IT DOESNT **** MATTER WHO PAYS FOR WHAT. PAYING FOR SOMETHING NEVER GIVES YOU THE RIGHT TO HURT PEOPLE WHO HAVENT PAID FOR IT.

IS THAT **** CLEAR?

RIGHT THEN

Who are you trying to convince with that by the way ?

Nobody here has said any different have they.

Or do you just like shouting stuff.

Does anyone have a constructive message for her employer?

No need. Her employer already responded appropriately taking it v seriously. The ironic thing about it all is that they sponsored a local charity cycle that several of the partners participated in so I am sure that this girl is in deep s**t with them as well as the law 🙂

Why don’t we, tax people (more) for using petrol and stop taxing ’em for having some types of car. That way people who drive about more pay more tax which is fair, no-one thinks they’re more entitled to the road because all they’re doing is paying for fuel, people who drive about more will want to drive about even less thus encouraging biking and buses and canal barges and every one will love cyclists.

Sometimes I’m so far in genius land my wife calls me Stephen.

There is a certain irony that one of her company’s specialist areas is Tax advice.

That way people who drive about more pay more tax which is fair

Quite often the people who do the most miles are running small businesses.
Personally I do loads of miles as part of my job, and make very little money as it is.

I would reckon that such a change could do some serious damage to my business, or possibly even close me down.

It seems fair that those who use the roads the most should pay the most, otherwise they are just being subsidised by the rest of us.
Your customers would have to pick up the full cost of your services then?

Why don’t we, tax people (more) for using petrol and stop taxing ’em for having some types of car.

Well I suspect the theory is that VED /car tax is a “nudge” tax. By calling it out as a separate charge it makes folk think about it more and allows car manufacturers to make a feature out of an otherwise boring technical detail about emission levels. And it weights prices slightly more against the heavier polluting cars.

Conversely abolishing it and add 1p to petrol or whatever would be punishing the folk that have bought low CO2 cars.

I’d have to agree , abolish ved increase fuel duty
Takes away any issues with cars on private land etc and makes fuel
Tax purely an environmental thing

Low co2 cars will use less fuel ?

Your customers would have to pick up the full cost of your services then?

And everyone would pay more for everything because it cost more to get stuff onto the shelves.

So basically you would still be paying for the “subsidy” you didn’t want to pay for in the first place.

It seems fair that those who use the roads the most should pay the most, otherwise they are just being subsidised by the rest of us.

Doesn’t existing tax on petrol already do that?

I always assumed a cleaner car was a more efficient car (i.e. it got more out of the fuel you put in), so would it really punish low CO2 cars?

Only if I bought your product.

Yep – so why not go the whole hog? The Govt already gets another tax on new cars too – VAT.

I always assumed a cleaner car was a more efficient car (i.e. it got more out of the fuel you put in), so would it really punish low CO2 cars?

Yes it would because right now a low CO2 car benefits from zero car tax AND low fuel costs due to its efficiency.

So if you abolished car tax and put up fuel costs you’d increase the cost of running that car.

Gotcha. It would have worked if we’d not already introduced the zero rated VED level.

Quite often the people who do the most miles are running small businesses.

Everyone does, it’d all even out. All your competitors would have the same problem, costs would move about. It’s the only logical explanation both from a equality point of view (I for example pay full road tax on two cars and yet ride 6000 cycle commuting miles a year – It’s not fair!!), and from an ecological point of view people will have to reconsider the way they do things. If fuel is a pony a gallon, riding down the local grocer with a trailer on your bike seems perfectly acceptable.

We HAVE to get on top of our fuel consumption. Raising fuel costs is the only way. That will necessitate different approaches to business, people will use local firms rather than great big ones, you’ll not have to drive about so much, my business which operates over a huge geographical area will need to localise resources thus providing employment to some deprived areas, it’ll all be for the best.

Gotcha. It would have worked if we’d not already introduced the zero rated VED level.

Sort of, though even at the Band B (£20pa) and Band C (£30pa) level they could end up paying more, depending on how much was added to fuel duty and how much they typically use a year.

e.g. abolish car tax and put 1p a litre on fuel duty instead and any Band B driver using more than 2000 litres a year would be worse off.

It should be possible to work out how much is collected by VED and how many litres of petrol/diesel are sold each year in order to come up with a figure. I suspect it would be a lot less than 1p per litre though?

Edit: £6Bn pa in VED 😯
Edit2: 5.6Bn Litres of Petrol/ 4.1Bn Litres of Diesel.
Edit3: and about £128m in collection costs

Ok – about .6p per litre (more than I’d have thought)

I suspect it would be a lot less than 1p per litre though?

In which case you have to ask would it actually have any effect on the factors people consider when buying a car?

Right now I doubt anyone would think about a 0.1 mpg difference when buying a car, but if it was Band C versus Band D then I bet they would.

Only if I bought your product

I’m probably not the only person who uses Petrol/Diesel in the course of running their business ??

There may be others.

Yep – and the costs of providing services/products should be borne by the customers. Perhaps some service providers would actually be able to offer a lower cost based on the use of public transport, the bicycle or not travelling at all.

Probably not almost every Shop and supermarket though eh ?

Who are you trying to convince with that by the way ?

Nobody here has said any different have they.

Or do you just like shouting stuff.

SHOUTING

Why don’t we, tax people (more) for using petrol and stop taxing ’em for having some types of car. That way people who drive about more pay more tax which is fair, no-one thinks they’re more entitled to the road because all they’re doing is paying for fuel, people who drive about more will want to drive about even less thus encouraging biking and buses and canal barges and every one will love cyclists.

Was abolishing VED and bumping fuel duty or basing road tax on annual mileage not proposed a couple of years ago?

If I recall correctly even the devil Clarkson himself spoke up in favour, the logic is impeccable, those who drive the polutiest (thirstiest) vehicles more miles pay the most, those that buy a clean machine and drive less, pay less…

The truth is nobody really pays a sufficient rate for the pollution their car creates, including Leccy jobs…

But as was said, VED is no excuse for dangerous driving…

the logic is impeccable… those that buy a clean machine and drive less, pay less…

Except they’ll pay more than they currently do, as I explained above.

I do hope that all those of us bleating to each other on a cycling site are actually posting their great points in the places where they might change someone’s mind.
If not it’s all hot air.

ffs who turned this into a boring VED thread? I wanted updates on the story not mindless rehashing of something we all know about anyway, oh wait, I just realised where I am.

I do hope that all those of us bleating to each other on a cycling site are actually posting their great points in the places where they might change someone’s mind.

The targets of any discussion are of the intellectual capacity displayed below.

“I just hit a cyclist and then tweeted about it”

Debating with these people will never change their minds, we should turn up with twenty benson and a 2 litre bottle of ALDI blue cider if we want to do that. 😉

what fuzzy said!

ffs who turned this into a boring VED thread? I wanted updates on the story not mindless rehashing of something we all know about anyway, oh wait, I just realised where I am.

Exactly, it’s gone way off topic now.

Back on topic

Its made the Mail, the Guardian & The Independent. I bet this Doris is feeling bloody stupid now!

ffs who turned this into a boring VED thread? I wanted updates on the story not mindless rehashing of something we all know about anyway, oh wait, I just realised where I am.

The story is done. There is nothing more to say really, unless you just want more links to how different news agencies are covering exactly the same thing?

If so then here it is on Sky: http://news.sky.com/story/1093752/drivers-twitter-boast-about-hitting-cyclist (who also explain the “road tax” thing – bless them)

I do hope that all those of us bleating to each other on a cycling site are actually posting their great points in the places where they might change someone’s mind.

And I hope everyone here has taken a moment to SIGN THE PETITION to help improve conditions on the road for cyclists?

Made the news here in Oz as well… Silly girl…

I’ll bet she’s regretting it now

“Police probe 21-year-old UK driver”

According to the CTC, Cartlon Reid will be on the Jeremy Vine Show (Radio 2) today at 1:40 to discuss the issue.

“Police probe 21-year-old UK driver”

Ooh it’s a bit more serious now. Strip and cavity searches for motoring offences!!
I’m on my third burning torch, whens the lynching going to start proper?

According to the CTC, Cartlon Reid will be on the Jeremy Vine Show (Radio 2) today at 1:40 to discuss the issue.

I shall listen with interest and try not to shout at the radio when the inevitable ****nuggets call in 😆

Was just about to post as what swavis said ^^

Might even call in to the Jeremy Vine show myself. 😉

The only realistic long term prospect to get people to understand this is a proper road pricing scheme. Abolish VED, cut fuel prices but then charge per mile with a fee based on time of day, type of roads and type of car. That way it’s easily understood by even the dippiest moron.

charge per mile with a fee based on time of day, type of roads and type of car. That way it’s easily understood by even the dippiest moron.

True – but then we’d get EVEN MORE hassle for not paying it on bikes (assuming cyclists would be exempt) so it’s not really a great solution for us.

Even more complicated though, the Fuel duty solution is so much easier – if you want to discourage commuters put a small small charge on commuter roads (i.e. 50p) on a morning, you could pay people to collect it, provide some employment. A mini congestion charge, would make good sense then for cyclists to be excepted.