Currently running an Specialized E29 (160/160mm) but thinking on a new frame, either 140r/150f trail (SantaCruz Hightower 2020) or 160r/170f (Raaw Madonna V2) – which way would y’all go..?

Well kinda depends doesn’t it…. what riding do you do?

I blurred the lines and went for a Trek Slash 8 this time around. First ride felt very positive! Feels more like a long legged trail bike than a slack enduro sled.

I’m sure someone on here had a Raaw Madonna and said it was a bit of a handful?

Hi
I have a Trek Slash 9.9 and although it’s a fantastic bike I find it too much bike for most of what I do.
Mainly ride my Intense Carbine or Following so I would say unless you are seriously competing in enduro events go for a trail bike.
There are loads of massively competent ones out there which will do the odd enduro too
Cheers
Steve

Are you in Europe, racing a lot? If so the Raaw would be a great choice.

If not, I would go with the Hightower, or similar.

As someone who had a Raaw & sold it over my shorter travel bike, i don’t regret that choice. On 95% of UK races, the smaller bike is the faster one (and more fun).

I’ve justified both, short travel bike for most of the time and a long travel bike for uplift days, Scotland/France/Italy where I want a big bike.

Waiting for a Reactor 290 to turn up to replace a Smuggler, then there is a Privateer on order to replace the Enduro (had the enduro 2 years now, amazing bike, but fancied a change and since demoing a few bikes with longer reach, there was that as well (same reason for replacing the smuggler).

Was going to order a Norco Optic, but with the odd size shock (with no trail mode for climbing) and having to spend money at Evans, wen’t down the route of the Reactor.

Trail bikes now are very capable, they’ve moved towards the geometry found on enduro bikes from 2 years ago, as the enduro bikes have grown in length and have got slacker, they are definitely more compromised.

Will be interesting to see what Specialized are doing with the Stumpjumper, as their is rumors that they will be releasing a new version in Q2 this year.

Currently running a SC Megatower and find its been my go to bike for everything at the moment, even for the stuff I usually use the Tallboy for. For the more XC centric stuff I tend to leave the compression on but otherwise does a pretty good job. If I had only one bike though, I would probably go Hightower or Stumpjumper and just sacrifice the performance on the really gnarly stuff if you are not riding a park or Alps every weekend.

One bike in the UK? The mid-travel 29er for sure.

My issue with the current crop of “trail bikes” is that they morphed more and more into shorter travel enduro bikes, to the point of having almost the same build, tyres, forks, geo and weight. Just having less rear travel wont make the bike magically pedal and climb better. You can have a 130mm frame climbing like sh!t and a 160mm one doing really well, it comes more from the kinematics of the suspension.

You then hear more and more (see Pinkbike’s last field test as an example) on how X trail bike is not climbing much, if any, better than an enduro bike, while being worse on the downhills.

There are obviously exceptions, but this seems to be the current trend. People liked what they got on the enduro sleds, but pursued shorter travels under the, sometimes, illusion that would automatically mean better pedaling.

If one is in between trail-enduro, I’d just pick an enduro bike that pedals well, and there are plenty: AM9, Strive, Ransom, Slash, Stage 6, just to name a few. Just using lighter tyres (EXO, EXO+ at most) without inserts will likely have a bigger impact on climbs and you’ll still have all the available travel should you want to get roudy or have a trip to the Alps.

The only reason I got a “trail bike”, my Stumpy Evo, was for it’s capacity to bump up travel and become a full blown enduro bike.

I’m more of an All-Mountain guy myself, so an aggressive-XC frame with Freeride forks works for me.

“My issue with the current crop of “trail bikes” is that they morphed more and more into shorter travel enduro bikes, to the point of having almost the same build, tyres, forks, geo and weight. Just having less rear travel wont make the bike magically pedal and climb better. You can have a 130mm frame climbing like sh!t and a 160mm one doing really well, it comes more from the kinematics of the suspension.”

I know what you mean but there’s also a feel thing, the way the bike responds to pumping. It’s a bit like how some people prefer smaller wheels even if bigger ones are faster for most riders – less travel and smaller wheels both make you feel more directly connected to the ground, which can be more fun and sometimes actually faster too.

My 27.5 hardtail has almost enduro bike geometry (65 deg HA at sag) and it’s never as fast as a similar full-sus but that doesn’t stop it being fun. I’m tempted to take it on my next uplift trip rather than my 150mm 29er!

Both- obvs.

180mm gnarpoon, which you’ll never test to it’s limits.

140mm trail bike which you can blame your lack of speed on.

That’s what I do!

Just having less rear travel wont make the bike magically pedal and climb better.

If the suspension kinematics and geometries are broadly similar then yes, it will.

But you can certainly find a 4in travel bike that pedals worse and is heavier than a 6in travel one. I know ‘cos I’ve owned them.

Exhibit A – Kona Process 111
Exhibit B – Orange Stage 6

To be honest it comes down to the whole build, you could make the enduro be more trail than the trail bike with the right wheels, shock pressures, etc, so kind of depends on what you are wanting to build and where you are wanting to ride.

I moved from a T130 to a patrol, it did well in summer mode, but a bit sluggish now with large mud tyres and so on, i tend to use the hartail for everything else though, and plan on keeping the enduro as it does give more confidence and covers my lack of ability at certain stuff!