got mine booked for a few weeks time. Just went on the utterly fabulous Scottish portal and booked it with no issues at all

Interesting…..

Also in Scotland – but wife can’t see to find one in the Highlands – searching for any location or any date looking ahead as far as Jan. I think they don’t put out all the slots at once, but having tried and failed a few times it would not take much more faff before it drops off the to do list. So our (her) experience has not been great.

Cougar

It’s likely that the booster caused a gout flare-up. It’s surely not even possible that the vaccine caused it in the first place? Is it?

Hard to know, not in the UK because .err. must be British exceptionalism or a Brexit benefit but it seems common globally. As far as is it gout she has or is it a different auto immune response… that’s not really known either.

Both my mum and myself have pretty screwed up immune systems anyway… the positives include never developing flu and/or most viral infections… the negatives involve our immune systems taking exception to stuff that is generally OK for the wider population including many pharmaceutical products but equally foods.

We both tested positive for Covid but neither of us got ill… indeed mum was over nursing my brother. This is pretty typical for either of us getting any common virus. I’m also naturally immune to Mycobacterium tuberculosis (1:100,000).. as I said weird immune systems

I had Covid in delta and omicron … basically a sniffle and headache for a few hours so then fine the next day and that more retrospective in that I’d not have known if I hadn’t tested.

We’ve been vaccinating successfully since the 1700s. How much research and testing does he want?

I assume his BIL is referring specifically to the Covid vaccines not cow pox.

I think that was a typo, he meant Moderna / something else.

Yep sorry, I meant Astra Zeneca. I’ve had it twice and had no reaction so I’d be happy to have it again.
As I say we both react atypically to many things so why essentially take another roll of the dice ?? I’d rather just get another live dose TBH as I didn’t react badly to that.

@convert I just looked and inverness has a few appointments in the next couple of weeks.

You don’t need it for travel pretty much anywhere AUI but if you have any more vulnerable friends and relatives (assuming you don’t consider yourself to be) you’d still be doing them a favour having the additional jab. You may well get offered flu jab at the same time, same reasoning applies. (though TBH I would get that for myself anyway, catching flu 3 weeks before a marathon I’ve trained all winter for would be a right pain in the arse).

I assume his BIL is referring specifically to the Covid vaccines not cow pox.

Point is, even relatively modern vaccine technology is mature. mRNA cell treatment is as old as I am.

This specific vaccination was generated quickly it’s true, but that’s what happens when you get ten men digging a hole normally dug by one when we already know how spades work. It was an all-hands-on-deck response to a global emergency. For him to say it hasn’t been researched or tested is simply ignorance, it’s a nonsense. (And even if it wasn’t then, it’s been tested on live subjects quite extensively in the last couple of years…)

We’ve been vaccinating successfully since the 1700s. How much research and testing does he want?

This specific vaccination was generated quickly it’s true, but that’s what happens when you get ten men digging a hole normally dug by one when we already know how spades work. It was an all-hands-on-deck response to a global emergency. For him to say it hasn’t been researched or tested is simply ignorance, it’s a nonsense. (And even if it wasn’t then, it’s been tested on live subjects quite extensively in the last couple of years…)

Oh please. You know, I know, my wife (nurse) knows, the vast majority of people know. You try telling him that.
He’s the most stubborn, awkward git I’ve ever met.

@ TiRed

To be honest I don’t think it really matters. Protection from serious morbidity is what you want. You’d have that from all the childhood covid infections you didn’t get (because it was new in 2020).

Is that a typo, genuine question!?

“Would hate to disappoint except I see no reason to crow that you have or haven’t been stabbed. Why the announcements folks?”

They’re just reminding Santa how good they’ve been…

Point is, even relatively modern vaccine technology is mature. mRNA cell treatment is as old as I am.

mRNA vaccines have only existed since 1989, first human trial was 2001…..

Fiiiiiiine, you’ve all guilted me into it. I’ve just booked my 5th jab after the surgery have nagged and nagged me and rebooked my flu jab as well.

@convert – pm’d you

Covid finished ages ago 🤷‍♂️

It’s just a cold now

It’s turned into a ‘rough’ cold in me, it has stopped me even thinking about excercising ! Chuck that in an old person, and it’s another severe cold/flu that ‘s going round you wouldn’t want to pass to elderly parents/grandparents.

Weve a friend that’s ‘it’s gone now, not bothering’ (someone that has lots of cosmetic procedures) – it’s not about them but elderly relatives still. I got covid from my 21 year old son who had been clubbing. It actually hit him worse than me, and I’m 53. He’s lost pay though, as SSP and they didn’t want him in (can’t work remote) – me, I’m rough, but still working remotely.

I’ve avoided it the whole time it was ‘known’ – this is just how I was in December 2019, exactly the same.

As far as is it gout she has or is it a different auto immune response… that’s not really known either

I’m going for rheumatoid arthritis.

Not a typo. The reason infections tend to be relatively mild as adults is that we experience them as children and accrue immunity. See malaria for example and RSV. We’ve never had sars-cov2 as children so our first infection hits hard. You recall that children were infected but had much lower morbidity. That’s not true for influenza btw, since flu sheds its coat more often compared to coronaviruses.

Vaccination is basically imparting some of that residual immunity we would have had were covid a childhood viral infection like the other coronaviruses – all of which you’d have had (except MERS and Sars-cov1) a few times from childhood.

I’m sure someone will be along shortly to say how they’ve had no vaccinations and are perfectly fine….

Go on then, I’ll take the bait, as it’s undoubtedly aimed at me

It’s quite plain now I’m not having the vaccine, so whatever your choices, I’m not advocating either way, just relaying my experience for the sake of a differing stance.

51yrs old

I’ve had it for sure twice (not substantially ill) and possibly a third time recently. I’m currently working in an office and it’s ripped through there a few weeks ago – all the up to date jabbed, off ill for a week. Me – didn’t catch it, or if I did, it would explain the week long headache – my wife had a similar week long headache, but we both consistently tested negative on LFT’s. The one vulnerable person that we knowingly come in very close contact with at least once a week is my FiL – he’s been fine,. Wife is double jabbed, not boosted, so that will have waned. When she had covid in March and the vaccine was still possibly ‘protected’ she was rough as.

All anecdotal and not trying to prove a point, just sharing my experience.

BTW, my mum is early 70’s, had a brain tumour, has severe dementia (from radiotherapy for the tumour), is totally immobile, has chest problems, is in a care home, had covid (no way I could have given it her) and still keeps on trucking (although for her sake, I wish something would take her). She’s now had a stroke – no way of knowing if that’s covid, the vaccine, or just life’s cruel way. As I say, all anecdotal and no basis for fact

I’ve had it for sure twice (not substantially ill) and possibly a third time recently. I’m currently working in an office and it’s ripped through there a few weeks ago – all the up to date jabbed, off ill for a week. Me – didn’t catch it, or if I did, it would explain the week long headache – my wife had a similar week long headache, but we both consistently tested negative on LFT’s.

If you don’t suffer overly much from catching it, good for you. We know that a large proportion of those who catch, carry and spread COVID are asymptomatic. That’s one of the reasons it spreads so well – poeple genuinely don’t know they have it, so they carry on as normal and spread it around. Have you considered that maybe a lot of those it “ripped through” in your office mayhave caught it from you, and so wouldn’t have caught it if you;d had the vaccination and not caught it yourself in the first place? It’s as likely to have come in frfom another vector of course, but that’s the point – the more people who are vaccinated, the lower the chances of it spreading.

Personally I was down to the walk-in centre they day they announced I was eligible. Have had moderna * 2, then pfizer, then nother moderna. Interestingly, my gout has flared up a couple of time over the past year, hadn’t connected it to the jabs. It’s been fine for a few years and even the “flares” were minor, but I’d just put them down to me being overly tired

Thank goodness we in the UK have well and truly learnt our lessons from covid and are now fully prepared four a potential new pathogen in the future.

UK zoonotic research site left to deteriorate – MPs

Point is, even relatively modern vaccine technology is mature. mRNA cell treatment is as old as I am.

It’s not as old as you… Neither is one mRNA implicitly the same as all others.

This specific vaccination was generated quickly it’s true, but that’s what happens when you get ten men digging a hole normally dug by one when we already know how spades work. It was an all-hands-on-deck response to a global emergency. For him to say it hasn’t been researched or tested is simply ignorance, it’s a nonsense. (And even if it wasn’t then,

What you get when 10 people all try digging a hole at the same time is a collapsed hole and injuries from swinging picks and shovels.

it’s been tested on live subjects quite extensively in the last couple of years…)

Exactly it hasn’t been tested long or even medium term … it took longer than that to even associate VERY VERY OBVIOUS birth defects with thalidomide we still don’t actually understand how the tetragenic properties of thalidomide actually work… even though we do know to avoid giving it to pregnant women.

Until they have a decades testing at least on people with my specific auto immune disorders I don’t consider its been tested for me. My specific autoimmune disorders are easily lost in the noise ..

Plenty of research established a causal relationship with gout… it’s just our health service choose to ignore it but that’s not my main concern.. my concern is my immune system does weird shit .. for all I know I’ll develop something to the AZ in the future (or not) … but I already had 2 doses of that so it seems to me a 3rd or 4th dose is less of a risk than a completely different vaccine that seems to have affected someone with the most similar immune system to me adversely.

All that aside … I’m happy to take a AZ booster for the benefit of others…

Basically I’m being asked to take what I see as a risk on a different vaccine again for the benefit of others when they have taken away the option I would take.

If they offer me AZ again I’ll take it… if not then self evidently they prefer I don’t get further boosters.

The world has changed since the thalidomide scandal, in a large part BECAUSE of the thalidomide scandal.

Can we close this thread before it just becomes another dumping ground for anti-vax bullshit?

With respect Steve, your specific situation is an edge case. Have you actually asked them if they can provide the alternative drug?

The rest is just whataboutery. We can argue about research, testing, side effects, blah blah until the cows come home but the bottom line is that people are not choosing between having the vaccination or not, they are choosing between potential complications from the vaccination and potential complications from Covid. “It hasn’t been tested in the long term” is bogus because neither has Covid, so which would you rather have?

There are people on this very forum who have lost family / friends to Covid. There are people on this very forum who can tell you all about Long Covid. There are, I have no doubt, people who will have had adverse reactions to the vaccine. But I’ll bet you my house that the number of people with vaccine-related health issues / death is vanishingly small compared with those from Covid-related ones.

I’ve just had my flu jab.
Asked the pharmacist about the possibility of just turning up at a walk-in centre on spec for Covid booster and she advised me not to do that, said I’d probably be turned away.

Plenty of research established a causal relationship with gout…

Care to provide a link? I looked and couldn’t find anything. I found a potential link with pre-existing conditions (a brief flare-up), but nothing to suggest that it could be causal in previously healthy people. (And whilst I’m no doctor, I can’t begin to imagine how it might even be possible.)

Asked the pharmacist about the possibility of just turning up at a walk-in centre on spec for Covid booster and she advised me not to do that, said I’d probably be turned away.

Would she actually know?

When I went to have mine, there were two people ahead of me. I was in and out inside of ten minutes. I don’t know of course, and your centre may be different, but I can’t see why they would have to turn you away. Can’t hurt to try if it’s convenient to get to?

Or, make an appointment…

… oh, wait, is it an age thing, are you under 50?

… oh, wait, is it an age thing, are you under 50?

Yes! 🙂

THey check your NHS records when you go to the walk-in centre (well they did when I went) so I think you might be turned away 🙁

Depends where you’re travelling to.

I’m in Australia which doesn’t have any vaccine or test requirements, but need to show confirmation when I’m flying home via the USA.

Plenty of research established a causal relationship with gout…

So you’re happy to accept casual research but not the vast amounts of research over decades to develop MRNA vaccines. Interesting.

I take it you now know it’s gout as you said it wasn’t known if it wS.

With respect Steve, your specific situation is an edge case.

Totally agree … I’m saying why I haven’t had a booster personally.
This is the difference between medicine and public health…
In medicine they try and save each life … vs public health where they try and save the most lives.
The problem is on an individual level public health is going to kill some people but so long as its less than it saves it’s a partial success?

However the point perhaps is there are probably (almost certainly) other edge cases that get lost in the short term stats. If you look back (I hope) at no point am I claiming not to be an edge case…

I’m pointing out that mass stats collected in a short term potentially hide effects to different edge cases.

Have you actually asked them if they can provide the alternative drug?

Asked who ? That seems to be the first problem/challenge… my understanding based on experience of the first two is I make an appointment and they refuse to tell you which vaccine until you arrive then you can either say yes or no.

Again given my understanding the vaccine (AZ) I already had isn’t available in the UK …

The rest is just whataboutery. We can argue about research, testing, side effects, blah blah until the cows come home but the bottom line is that people are not choosing between having the vaccination or not, they are choosing between potential complications from the vaccination and potential complications from Covid. “It hasn’t been tested in the long term” is bogus because neither has Covid, so which would you rather have?

There are people on this very forum who have lost family / friends to Covid. There are people on this very forum who can tell you all about Long Covid. There are, I have no doubt, people who will have had adverse reactions to the vaccine. But I’ll bet you my house that the number of people with vaccine-related health issues / death is vanishingly small compared with those from Covid-related ones.

I don’t disagree and my mum lost lots of friends to Covid… I/we lost a family friend 2 weeks ago.
However for me personally I’ve had Covid variants twice (according to LFT) and 2 injections of AZ.

I’m happy to have more of either… based purely on my own personal experiences. My personal experiences will be different to everyone else but possibly more important atypical.

But I’ll bet you my house that the number of people with vaccine-related health issues / death is vanishingly small compared with those from Covid-related ones.

I go back to the “This is the difference between medicine and public health… ”

I only got the initial vaccination because I didn’t want to be responsible for killing others.
Right now either they offer me the AZ or I don’t get vaccinated because I’m done with it.

The number of adverse effects / ‘random’ deaths, and the amount of unjabbed not getting sick, should tell you that getting the jab is a bad idea.

So you’re happy to accept casual research but not the vast amounts of research over decades to develop MRNA vaccines. Interesting.

What do you call casual ?

Lu J, He Y, Terkeltaub R, et al Colchicine prophylaxis is associated with fewer gout flares after COVID-19 vaccination Annals of the Rheumatic Diseases 2022;81:1189-1193.

Yokose C , McCormick N , Chen C , et al . Risk of gout flares after vaccination: a prospective case cross-over study. Ann Rheum Dis 2019;78:1601–4.doi:10.1136/annrheumdis-2019-215724 pmid:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31366470

but not the vast amounts of research over decades to develop MRNA vaccines. Interesting.

I didn’t say that I said the current mRNA vaccines were not decades old

What I don’t trust is anything that someone like Matt Hancock or Dido Harding have been involved with.

I take it you now know it’s gout as you said it wasn’t known if it wS.

I don’t know, she has marble shaped growths on some of her joints … appeared after vax 1 and got worse after vax 2.
Does it matter ???

What do you call casual

I think Drac’s dyslexia has caused a causal/casual misunderstanding here…

The number of adverse effects / ‘random’ deaths, and the amount of unjabbed not getting sick, should tell you that getting the jab is a bad idea.

I’ll be sure to give your evidence the appropriate consideration in my future decisions.

As an aside, when I went for my recent booster, the address they had on the system was my uni address from 30 years ago. Does anyone know how that an even happen, or who I could get to correct it? They did have my current postcode, which obviously doesn’t match the old address, and all of my details are correct on both the NHS app and at the local surgery.

But….how they can also still be using a record of where I was back in the 1980s, when I’ve moved several times since…is it all kept in filing cabinets somewhere?

I don’t know, she has marble shaped growths on some of her joints … appeared after vax 1 and got worse after vax 2.
Does it matter ???

When you claim the vaccine caused gout, yes. I’m still going for rheumatoid arthritis going off the immune system history.

I think Drac’s dyslexia has caused a causal/casual misunderstanding here…

Possibly.

The number of adverse effects / ‘random’ deaths, and the amount of unjabbed not getting sick, should tell you that getting the jab is a bad idea.

Ok.

Number of adverse effects and ‘random’ deaths as a proportion of the number of vaccinated people is miniscule.
I’ll leave you to continue with your epidemiological research so you can issue yet more drivel.

the amount of unjabbed not getting sick

See earlier commments about the fact that a LOT of carriers are asymptomatic. That doesn’t mean they don’t have it and CERTAINLY doesn’t mean they won’t spread it. However, we’re very much getting onto the topics of the main Covid thread here