http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-37099406

As an outdoor centre our staff used bothies when on staff training, and occasionally I have had a group stay (small groups – maybe 3-5 kids and a staff member or two, in winter, quiet bothies, maybe 5 times in 20 years).
We have had one incident in 20 years that was not as planned – a DofE group without permission used the bothy to cook in bad weather, causing a right mess. Supervisor arrived an hour or so after to find (rightly) irate other user a few minutes ahead who arrived to find said mess and group in bothy. For this, the group were made to all but polish the brass and clean up bothy and surronds, and I as chief instructor spoke to landowner that day to apologise.
I find it deeply frustrating that commercial groups are behaving in a way that is clearly inappropriate or not with enough regard for landowners and other users….

Name and shame I say.

ok . A guided group of 20 or so people at ruigh aitchchan in glen Feshie last november 1st.

All with matching BOB ibex trailers With 3 or 4 who were clearly guides calling the shots.

Wasnt ammused especially when i got in to “trouble” in the morning for arriving late(9:45pm) and being “too noisy” unpacking ….despite being heading towards hypothermia after falling in the feshie in sub zero air temp.

name and shame the organisations and then bill them at a punitive rate – very punitive rates
IMHO D of E groups and the like – in small numbers – are fine for Bothy use

Never set foot in a bothy in my life but a ten second google throws up a number of sites offering guided bothy trips including pictures and details of the locations of the bothies.

Surely someone at the MBA knows how to use google and can advise the commercial guides of the rules?

Bothy management group need to respond to this threat. Commercial organisations should be told to pay towards the up keep of the Bothy or bugger off IMHO 😀

Not sure how they can control it without a series of planned visits to the bothies to confirm who is using them.

Catch a few out and hit them with fines/payments and see if it then stops.

I agree and there is a sort of precedent. The likes of Go-Where and Wilderness Scotland already contribute to trail maintenance across the Highlands, in recognition of the fact that they make commercial use of community resources- the trails themselves. Taking the profitable business of guiding groups into bothies is well beyond acceptable, if no contribution is being made.
I’d name and shame.

Never set foot in a bothy in my life

I have once – literally stepped in and stepped back out again. I’m mildly phobic about old sheds and mildly phobic about attics and I’m quite a lot more phobic about situations that invite camaraderie (like a group ride).

Stepping into an empty bothy those three mild phobias combined into one massive multi phobia like one of those transformers made out of transformers. Gave me the absolute screaming abdabs.

The MBA needs to recruit a French properties manager; a retired pisteur would do a great job of making life difficult for commercial groups.

Does seem like it could be sorted relatively easily.

Eh… Hate to play Devil’s Advocate here but surely it is ultimately up to the landowner upon whose land the bothy exists whether it is appropriate for commercial groups to use it?

I don’t like it but I guess these groups might be getting permission first or maybe even paying the landowners?

Bothies, like anything else in life that depends on people being fundamentally not-assholes, will eventually suffer for being both free qnd awesome…

maccruiskeen – Member
Gave me the absolute screaming abdabs.

I hadn’t thought much about it until I read on here or another forum about someone’s fear of entering a bothy and finding a body hanging.
That thought has unfortunately stuck with me. 😆

Did you read the article Ian?

In a statement, the MBA said: “There have been occasions when an owner has threatened to close a bothy if we fail to act to prevent further use in this way.

that as may be ian but it doesnt excuse acting like an asshat to a late(ish) comer – permission or no permission ….. if you want an un disturbed nights sleep head to hilton colyumbridge.

The nature of using bothys and the terrain you cover to get to them means that people may arrive late and they have just as much right to use them as the people already inside – assuming its not full…..

im not suggesting we went in screaming and shouting how ever there is a certain requirement to unpack your sleeping equipment……

The rise of the internet and social media has sadly put bothy provision at risk. I can remember a time when bothy knowledge was really only known about from word of mouth. Now with locations and directions at your fingertips they have been open to abuse. I remember an article in this singletrack magazine about a bothy trip and I thought at the time even that was irresponsible advertising. The MBA do a great job maintaining what they have, but so many more have been lost to vandals and irresponsible users and anyone who played their part in publisicing the whereabouts of these places, and the free to use nature of them has a part of the blame IMO.

Did you read the article Ian?

Yes! After I posted… 😳

Don’t know what the MBA thought would happen after the BBC 2 bothy spectacular, the basics of good bothy use are obviously beyond a significant number of people, so advertising bothies to all and sundry was never going to end well 😕

The last two times I’ve been at Mark Cottage to army have been in residence using it for a training exercise.

An overnight stay. 6 guys already there. Away noisily at 5am for an ambush followed by rifle fire.

2nd time I was just in for a day walk. On arrival there was a sentry in a tent nearby. A generator was running to power among other things the laptop they were using to watch videos.

Last time I was there a few weeks ago they had also left some natural shelters built in the woods further along the Loch. Poor buggers must have been eaten alive.

Ok, walking into Corrour during the huge snow winter of 2010/11. Had walked in using the moonlight on a beautiful Wed evening week between Xmas and new year;colder than a witch’s tit mind. Arrived at 9pm to be met by two lads from St Andrews Uni smoking cigars outside who apologised and told us the howf was full. The lad I was with does not share my sunny disposition and natural tact and this was sadly reflected in his reaction,on issuing this stern rebuttal to their opening remark we were then informed that they had booked the bothy in advance for that night. That was it; there must have been ten of them in the bothy and after we had kicked their packs out of the way we had plenty space. We made free and easy with their coal and unfortunately my mate snores like a misfiring motorbike…which is only matched by the truly horrific sounds that come out of his other end.I had plugs in and lay trying not to laugh as he shook the bothy down. Apparently they were part of two groups from the Uni and the other mob was crowding out the Tarf Hotel that night. Tossers. I have put a DoE group of six into Altdourie(SP) overnight when one broke an ankle and the weather was horrific.

Correct.

Don’t know what the MBA thought would happen after the BBC 2 bothy spectacular, the basics of good bothy use are obviously beyond a significant number of people, so advertising bothies to all and sundry was never going to end well

Except the article is talking about commercial use, which I assume are organised by people who already knew about bothies. It seems to me that its not random members of the public failing to understand bothies which are causing concern but experienced and organised groups who should know better.

Exactly poly. In addition, they are earning a living from such activities, so should (of all people) be aware of thier impact on the natural, man made, economic and social environment of the area they are in.

As a walking outdoors club, we used to use bothies on a semi-regular basis, but IIRC we tried to take along tents in case of prior occupants, guidelines state – or used to – that large parties are frowned upon, and trail_rat you should have had no trouble entering a bothy to seek shelter. Shame on them 🙁

To labour on that point kcal . We were both carrying bivvy gear as well if the bothy was busy but it was beyond that. My clothes were that wet and it was that cold I had to use the bothy ash shovel to remove the frozen remains from the floor- inside the bothy.

As an outdoor centre our staff used bothies when on staff training, and occasionally I have had a group stay (small groups – maybe 3-5 kids and a staff member or two, in winter, quiet bothies, maybe 5 times in 20 years).

*coughs* http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/a-little-bothy-trip-with-some-new-bothy-rats

In the old days, the locations of bothies was a closely guarded secret. Whatever happened to that?

It used to be amazing stumbling across some of these places, sounds like it’s no longer the same at all 🙁

@geoffj – that’s my kids and friends, not work, We occupied one room of a three room bothy. It was a bothy rarely visited and quiet. We left a pile of firewood and lugged out three bags of rubbish. We cleaned out the bothy and laid a fire ready for next occupants.

Next. 😉

Oldnpastit; the internet happened, and the explosion of bagging as a sport. There have always been bothies trashed by users or burnt out by landowners because of the (sometimes perceived) grief they bring. The original Bob Scotts being an example, even the new one had folk dossing in it for months a few years back. Problem is that they have always been run by a “code” which makes it easy for chancers to take the pee.

Anyone using the great outdoors for commercial purposes needs to treat it with respect and put something back most likely by giving time or money to upkeep. Many do of course but those that don’t need to be held to account.

Taking groups naturally puts more pressure on an area and if you’re making your living from something that is part of the common weal then there’s a moral obligation to help maintain it.

army have been in residence using it for a training exercise.

The military are serial offenders in messing up the outdoors. There’s no excuse.

On the topic of arriving at a bothy that’s already occupied, the Finnish etiquette is interesting. The last to arrive has priority, on the basis that if somebody has to go out and look for another shelter, it should be the one who has already rested and fed, and not the one who’s cold tired and hungry.

Seems fair enough really, surely its about who has the greater need?

There have always been bothies trashed by users or burnt out by landowners because of the (sometimes perceived) grief they bring.

Very true. My dad was into the climbing and weekending scene in the late 40s and 50s. According to him one shelter, possibly Ba Cottage, in the Black Mount, was demolished or burnt by the estate after instances of it being used as a base for deer poaching. To the extent the deer were being shot from the windows of the bothy.

Blackburn of Pattack being another bothy destroyed by fire.

The last time I used a bothy I had intended to camp out on the hill that night but the weather turned a tad biblical and when the wind lifted the tent up off the ground I decided to retreat down to a bothy I knew of in the valley. The weather worsened as I approached the bothy, it was pitch black, there was a howling wind and it was starting to rain. I could see a light on and hoped the place wasn’t rammed. It was. Packed full of young lads all sitting round the stove drinking. I wasn’t all that hopeful of a warm welcome or finding any space. But I was proved very wrong. They were amazed that anyone had been out on the hill and even more amazed by the effort I’d put in during the day (I was running and wild camping). They made room by the fire, I was given a cup of tea and found a space for me to sleep. We all sat chatting and sharing some whisky for a while. It was a good night in the end!

My last couple of bothy experiences have been good ones; encountering a group of unicorns at Ryvoan whilst on a Cairgorm loop (eight ladies doing a week long bikepacking trip themselves) and sharing drinks with a swiss guy, dutch chap and bunch of Londoners at the lookout bothy in Skye. Sadly, there’s also been a number of instances of finding rubbish, people leaving food (despite the large signs saying don’t leave food) and shitting near the door. The negative points I can’t direct at groups, just idiots.

I’ve never bumped into a group at a bothy, but given space can sometimes be at a premium I’d maybe be a tad grumpy if someone had brought a load of people to one, it just seems like taking the mick somehow. The main thing in this instance I think is just for them to give something back, in fact, I’d encourage everyone to donate to the MBA who uses bothies, they’re a facility we’re really lucky to have.