More tubeless woes….

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  • More tubeless woes….
  • heavy_rat
    Member

    So wheels are Bontrager AT850 29er, tyres are Rocket Rons.

    I just cannot get the buggers to seat. Have tried Stans tape, Gorilla tape. Using a ghetto inflator up to 90psi.

    Air is leaking from the base of the valve. Have tried superstar valves and one from an old tube.

    Have even tried leaving a tube in the tyre overnight and the tyres still don’t seat properly.

    What’s going on? Its doing my head in. Please help

    Premier Icon wiggles
    Subscriber

    fairy liquid around the bead when inflating

    heavy_rat
    Member

    Tried that. Think I’m going to have to resort to an LBS visit

    Premier Icon Paceman
    Subscriber

    Are they Tubeless-Ready tyres?

    Premier Icon scaredypants
    Subscriber

    Air is leaking from the base of the valve

    Don’t bet on it, that’s just a big hole that it can eventually escape from.

    Check that you’ve got the tape tight (putting a tube in the tyre overnight will press it down firmly). If still leaking then it likely is the valve. I’ve had mastic round the last couple I fitted, or else a couple of shims cut out of old inner tube to help it seat into the hole might do it

    Premier Icon bigjim
    Subscriber

    i’ve had terrible trouble with the 2012 schwalbe tlr tyres, just won’t go on the rim

    Premier Icon Nobby
    Subscriber

    As Scardeypants says, if it’s leaking from the base of the valve it has nowt to do with the tyres.

    It will either be the valve seal itself or, more likely, the tape somewhere. Air that gets through the tape will invariably exit via the valve hole being the path of least resistance. Try overlaying it with leccy tape & see if that does the trick.

    What pressure have you pumped them up to, to try to get them onto the bead? Use plenty of lubricant and you may have to pump them up to nearer 60psi together them seated. I sometimes put the wheel on the other side of the garage door from me and the pump incase the tyre blows!
    Once the tyre is seated drop the pressure back to a safe 40 psi and spin the wheel to spread the sealant that should help seal the Valve.

    heavy_rat
    Member

    Just tried again this morning using a bit of old tube in between the rim and the valve and had some success in that I could get the pressure up to 60psi but still they wouldn’t seat 😐

    I’ve got gorilla tape on this wheel and its slightly too wide so maybe its stopping the seating happening.

    Premier Icon Yak
    Subscriber

    Not sure this is a tubeless ready rim. You may need a tubeless conversion kit, not just tape and a valve.

    Premier Icon Yak
    Subscriber

    Also – 60psi seems far too high to get seated. (possible accident type pressures!) On a tubeless ready rim it will seat at a very low pressure, almost before anything registers on the gauge. I think you should check to see if a tubeless conversion kit is needed.

    heavy_rat
    Member

    Not sure this is a tubeless ready rim. You may need a tubeless conversion kit, not just tape and a valve.

    They are not tubeless ready, but I am using tubeless tape from Superstar and and their valves. Have tried gorilla tape too with the same results. Other than a rim strip not sure what else I can try.

    60psi seems far too high to get seated.

    I got to 60 after disconnecting my ghetto inflator, pressures then falls to 20ish. i then pump manually to 60. when i’ve done this before normally the seating happens around 40psi.

    nikk
    Member

    60psi may wreck the rim, there is usually a max of around 40 for tubeless MTB.

    Take off all the tape, and clean the inside of the rim with meths really well.

    Get some normal electrical tape, and use that. Apply it so it is stretched on, and only a couple of times round.

    Put an X shaped cut on the valve hole.

    Put a tyre on with a tube in it, and inflate. Leave for 24 hours, or even go for a ride.

    Take tube out, being careful only to unseat one side of the tyre. Put tubeless valve in. Add soapy water with fingers to the unseated side of the rim. Carefully pull the unseated side of the tyre toward the rim as much as you can. Make sure not to unseat the other side.

    Inflate until tyre seats (should be max 40psi).

    See how long it stays up. Anything over a minute is not bad, go ahead and inject Stans. Anything less than a minute, maybe there are other problems. Where is the air coming out from?

    Premier Icon Yak
    Subscriber

    Apologies if I’m wrong, but I believe the tubeless tapes from superstar or stans are for sealing the spoke bed of a tubeless ready rim only. The rim is already designed to firmly hold and seal the bead of a tyre at low pressures. If its not tubeless ready then you’ll need a tubeless conversion kit where you get a thicker rubber strip that overlaps the entire rim to make a new seal for the tyre bead. This can be bought – eg stans or Joes, making sure you get one wide enough for your rims, or in stw style, there are various ghetto methods involving old small innertubes.

    Caveat on these kits – imo, not as reliable as a tubeless ready or UST rim. I’m sure someone will be along in a bit to say they work everytime though 😉

    chip
    Member

    I set up my new flows tubless yesterday with some new bonty xr4 team issues.
    The day before I fitted gorilla tape to go,two layers before wrestling on the tyres and tube.
    And I mean wrestle, I have never struggled as much to get a tyre on a rim ever.

    Once on it was impossible to seat even with the tube until I squirted some fenwicks bike cleaner I keep mixed in a squirty bottle around the edge of the tyre/rim before inflating with track pump which solved the problem.
    I only fitted the tube to help compress the tape to ensure it was stuck down properly.

    Yesterday, some more wrestling to remove tube, fit stans valves and refit the side of the tyre. Quick squirt around tyre/rims with some more fenwicks and inflated using co2 inflater then track pump to forty psi to reseat tyre.

    Deflated , removed valve core before adding joes super sealant and reinflating and giving it a good shake as if panning for gold.

    The only drama was the fact the tyre was really hard work to install and seat due to being tighter than a gnats chuff.
    I converted my bonty tlr wheels last week using their rim strips and valves with maxxis ardent/minion tyres no trouble at all as the tyres went on easy and the co2 inflater seated them in seconds with no soap required.

    Only thing I did not align valve with tyre logos on the flows as even with only one side of the tyre on it was too tight to rotate the tyre around the rim to line them up and did not want to risk damaging the gorilla tape trying .

    bikeneil
    Member

    Do it right, do it once.

    Trying to tubeless non tubeless rims will never be great. You may get them up but you’ll not be able to run low pressures without the risk of the tyres popping off.

    heavy_rat
    Member

    Just called my local Trek shop and the At-850 rim isn’t TLR. The guy there said it can still be done and to try pumping them up to 80-90 psi with a tube in 😯

    bikeneil
    Member

    Sell current wheels, buy Hope/Stans wheels and sleep well at night :mrgreen:

    chip
    Member

    If the tyre is holding air and friction is stopping the bead from seating, I would suggest more soap and invest in a co2 inflator or maybe run the wheels down to a petrol station and use their compressor.

    imp999
    Member

    I have used the plastic Bontrager rim strips with great success on non TLR rims.
    They are shaped in profile to lock in the bead as well as seal the spoke holes.
    I use their valves with them too.
    However – easiest assembly ever were the Stans ArchEX with just SS yellow tape on. Almost like they were designed for it……

    steve_b77
    Member

    I set up my new flows tubless yesterday with some new bonty xr4 team issues.
    The day before I fitted gorilla tape to go,two layers before wrestling on the tyres and tube.
    And I mean wrestle, I have never struggled as much to get a tyre on a rim ever.

    You sure as hell don’t need 2 layers of Gorilla tape on Stans rims to seat anything. One wrap of yellow tape is more than enough.

    My 29-3’s went up easy as pie with one wrap of yellow tape on Crests, using a track pump

    chip
    Member

    I used the gorilla tape because the shop where I bought the valves only had 21mm stans tape and I had a new roll of 1″ gorilla tape at home. And went round twice as better safe than sorry.

    mefty
    Member

    It’s Bob Crow’s fault.

    clubber
    Member

    +1 on the bonty plastic rim strips – I have them on my 29er and they’re great – I’ve never had any issues with them.

    TiRed
    Member

    i’ve had terrible trouble with the 2012 schwalbe tlr tyres, just won’t go on the rim

    This. And that was on Stan’s Crest with Stan’s yellow rim tape and Stan’s valves. I gave up. Continental X-king seated fine with a track pump.

    It’s your tyres, not your rims.

    Premier Icon Andy R
    Subscriber

    chip – Member
    I used the gorilla tape because the shop where I bought the valves only had 21mm stans tape and I had a new roll of 1″ gorilla tape at home. And went round twice as better safe than sorry.

    That’s what I use – I’ve never had a problem with it on Sun Ringle EQ27’s, Mavic 717’s,719’s, 219’s 321’s and with any number of Schwalbe, Maxxis, Michelin, Panaracer tyres. The only tyres I gave up on were a pair of Kenda Nevegals and ten only because the sidewalls were so porous.
    I regularly run low pressures (18-22 psi) too and yet now we’re getting told that we should only use “tubeless rims”.
    What’s the world coming to? – It probably is Bob Crow’s fault, he was over here too, after all.

    Premier Icon Yak
    Subscriber

    OP – so then, no consensus at all, all methods work and it’s Bob Crow’s fault. 🙂

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