I have my Level 2 MTB Leader assessment coming up and I’m trying to revise route planning. I’m sure that there was a formula (similar to Naidmith’s Rule) for km/h on the flat, ascending and descending. Does anyone know it?

cheers,

Matt

formula?

You’re the leader. Make an educated estimate based on the group, route and conditions.
It doesn’t need to be exact.

Slower than you’d expect 😂 and the curve gets worse the more riders in the group.

You need to make the assessment based on the group, the weather, the potential route. You should always plan on doing a reccy ride first yourself too. No hard and fast formula. iainc MBLA L2 😀

Hi Beamishblue….

I’m level 2  and also have summer ml.  As a good starting point….. If i was out on my bike offroad on my own on level 2 type ground i would average 10km per hr.

If i was leading a walking group on similar ground i would average 4 to 5 km per hr and would need to take account of Naismiths.

I therefore estimate leading a group ride at about 7 or 8 kms per hour.

Sessioning a particular section of a ride or dealing with mechanicals/food stops etc will also need to be accounted for.

Good luck. Happy riding.

Ohhhh…… and Geex……. Just do one….. U clearly havent a Scooby Doo!

Cheers mate! It’s good to hear from some Level 2 folks. I’m a Summer ML as well so used to working with Naismith’s etc. I’m sure I was told a formula during the Level 2 training but I can’t see it in my notes. I think it was somewhere along the lines of – 10km/hr flat, 5km/hr uphill, 20km/hr downhill. I’ll work with that and see how it goes. Thanks for all your help folks.

Old rule of thumb for groups with novices was regardless of the distance add 1hr for each extra person 😉

Your group will however know which end of the bike to get onto so that will help!

You should always plan on doing a reccy ride first yourself too

Nonsense.

Back to the OP. We got told 8kmh last weekend.

Cheers. Was that on a level 2 course?

An educated estimate every time.  Too many variables for any kind of formula.  You have to be flexible and well prepared and prepared to change your plans.

thegeneralist – that was what the course tutor told our group on our MBLA Level 2 course. You may of course know better.

 that was what the course tutor told our group on our MBLA Level 2 course

I would probably go with if it’s going to be slower/harder are you sure it’s a route.for a group you don’t know.

yes, and without having ridden it before, you wouldn’t  know how slow/hard it might be. Things can look quite different on a map than on the ground.

For the assessment you’re going to be leading a section from a pre-marked map, so the length of that particular ride isn’t really determined by you anyway.

On the day it is more about how you deal with the group, navigation, knowing where you are when put on the spot etc. They’ll also throw in a few things to deal with like mechanicals, what you would do with an injury at this point etc.

I was familiar with most of the route we got – I’d say it took about twice the time of doing it solo. Time really depends on the individual group and terrain which they pretty much said on the course (I’m assuming all the BC assessments should be the same – this was Cyclewise in the Lakes).

that was what the course tutor told our group on our MBLA Level 2 course. You may of course know better.

Me, hell no.  I’m just going by what the bloke said last weekend.  And apparently he wrote the MBLA Level 2 course…..

TBH, I tend to agree with you, but he reckoned one of the beauties of the new course compared to the old was that it allows/encourages you to go on new routes that you haven’t done.  Whereas the old one mandated that you have to have ridden the trail before; which makes things a bit of a nightmare if you have a mechanical/weather issue/ exhaustion and can’t take a short cut if you haven’t coped it out beforehand.

“U clearly havent a Scooby Doo!”

Other than holding the L2 qualification and having worked leading mtb groups every week for a few years. No not a scooby.

“I therefore estimate leading a group ride at about 7 or 8 kms per hour”.

What size of group?
What age?
ability?
fitness?
Skill level?
How much experience do they have?
What time of year?
weather conditions?
What sort of terrain?
How far is the ride?
How much ascent?

Good luck with estimating every ride will be at 7-8mph avg.

OP. If you’re stressing about the ride assesment simply look at the area it’s to be held in for a rough idea of the terrain/hilliness. You’ll probably be in a group with 4 other MBL trainees max and one instructor/assessor. The riders in your group “should” be of reasonable fitness level and able to ride to a half decent level. Once you have your route adjust your estimate accordingly. It’s not the end of the world if your estimate’s a little out. so long as you sort out your late back procedure.

There’s intentinally not supposed to be any opportunity to do a recce for the newer UKMBLA assessment ride

which makes things a bit of a nightmare if you have a mechanical/weather issue/ exhaustion and can’t take a short cut if you haven’s coped it out beforehand.

Is the planning point.not that you have these ready beforehand?

It’s probaly a good change as guiding what you know doesn’t really teat your skills much of the.time.

I have MBL and even when I did mine both instructors stressed that you should be able to lead a group without having done the ride before.  It isn’t essential or indeed possible to pre ride a route.  Just plan accordingly and prepare as thoroughly as you can.

Our club seems to average our at about 8kmh on peak district rides. A bit faster or slower if is a bigger than usual group on a bit less climbing

Level2 yeah 8kph but open to change. Set Garmin to total speed/time for ride not moving time.

Done loads of group rides. Leading or just following. Had it as low as 4 to 5kph with a big group on hillier than average terrain with some very low level of ability riders at the back, and a couple of mechanicals thrown in. Had as fast as 14kph average with a small, more skilled group on very mixed terrain.

So basically it’s hard to say, because the difference between the slowest and the fastest group rides has been 3X!!

The slowest group ride I’ve ever “heard” of, or seen on Strava in my case, was one in the Peak District which averaged just 3kph (!)

Is it not a trick question?

Anyone can estimate how long a ride should take by looking at a map, weather, riders etc.

Surly the point of being the leader is the planning and knowing what do when it goes wrong.

Set Garmin to total speed/time for ride not moving time.

Though most assessors will will not allow you to use a Garmin on the assessment ride. It’s good ole paper maps 😀

You can use whatever you want as support to using the map route. For a really important gr (eg calling mtn rescue) I got brownie points for double checking the map gr against phone.

Must be tutor specific. The one on my group would only allow electronics for distance counting, no map or nav use with it. That was early 2017.

Thinking about it as a worst case nasmiths rule for walking is probably right for a bad day on the bike