Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 226 total)
  • Naughty Froome?
  • Premier Icon ferrals
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    Excessive levels of asthma drug – might be stripped of vuelta title

    It seems to me that this is probably/hopefully a non story and he has the correct Doctors evidence or TUE available. Not good for the genre real perception o f cycling or team sky though!

    Premier Icon mattsccm
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    Only really a problem in image if stirred up by the press who generally speaking have little concern for anything but making a quid. If they kept their mouths shut no one would be harmed. The public have no need to know about such a thing. As with most things. Shit stirring until 100% proved the be a concrete wrong doing.
    Most likely to be cock up from something legitimate but “oh no the world knows better” and its perfectly acceptable to cause a fuss before anything is proved.

    Premier Icon Onzadog
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    I always wanted to be a pro cyclist growing up but I couldn’t cut it at the sharp end because I didn’t have asthma.

    Premier Icon ransos
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    I’m sure we’d all be as generous if it was Contador.

    Premier Icon DavidB
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    It’s in the public interest to know why he doubled the dose during the Vuelta

    Premier Icon sl2000
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    mattsccm wrote:

    Only really a problem in image if stirred up by the press

    Gosh it’s hard fr me to tell sarcasm on the internet sometimes. But this one made me smile.

    Premier Icon legend
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    Onzadog – Member
    I always wanted to be a pro cyclist growing up but I couldn’t cut it at the sharp end because I didn’t have asthma

    🙂

    Premier Icon Markie
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    Surprised? No, not really.

    Disappointed? Yep.

    And yeah, maybe the test result is an outlier from permitted medical usage. But there’s no benefit of the doubt from me anymore.

    Premier Icon llama
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    On one hand, salbutamol is not exactly tasty steak/epo/transfusion. If it was I’d be going a lot quicker up hills.

    On the other hand, Unlike most, I like Froome as a rider. Now I am disappointed and the seeds of doubt are there. I’m not at the stage where I don’t believe what I’m seeing, but it’s on that road.

    Premier Icon dufusdip
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    It’s fake news from Lewis Hamilton to undermine Froome’s SPOTY bid…

    Premier Icon jambalaya
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    Would be intersting to know how accurate and reliable the test is ? If you drink more during a race does your result go down ? That’s why this is being challenged scientifically as many if these tests are less accurate than you might think.

    As Froome says he knows he will be tested every day he wears the leaders jersey

    Premier Icon ransos
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    As Froome says he knows he will be tested every day he wears the leaders jersey

    That’s what Armstrong used to say.

    Premier Icon mattsccm
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    And just why is it in the public interest?
    Why the assumption that everyone has the right to know everything, especially when currently there is nothing but gossip and click bait. When he is proved to be guilty it may have some minor importance but until then its just click bait at best, generated by nasty people.

    Premier Icon lister
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    And that’s why he ruined it for everyone…clean folk especially.

    It’s all about nagging doubts.

    Premier Icon jambalaya
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    Appreciated yes but Armstrong knew what he was taking prior to races during training would not fail the tests.

    I have a good mtb-ing friend who used to run a (narco) drugs testing programme – very intereting to understand what can be tested for and what dissapears from your system after given periods. Hence my comment.

    Premier Icon myopic
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    Jambalaya, and with it being a urine sample, the converse is also true – if you do not drink enough the concentration goes up. Urine concentrations of drugs don’t mean much beyond they are there. Think how much your own urine can vary from almost water to looking like stewed tea. The concentrations of anything in it vary massively unless they are corrected for some kind of markers that is consistently present, usually creatinine, – no evidence of that being quoted here that I have seen.

    Premier Icon mattjg
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    All the best riders have a toot on the blue puffer.

    Premier Icon nickwatson
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    Sky’s explaination, which is obviously one sided:

    This is a process that in normal circumstances would be confidential. However, in light of media interest, we believe it is important that the facts are set out clearly for all.

    Chris has had asthma since childhood and uses an inhaler to take a common medication, Salbutamol, to prevent and ease symptoms brought on by exercise. Salbutamol is permitted by WADA rules (without the need for a TUE) when inhaled up to a limit of 1,600 micrograms (mcg) over a period of 24 hours and no more than 800mcg over 12 hours.

    The UCI informed Chris that a urine test conducted on 7 September 2017, following Stage 18 of the Vuelta, revealed a concentration of Salbutamol which exceeds a threshold that requires him to provide information to confirm that he inhaled no more than the permissible dose. Analysis indicated the presence of Salbutamol at a concentration of 2,000 nanograms per millilitre (ng/ml), compared with the WADA threshold of 1,000ng/ml. None of the 20 other urine tests taken by Chris required any further explanation.

    During the final week of the Vuelta, Chris experienced acute asthma symptoms. On the advice of the Team Sky doctor, he used an increased dosage of Salbutamol (still within the permissible doses) in the run-up to the 7 September urine test. As race leader, Chris was tested after every stage through this period and he declared his use of the medication as part of the process.

    The notification of the test finding does not mean that any rule has been broken. The finding triggers requests from the UCI which are aimed at establishing what caused the elevated concentration of Salbutamol and to ensure that no more than the permissible doses of Salbutamol were inhaled.

    There is considerable evidence to show that there are significant and unpredictable variations in the way Salbutamol is metabolised and excreted. As a result, the use of permissible dosages of Salbutamol can sometimes result in elevated urinary concentrations, which require explanation. A wide range of factors can affect the concentrations, including the interaction of Salbutamol with food or other medications, dehydration and the timing of Salbutamol usage before the test.

    https://www.teamsky.com/article/ts-statement

    Premier Icon beej
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    People have been banned for less – from Daniel Friebe on Twitter:

    Sky say Froome’s salbutamol concentration was 2000ng/ml.

    Diego Ulissi got a nine-month ban for 1920ng/ml in 2014.

    Petacchi got a year for
    1320ng/ml in 2007.

    BUT Leonardo Piepoli got no ban for levels reportedly similar to Petacchi’s in 2007

    Premier Icon snownrock
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    Surprised? No, not really.

    Disappointed? Yep.

    +1

    Premier Icon eddiebaby
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    The public have no need to know about such a thing.

    😯 Really?

    Premier Icon slowoldman
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    It’s in the public interest to know why he doubled the dose during the Vuelta

    “The public” probably couldn’t give a toss. It’s only blokes on bikes.

    Premier Icon pistonbroke
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    Apropos of nothing, 2 days after this test Chris Froome had his end of stage medical test done in our camper van. Not sure the dehydration reason holds water (sic) as the riders have unlimited water available to drink prior to the test, essentially to make them need a wee. I really hope nothing comes of this,I was in the vacinity of him for quite a while at the time and he really seemed to have a bad cough following the wet weather during the last week of the Vuelta.

    Premier Icon bikebouy
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    beej – Member
    People have been banned for less – from Daniel Friebe on Twitter:

    Sky say Froome’s salbutamol concentration was 2000ng/ml.

    Diego Ulissi got a nine-month ban for 1920ng/ml in 2014.

    Petacchi got a year for
    1320ng/ml in 2007.

    BUT Leonardo Piepoli got no ban for levels reportedly similar to Petacchi’s in 2007

    Yeah, this.

    Sorry, but there has to be consistency on testing and application of the rules.

    I understand Petacchi, he always played around the rules.. even he acknowledges this.. but still you take his single case alone in this instance.

    Public interest?
    I’ve always been a “prove it, then apply the law, then release statement to media” boring old fart type in this regard.. but I’m old and we don’t live in my world anymore.. trial by media is the norm from now on..

    Premier Icon kerley
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    “The public” probably couldn’t give a toss. It’s only blokes on bikes.

    Exactly, the public probably don’t even know who Chris Froome is.

    Premier Icon jekkyl
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    Does increased Salbutamol in the blood stream make you cycle faster?

    Premier Icon Edukator
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    “I don’t think anyone should be surprised when a professional sports team pushes the rules right to the very limit,” Cookson said.

    So take tens of products just below the limit (we know this from the Festina Lille case) get a huge gain from the cumulative effects and still claim not to be doping. Then make a miscalculation and go over on one of the parrameters and stil claim not to be doping. Short of banning sponsorship and payment of athletes I don’t see a solution.

    Premier Icon lunge
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    Surprised? No, not really.

    Disappointed? Yep.

    And yeah, maybe the test result is an outlier from permitted medical usage. But there’s no benefit of the doubt from me anymore
    This is exactly my thoughts. I’ll be gutted if he’s banned/found guilty but would I be surprised? Sadly, no I wouldn’t be.

    Premier Icon grumpysculler
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    Key thing about salbutamol (and similar inhalers) is that exceeding the urine threshold isn’t automatically an adverse finding, as Sky have said. Some drugs are simply banned at certain concentrations, not these.

    The limit is on the inhaled dose, the urine limit is for detection and is on the basis of “explain it or else we will treat it as being an adverse finding”. That explanation needs to be “through a controlled pharmacokinetic study” say WADA, so not sure quite how Sky are planning to do it.

    Premier Icon MSP
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    On one hand, salbutamol is not exactly tasty steak/epo/transfusion. If it was I’d be going a lot quicker up hills.

    It is in the same category of PEDs as clenbuterol (which Contador was caught with), and used for the same reason, weight control. It would only work though if taken to excess (over the prescribed medical dosage) over a period of time. The case is similar to Contador as both did not show usage to an effective dosage over a period of time.

    Premier Icon grumpysculler
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    It would only work though if taken to excess (over the prescribed medical dosage) over a period of time.

    Thing is, that isn’t the bar that WADA set. Probably because they are looking at catching people who are tested intermittently so they have to consider one test as being indicative. When Froome was OK the day before and after (being tested daily) it doesn’t really suggest he was taking the mick or getting an illegal performance boost, on the other hand the concentration they found is really really high.

    Premier Icon ghostlymachine
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    Michael wrote:

    Does increased Salbutamol in the blood stream make you cycle faster?

    No.
    It gives you the shakes. Quite bad too. I can’t work my gears or drink from a bottle properly if i have more than 3 (successful) drags on it.
    It’s also a bugger to get the right dose when trying to synchronize your breathing and squeezing the puffer. Usually end up with a load of it smeared all over my tongue.

    Just googled the official side effects list:-
    nervousness, headache, tremor, dry mouth, chest pain or heavy feeling, rapid or uneven heart rate, pain spreading to the arm or shoulder, nausea, sweating, dizziness, seizure (convulsions), feeling light-headed or fainting. 😕

    Premier Icon atlaz
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    From here:

    The study involved 48 well-trained male cyclists (VO2max > 60 ml/kg/min); before the study started, they were all screened for exercise-induced asthma, and 14 of them tested positive (all but one had been previously diagnosed). They all did two 10-km cycling time trials, which take about 15 minutes — a combination of intensity and duration that’s thought to offer the toughest challenge to an athlete’s respiratory system. An hour before each time trial, they inhaled either salbumatol or a placebo; neither they nor the researchers knew which one they’d been given on which occasion.

    The results? Lung function did improve in both the asthma and non-asthma group — but that didn’t translate into any improvement in time-trial performance. The surprise here is that the increase in lung function didn’t translate to better performance even for the group with exercise-induced asthma. That doesn’t mean salbutamol doesn’t work — it’s highly effective as relieving the acute symptoms of an asthma attack.

    There’s a scientific paper to read but I can’t be arsed paying for it. The conclusion though:

    Conclusions: The inhalation of salbutamol induced a significant increase in resting lung function in EVH+ and EVH? athletes but this improvement in lung function did not translate to improved exercise performance. Salbutamol had no discernible effect on key ventilatory and exercise parameters regardless of EVH challenge outcome.

    So in theory there’s no performance gain to be had, just mitigation of his symptoms. That said, there IS a limit (as there is with caffeine) which has been breached.

    Premier Icon DavidB
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    mattsccm – Member
    And just why is it in the public interest?
    Why the assumption that everyone has the right to know everything, especially when currently there is nothing but gossip and click bait. When he is proved to be guilty it may have some minor importance but until then its just click bait at best, generated by nasty people.

    You are Buzz Bissinger and I claim my £5

    Premier Icon snownrock
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    That said, there IS a limit (as there is with caffeine) which has been breached.

    That’s it, unfortunately rules are rules.

    Premier Icon martinhutch
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    It gives you the shakes. Quite bad too. I can’t work my gears or drink from a bottle properly if i have more than 3 (successful) drags on it.

    I must be a hardened doper – I have no real problems with it, bit of tremor, but nothing like you’ve described.

    I imagine makes you cycle faster if you have the right kind of airway inflammation, I suppose. In other words, if you have some form of constricted airways due to asthma.

    I suppose the principle with Froome should be that if he is having a major asthma exacerbation in competition, his medical team should be managing it better out of competition with long-acting preventer drugs so he doesn’t need to take a larger dose on the day.

    Premier Icon MSP
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    Again, it is used for weight control, you cycle faster by being lighter.

    Premier Icon BadlyWiredDog
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    Does increased Salbutamol in the blood stream make you cycle faster?

    Doesn’t matter if he’s exceeded the permitted dose – them’s the rules – the onus is on Froome and Sky to show that the levels in his urine are an anomaly due to other factors like dehydration, impaired kidney function, the effects of another medicine etc. He’s twice the permitted urine concentration limit, which seems like a lot.

    But anyway, studies seem to suggest that it doesn’t make you cycle faster – the one referred to here for example.

    But they’re still the rules.

    Premier Icon BadlyWiredDog
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    I suppose the principle with Froome should be that if he is having a major asthma exacerbation in competition, his medical team should be managing it better out of competition with long-acting preventer drugs so he doesn’t need to take a larger dose on the day.

    What, like Wiggins and his TUE you mean? 😉

    Premier Icon muggomagic
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    MSP – Member
    Again, it is used for weight control, you cycle faster by being lighter.

    Well then I dread to think how much I’d weigh without salbutamol!

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 226 total)

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