Well, I've gone and joined the Mac brigade. After months of debate,research and worrying over the cost, I finally walked out of an Apple temple with a shiny new 17" Macbook Pro. Now just got to – a. set it up and b. figure out how to get some work done on it.
Gulp.

Bloody hell 17" MBP you must be skint now. All depends what you want to use it for some things mac do best some things PC.

They are nice if a tad overpriced!

The motherboard is failing on my PC & I'm tempted by a Mac Mini.

mac mini are super sturdy, hardly ever appear on the refurbished mac thingy.

My 17" MacBook is now nearly seven years old and looks like new. I don't know anyone with a PC older than mebbe three years. I've lost track of the number that have been tossed out at work, while a Mac I started using in '95 at a different company was only retired several months ago.

welcome to the club. You'll not regret the extra cash or that sense of smug glee.
Mike
Mac user 15 years.

I don't know anyone with a PC older than mebbe three years.

I have two PC's that are older than that and two laptops that are about 9 years old. Hang on, lets have a quick look at one of them.

[root@chopper root]# uptime
07:51:07 up 731 days, 17:07, 4 users, load average: 0.06, 0.05, 0.01
[root@chopper root]#

Lawks!

I don't know anyone with a PC older than mebbe three years

Here we go. 🙄

aviemoron

I took the leap a couple of years ago and bought the same as you. A couple of great sources of info about how to do stuff are the "Apple Tips" podcasts on iTunes. Each one is about 60 seconds long and follow the format of "ever wondered how do xxx? Well here's how."

The other great resource is the Macworld Mac Help and Tips forum here.

Congratulations, don't think you'll regret it They are pretty helpful/knowledgeable over at these forums too – http://forums.macrumors.com/

Think it's a fair point about longevity – Apples hold their resale value much better than PCs for this reason. See how much you get for a 3-4 year old PC laptop, next to nothing.

Anyway, why did some people open this thread just to defend their beloved PCs?

Been running my mac mini for 4 years now and it hasn't played up once.
Excellent bit of kit.

how much you get for a 3-4 year old PC laptop

That might be becasue they are cheaper to start with and there far more of them about (supply and demand) – not just down to longevity – if you reinstall the OS on a 5 year old PC it will be as good as new.

Just trying to re-balance the stream of lies and misinformation that pour from MAC owners mouths Grumm. I suppose it's only natural though, they're all in marketing and graphic design, they're inherently untrustworthy.

Just trying to re-balance the stream of lies and misinformation that pour from MAC owners mouths Grumm. I suppose it's only natural though, they're all in marketing and graphic design, they're inherently untrustworthy.

What a bitter little person you are. A guy is happy with his new computer, and all you have to contribute is nastiness.

Our household is contemplating buying one of these:

Yes I know you could by a very good bike / not bad second hand car for the same price.

The formula which relates to the optimum amount of bikes that you should own is the same for Apple products, i.e. Amount = x + 1, where x equals the amount you already have.

I'm using one right now. well, last yrs model with the old wireless mouse.

If there was a disadvantage of using a mac, it's:
1. the initial outlay
2. that all the GPS software is only PC compliant which means you have to run boot camp & a copy of M$ on the mac to use it.

on the positive side: everything else
I particularly enjoy the fact that it's almost totally silent. Even the ps3 fan/disk can be heard when the PC is off.

I just use online sites like bikehike etc for GPS – is there a big advantage using MM over sites like that? Also, Ascent is pretty good for the GPS tracking/training side of things.

I took the leap about 5 years ago, i have a Powerbook G4, and while it has started to fail recently (some **** dropped it!!) its still functional. The faults i have are the Battery has died, but it can be replaced, and the usb's on the left side are somewhat troublesome but thats only a recent fault.

I have replaced it with a PC due to the fact i just couldn't justify paying for another mac, but the powerbook still lives as my websurfing machine. Over the years it has done everything i used to do on PC's and it one of those things that just works, the software works and the added hardware i have brought all works quickly and flawlessly, especially the software iphoto, garageband, imovie etc.. are great pieces of software.

On the negative, so this shows im not totally mac biased, non of my sony hardware works on my mac, i had a sony vaio mp3 player, this refuses point blank to work with my mac, was really annoyed with it, until i got my hands on an iphone!

I bought a white macbook a year ago to port some applications I'd written across, but despite laughing at mac users for years I now find that I'm using the thing most of the time- hellishly frustrated with the deficiencies on windows laptop trackpads especially, compared to macs.

enjoy – i have the 15" mbp – i get 6 or 7 hours on a charge – i love it
the screens on these new ones (led backlit) are super nice!

hellishly frustrated with the deficiencies windows laptop trackpads especially, compared to macs.

Microsoft don't make laptops. If you don't like the trackpad of a laptop, then pick another make. People seem to get confused by the hardware and the OS.

I do love it when people shorten Microsoft to M$. Everything I've ever bought of Apple has been 30% more expensive than it really should be… Desirable though.

that's a bit picky jon1973 – people get used to all the scrolling/rotating capabilities on the macbook trackpads.
and then find that windows on whatever pc laptop can't do it. if it's a limitation of the os then 'windows laptop' is a fair description surely.

if you really missed windows you can run it under boot camp anyway…

What a bitter little person you are. A guy is happy with his new computer, and all you have to contribute is nastiness.

On the contrary, I'm very happy for him. It's people who immediately start demonising other *less superior* devices who need to address their issues.

I do love it when people shorten Microsoft to M$. Everything I've ever bought of Apple has been 30% more expensive than it really should be… Desirable though.

Is Apple software really 30% more expensive than it should be? You can get Snow Leopard for £25 and Final Cut Express is a bargain at £129. You can't really compare Apple with Microsoft in terms of hardware because M$ don't make much.

[root@chopper root]# uptime
07:51:07 up 731 days, 17:07, 4 users, load average: 0.06, 0.05, 0.01
[root@chopper root]#

wtf!

The very fact that you can do that and understand it clearly shows your a GEEK and your opinion on the reliability of PC's does not reflect the reality everyone else experiences 😆

I've seen a couple of forum items on the top-end iMac recently that were interesting. MacUser did a performance test comparing the i5 Quadcore with a desktop Pro tower, and the iMac out performed the tower, and an industry analyst in the states looked at the iMac in comparison to a top end Dell 27" led monitor. The monitor was $1600, and had a lower spec led panel in it, and the analyst said basically you're buying a fancy monitor and getting a top spec computer free.

Is Apple software really 30% more expensive than it should be? You can get Snow Leopard for £25 and Final Cut Express is a bargain at £129. You can't really compare Apple with Microsoft in terms of hardware because M$ don't make much.

We probably shouldn't get into this debate (again) on STW. But you can't seperate the cost of Apple software and hardware because you need one to run the other. The same isn't true of Microsoft. There are shades of grey in this argument but generally it holds true.

Apple hardware is lovely, I really like it and I have some. But I don't think you can call Microsoft poor value in comparison to Apple.

people get used to all the scrolling/rotating capabilities on the macbook trackpads and then find that windows on whatever pc laptop can't do it

I don't think thats true though, I've seen plenty of newer 'Windows' laptops around that can do all sorts of clever things with the trackpad – including iPhone style zoom etc. It's about the hardware – the manufatures just write thre drivers to support it on windows.

Welcome aboard shipmate

As the fellow owner of a 17" Macbook Pro (always important to brag about how many inches you've got) may I map out for you the remainder of your day for you.

1. Clothes shopping – I don't know what you're wearing at the moment, but its clearly not up to scratch. Pop down Selfridges and purchase yourself a black cashmere roll-neck jumper. You'll be able to pick a half-decent one up for about £200

2. Do you wear glasses? If not, poke yourself in the eye until you need some. Then go and get some nice frameless designer-label ones. Another £500 bet hey… you're used to forking out top dollar for superior goods now, so why stop

3. Pop into a bar that's constructed entirely out of blonde wood, glass and brushed aluminium, preferably with a Norwegian menu

4. Pull out your new tool (from the ludicrously expensive leather laptop bag you'va also just shelled out for), along with your copy of the Guardian and Creatiev Review, and order a skinny latte

5. Set up your own design agency, called Spirit, or **** or something and build a website

6. Look aloofly over your titanium screen at the shockingly badly dressed assembled peasantry before you

Welcome to my world 🙂

We probably shouldn't get into this debate (again) on STW. But you can't seperate the cost of Apple software and hardware because you need one to run the other. The same isn't true of Microsoft. There are shades of grey in this argument but generally it holds true.

Apple hardware is lovely, I really like it and I have some. But I don't think you can call Microsoft poor value in comparison to Apple.

I agree it is a dull debate. I'd also not call Microsoft poor value, mainly because i've never bought any of their stuff. I think the M$ is probably related to the size of the company and their market share.

I suppose this isn't the time to tell you that apple are having a big one day only sale on friday…

I suppose this isn't the time to tell you that apple are having a big one day only sale on friday..

Tell me more.

Just found the comparison test, here's the important bit:

Start by looking at the test results in our review. The Core i7 iMac wins eight of the categories; both Mac Pros combined only win seven—and of those, three are processor-intensive tests where the eight-core Mac Pro holds a four-core advantage over the iMac. So on performance alone, the i7 iMac is a compelling purchase.

But now, consider cost. I went to the online Apple Store, and built two machines: a Core i7 iMac, and a quad-core Mac Pro. Both were fitted with 8GB of RAM and 2TB of disk space. To make the comparison as equal as possible, I upgraded the video card in the Mac Pro, and bumped the processor speed in hopes of catching the Core i7 iMac. I also included a monitor, which is where things get a bit tricky: nobody sells a 2560-by-1440 monitor that I can find.

Apple’s own 24-inch monitor is 1920-by-1200, and the 30-inch version is 2560-by-1600 (and really expensive). Because it seemed unfair to go with a screen that provides fewer pixels than the iMac, I settled on an HP 30-inch LCD, which has 2560-by-1600 resolution. That’s about 11 percent more pixels, but it was as close as I could get to the iMac’s resolution.

So how do things look, once everything’s configured? Not very good for the Mac Pro:

Core i7 iMac vs. quad-core Mac Pro

Core i7 iMac Quad-core Mac Pro
Basic cost $1999 $2499
CPU upgrade $200 $500
RAM upgrade $200 $250
Hard drive upgrade $250 $400
Video card upgrade — $200
LCD monitor — $1200
Total $2649 $5049
CPU upgrade: 2.8GHz Core i7 in iMac; 2.93GHz Xeon in Mac Pro. RAM upgrade: 4x2GB chips in both machines. Hard drive upgrade: One 2TB drive in iMac; two 1TB drives in Mac Pro. Video card upgrade: ATI Radeon 4870 in Mac Pro. LCD Monitor: HP 2560-by-1600 30-inch LCD for Mac Pro.

That’s a price difference of $2400, or nearly enough money to buy a second identically-configured Core i7 iMac. Even if you take the monitor out of the comparison, buying a bare Mac Pro will set you back $1200 more than the cost of the Core i7 iMac.

To me, this makes two things quite obvious. First, the only people who will be purchasing Mac Pros in the near future are those who truly need their storage, expandability, and RAM capacity—for anyone else, even those who typically dread buying a machine with a built-in monitor, the top-of-the-line iMac looks like an easy winner.
Sure, they are talking about top-end machines, but it shows what performance you get now from what started as a basic home machine. Putting costs in perspective, my work Mac in '95-6 had a 21" CRT monitor, that cost £2000 on its own! That Mac was a dual processor 450Mhz with 1Gb RAM and IIRC a 5Gb HD. I think that spec was around £2000 as well, bearing in mind the RAM was around £1/ meg back then. Now you can get 8Gb flash cards for a tenner.

friday sale (usa prices) leaked

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/11/23/apples-black-friday-brochure-leaked-one-more-time/

I'll be keeping a close eye on the Apple website on Friday.

I've just got an email from Apple informing me of the TGI Friday deals

Beamers, grumm thanks for the links. Binners, I chuckled at this, I live in Aviemore – no-one to impress up here with your scenario, but I will get a nice new bag for it (Highland spec?) I spent hours settin it up last night and it was soooooo easy. Camera done, external hard drive done, e-mail, calendars, contacts, documents, piccies easy peasy. But what I don't like is it's so boring; my old windows laptop had a nice blue spinning icon that gave me loads of time to go and make a pot of tea and there were loads of friendly wee pops that told me I needed this that and the other update or anti virus download. This thing just sits there silently (and it is silent) doing what I want with no backchat to keep me company. Oh well, I'm sure something will go wrong soon, my windows ones always did.

I wrote a blog post about essential Mac software last year. Might be of some use.

Essential Mac Software