Okay, I have had a series 2 Discovery for about 6 years and whilst its been great its getting on a bit and I fancy something a bit newer!

The choice I have come down to is a 2004 series 3 Discovery or a 2004 Defender 110 County. Now both are roughly the same price and both have more seats than I currently have which would be ideal but am I going to miss the comfort of the Discovery if I go for the Defender or should I steer clear of any TD5 engines?

Oh and any offers for a P (1996) reg Discovery with a gas conversion with 123K miles gladly accepted?

Neither…go Japanese

Definitely not Japanese!! Ive got a TD5 90 defender – All the claims about the electrics and ECU being fallible to faults etc, have been proven to be completely unfounded. The Defender will be easier to work on yourself and relatively free of complicated systems such as the air suspension found on the Discovery. Motorway cruising in the defender might not be as comfortable as the discovery though!?

If it were me, and I was ferrying kids around etc, I'd probably go for the Disco. BUT, I'd be always wondering how good the defender would have been.

Sorry – not much help

I'm surprised you have to think about it. One almost passes for a car. One almost passes for a tractor. What do you need? A car or a tractor?

110 is a pig on the road as the Elephant said above.

5thElefant – Member

I'm surprised you have to think about it. One almost passes for a car. One almost passes for a tractor. What do you need? A car or a tractor?

As I said I have a Discovery but fancy a little bit extra load space and the extra seats. I also do a small amount of off-roading which the Disco is perfectly capable of but thinking of something a little more rugged!

Having had years of Land Rover work-based motoring, buy something else. Then again, I guess you are a rabid believer so won't even try something else.

Other manufacturers have taken their vehicles into the 21st Century you know. They have ride comfort and handling and proper seats and everything.

Pigface – Member

110 is a pig on the road as the Elephant said above.

As 99% of my miles are on the road it sounds like the Discovery will be my best option. It is the HSE version and auto so sounds like I will be turning into an old man!

Not much you can do about extra seats but there's a wealth of goodies you can upgrade a disco with. I still think the starting point is whether you need a car or a tractor. A tractor is a lot of fun 1% of the time.

EDIT – posted before I saw you last response!

As 99% of my miles are on the road it sounds like the Discovery will be my best option. It is the HSE version and auto so sounds like I will be turning into an old man!

Sounds like you don't even need a disco then- why not get a people carrier or something? Or if you really must have an off roader get an old td90 as well?

Elephant from the cliamtic change thread:

Ironically I'm already quite green and within 2 years will be greener than a tree-hugging lesbian tofu muncher. Ironic as I'm not green and couldn't give a shit about climate change, but peak oil… that's a different matter. I am and will change my behaviour for that.

I take it changing your behaviour does not extend to rejecting the monster truck as a means of transpot Elephant. Just how many litres of fuel do you consume per year? (in addition to the 10 000+ litres it cost to build it).

I work from home numbnuts. My main runaround is LPG'd. I'm greener than most wannabe eco-warriors and I'm not even pale green. If it wasn't for mountainbiking I'd be a virtual hippy.

Other manufacturers have taken their vehicles into the 21st Century you know. They have ride comfort and handling and proper seats and everything.

The other day I pulled up alongside a year or two old jap 4*4 and was amused to notice the rear drum brakes and leaf springs. Now theres progress…

To the OP, is your disco MPi or V8? And are you looking at a series 2 (eg TD5) disco?

Edukator,

It's the planet-killing-4×4-thing again. I've got a "monster 4×4" which I need to tow the caravan in which I live. Living in a small space means less resources to build it, less to heat it, less to clean it, repair it and replace it eventually. I do not fly, I rarely eat meat, I source food locally where possible, recycle as much as possible, ride to work, buy secondhand, I don't throw things away because they are last year's fashion or the wrong colour.

You can't judge someone's "green-ness" by their car choice alone.

What does "numbnuts" mean please? LPG is a fossil fuel and included in the peak oil headache.

What does "numbnuts" mean please? LPG is a fossil fuel and included in the peak oil headache.

Numbnuts…
LPG has it's own peak which is unrelated to oil and is nowhere in sight. Look it up if you don't believe me.

The other day I pulled up alongside a year or two old jap 4*4 and was amused to notice the rear drum brakes and leaf springs. Now theres progress…

However, the engine and drivetrain will get beyond the next 12 months – as opposed to other brands mentioned around these parts. Electrics too I'd guess.

Ah, the great peak oil debate… or headache. Why headache? Is that because neither side listens to each other? From an economics point of view, the proportion of the total endowment (however you wish to estimate it) that has been consumed is pretty irrelevant.

Elephant makes the is the link between scarcity and price, such that as crude supplies become increasingly expensive to lift, the retail price will rise. If he/she chooses to buy a car that is less full efficient, thereby increasing running costs then that it is matter of personal choice.

It would be fair to say that using petroleum to power vehicles (and generate electricity) is about the worst use for it, but peak oil is a poorly formed debate that is unlikely to change our behaviour; we will follow price signals.

we will follow price signals.

We do. LPG being a prime example.

There was a suggestion that running two vehicles instead of one versatile 4×4 was a solution. It won't be if your mileage is low. The extra cost of keeping 2 vehicles outweighs this.

I avoid this dilemma by have two 4x4s. I have a compelling argument for why that's green too 😀 (maybe later for that one).

Ah, I see numbnuts is an insult. Could you point out where I have betrayed this lack of intelligence.

If 60 years of proven reserves is nowhere in sight you are clearly short sighted. It's strikingly similar to oil but a little longer than oil which is not surprising given that the two often come out of the same holes. It is no different in that LPG is a fossil fuel resource that will run out at about the point the planet is greenhoused into a climate that will be most disagreeable for those that survive.

Edukator, you make some valid points but some unsubscribed claims. However this thread is to help a chap decide on which vehicle he should purchase…If you want to hijack the thread or talk about peak oil etc why not start your own thread? 🙄

That's why I asked Elephant how much fuel he uses Karinofnine. Clearly owning a 4×4 only costs the emmissions associated with making it, how much it is used is the other part of the equation. If the LPG option/conversion was worthwhile he probably uses a lot of fuel or the investment in a cheap but equally polluting (in terms of CO2) fuel would not have been worthwhile.

Keep the Disco for fun (and towing), and buy an MPV for space?

Otherwise get the latest Disco, 7 seats and auto in HSE.

An on topic post then jezjeti:

Do you need such a heavy, cumbersome and polluting vehicle? Is there no other vehicle that would meet your requirements that would have less environmental impact and make less of an I-am-an-eco-terrorist-roadhog statement? The money saved in initial outlay and running costs could be put towards improving other aspects of your life (and the quality of life of your nearest and dearest if you have any).

kenneththecurtain – Member
To the OP, is your disco MPi or V8? And are you looking at a series 2 (eg TD5) disco?

My Disco is a V8 with an LPG conversion. I have had a TD5 before but had problems with the ACE and clutch, my mate has one and has had oil in the wiring loom and also needed to change the clutch and gearbox. Hence I am looking at the series 3 as I hope the engine is better than the TD5.

Edukator – I don't need a

heavy, cumbersome and polluting vehicle

but I like them. Not sure I follow your

I-am-an-eco-terrorist-roadhog statement

unless you tar everyone with the same brush when making generalizing and sweeping statements!

Some people need a 4×4 in as they use the off-road abilities of the vehicle on a regular basis and using a normal vehicel would occasion them considerable inconvenience. Those that don't I class as fashion victims and place squarely in the eco-terrorist category. Sharing the road and often the pavement with these beasts I have no hesitation in staitng that a higher than normal proportion of their owners are roadhogs.

So shakey, you don't need it and are an eco-terrorist. Are you also a roadhog that bullies other road users and uses the off-road ability exculusively to park on pavemnets?

Edukator – I do a fair amount of towing and that is the reason I own one.
I don't do a great deal of off-roading but like being able to do when needed. I don't bully other road users although you are less likely to get into a situation when driving one and I don't park on pavements though why owning a 4×4 means you are more likely to is beyond me!

The other day I pulled up alongside a year or two old jap 4*4 and was amused to notice the rear drum brakes and leaf springs. Now theres progress…

that'll be because they work

I think you will find a great many other vehicles make better tow cars. The braking capacity of 4x4s is dire (compare your Disco with any saloon car of comparable habitability). The stability of 4x4s is often poor and there is more chance the caravan will flip a 4×4 particularly in windy conditions. A length of cable and a fence wire tensioning device will get you out of a waterlogged field better than a 4×4.

Towing is usaully only a very small part of total mileage, you may find keeping your current Disco for holiday use and buying a very small car in which to do most of your miles a cheaper, less polluting and more agreeable option. One advantage of a typical 4×4 is that it will last beyond the typical 8 year breaking period especially if mileage is reduced.

People with 4x4s park on pavements because they can. Mounting a high kerb with a normal car will result in tyre damage, body damage or a smashed sump. Have you not noticed the 4x4s on the pavement, especially near schools driven my mothers dropping off kids?

Defenders are excellent, but for comfort and motorway miles, the Discovery would be far better.

Jings guys, the guy wants some advice on his new wheels – he clearly doesn't care if you don't like 4*4s.

Have a scout about on landrovernet.com, you can get a good idea of what goes wrong with different models by having a poke about.

Also don't underestimate a Freelander; my wife has an oldstyle high-spec TD auto 5 door. It will tow her 'box and 2 horses out of most quagmires plus take 3 bikes and 3 people inside (or 1 inside and 3 outside plus 4 people). Or other combinations, and the luggage space isn't bad once you realise its tall inside.

So far done 50k and it does 30+mpg, irrelevent of how/where you drive.

Its a tough call, the Disco will be a much more comfortable daily drive but will be more difficult/complicated to repair. The Defender will go on forever, has more basic mechanicals and might hold its value better too. I had a Hilux for 4 or 5 years and whilst you get used to driving an "agricultural vehicle" its noticeably more relaxing driving a decent 4×4 jeep.

EDIT – I had a Freelander when they first came out. It had the Rover 1.8 petrol engine in it and it blew a head gasket. Be careful what engine you get in a Freelander, otherwise they are good cars.

As a Land Rover owner in the past ,I am now the owner of a Mitsubishi Shogun lwb 3.2did , ultra reliable and a great motor , if i had to choose between the Disco or the 110 it would be the Disco , the Defenders are very basic but awesome off road , If I'd of had the money I'd of gone for a Toyota Land Cruiser there the ultimate.

Yeah – Landcruiser would be my first choice, drove one all over Amazonia many years ago and kind of fell in love with them! I am also a big fan of the Nissan Patrol.

If you must go Landrover then a Disco is the best choice I would think (assuming the Freelander doesn't meet your requirements, which would surprise me). Currently I kick about in a Suzuki Grand Vitara which is actually pretty decent on the road, and surprisingly good off it (I often drive off road for work, hence the 4×4, though I am not needing it as much these days so keep thinking a van may be a better bet… and I am an eco-hippy-treehugging-warrior!).

Never seen the need for a 4×4 for towing though, I would have thought that many, many cars would be able to do the job as well for less money and with less stigma attached 😉

edukator what car do you drive?

LPG has it's own peak which is unrelated to oil and is nowhere in sight. Look it up if you don't believe me.

Realy are you sure?

Google GTL (gas to liqid), and CTL (coal to liquid), once oil's run out or at least uneconomic to exctract I'd be expecting gas and coal to shoot up in value at just the same rate, potentialy faster as it's easier to process some gases into petrol than it is with oil!

n.b.

70% of all series/defenders ever built are currently still on the road, no bad for something nearly 50 years old!

I linke Landrovers – have owned and driven several but i wouldnt get a 110 county unless you live ona farm in the middle of nowehere and really need the off road capability. They are good off road will last forever(ish) but they are not very comfortable and designed to do serious hard work. A friend of a friend who had moved out to the sticks – decided he needed one and went to the dealers and bought a brand new one with lots of toys, proud has anything that he would now "fit in". Anyway several weeks past and he returns to the dealer and says the door trim needs replacing because there is a consistenet leak above the front passenger door – dealer looks him the eye shrugs and said "sorry, they all do that, there's nothing we can do.!"

I'd go the disco!