m sure the ¥298 billion / £1.96 billion Shimmao bike company have done their research 😉 and given that 13 out of 19 World Tour teams use Shimano on their integrated top end bikes you can be certain they know how it works.

    Also Di2 is frankly bloody amazing, charge it every couple of thousand km’s auto trimming, shifting under power etc. I honestly don’t see why people would stick with a bit of twisted stainless cable to shift gears, other than the “ooh look at me I use analogue gearing and it’s miles lighter and more accurate than your digital stuff” crowd.

    Premier Icon cookeaa
    Full Member

    GRX to go Microspline do you think?

    My reading was that these new 12 speed road groups aren’t microspline, they’re another standard again that uses a bigger diameter FH body that gives more working surface by effectively splitting the HG spline ‘blocks’. It doesn’t accommodate 10t sprockets but the Cassettes are actually backwards compatible and can be mounted on an 11 speed HG pattern freehub body.

    The new 12-speed cassettes do have a new spline pattern that’s backwards-compatible with existing 11-speed Shimano freehubs.

    (did I read that correctly?)…
    If that’s the case, that’s quite a positive IMO, as it facilitates easier upgrading for those already using 11 speed shimano hubs/wheels.

    I’d expect GRX 12 speed to use whatever Ultegra/DA are using for a cassette interface when it arrives, same for 105 mechanical 12 speed (if/when they produce that)…

    Realistically this just prompts the old “trickle down” of 11 speed stuff for the likes of me.
    I do wonder if a more affordable 11 speed, 105-Di2 group might be offered as part of a “Gap filling” effort from shimano?

    Premier Icon Klunk
    Free Member

    I honestly don’t see why people would stick with a bit of twisted stainless cable to shift gears, other than the “ooh look at me I use analogue gearing and it’s miles lighter and more accurate than your digital stuff” crowd.

    yeah **** paupers.

    Premier Icon branes
    Full Member

    Like above, Ultegra and Dura-ace aren’t everyday mass market groupsets, so in theory they won’t go on everyday type bikes and given that nearly all top end bikes have integrated bars / stems and internal routing it makes sense

    All true, but given the number of people that chose mechanical Ultegra over DA it still seems to me that they’ve left a massive gap where there’s a demand. Ultegra DI2 is insanely expensive – and that’s coming from someone who’s bought XTR and X01 groupsets in recent years. Maybe there’s a 105DI2 coming to fill that gap then?

    My speculation on the GRX microspline is more from the perspective that there’s more to gain from the 10 tooth on GRX 1x. Presumably they didn’t go MS for Ultegra and DI2 for a combination of backwards compatibility (not something that Shimano typically care about IMO if there are tangible benefits to dumping a previous standard), general reticence to go 1x on road and that 10T does lose a bit more power in the drivetrain.

    I’m kind of hoping that they do go MS on GRX, and that gravel sticks at 142 so that I can offload my 142mm XTR MS hub when the time comes…

    Premier Icon four
    Free Member

    I’m trying to pre order with Sigma who are taking delivery Oct 1st.

    Currently I run Ultegra Di2 and I’m upgrading to DA 12 – better brakes, wireless shifters, smoother shifting / cadence, slightly lighter.

    To me it’s worth the change.

    Premier Icon steve_b77
    Free Member

    Presumably they didn’t go MS for Ultegra and DI2 for a combination of backwards compatibility (not something that Shimano typically care about IMO if there are tangible benefits to dumping a previous standard), general reticence to go 1x on road and that 10T does lose a bit more power in the drivetrain.

    Nowt to do with backwards compatibility, Shimano have been using the same HG 8/9/10/11 (slight mod for 11 speed road) freehub configuration for donkeys, until the introduction of Microspline to get that 10t on there.

    Ultegra & DA are road group-sets and they’re more than satisfied that an 11 at the back is small enough – bar for all those weekend warriors who can spin out faster than a WT Pro when descending the mountainous regions of the UK 😉 and the 1x crowd isn’t what they’re aiming at with these group-sets; as SRAM proved so well, it’s just a bit shit for the target market.

    Yeah on GRX it makes sense what with 1x being popular off road and the cross-over with MTB group-sets.

    four
    Free Member
    I’m trying to pre order with Sigma who are taking delivery Oct 1st.

    Are you a dentist 😀

    Premier Icon aberdeenlune
    Free Member

    I think you’ve missed the point there Steve the 10 tooth cog is an inefficient gear so it’s great they are not going that way. Nobody’s asking for it it not even weekend warriors.

    Premier Icon steve_b77
    Free Member

    aberdeenlune
    Free Member
    I think you’ve missed the point there Steve the 10 tooth cog is an inefficient gear so it’s great they are not going that way. Nobody’s asking for it it not even weekend warriors

    I was being facetious 😉 hence the SRAM acknowledgement.

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