More bad news fron London

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  • More bad news fron London
  • tiggs121
    Member

    Another cyclist dies on the streets – very sad.

    Story here

    iolo
    Member

    Very very sad.
    What is the matter this year? Why so many?
    I don’t recall things being so bad ever.

    deadlydarcy
    Member

    A 19 year old, knocked off his bike on Saturday night in Bath by some **** **** hit-and-runner has also died.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    Maybe a lot of people taking it up over the summer, and now it’s darker.. terrible though.

    EDIT: saw this on that link

    The fatality came as Metropolitan Police traffic officers gave road safety advice to cyclists and more than 70 lorry drivers at Vauxhall Bridge Road, Whitechapel High Street and Albert Embankment.

    Good.

    I may invest in some high viz.

    brakes
    Member

    this is getting ridiculous now.
    loads of coppers out this morning and tonight waiting at the lights to chastise cyclists – two of us were last through the changing lights and I could see he wanted to have a word with us but chose to tell off another guy without a front light.
    saw some massive **** of a lorry driver blatantly go through a red light and I wanted to have a word but he was too high up in his cab and it would have been a bit risky.
    two coppers on foot round the corner did **** all about it.
    had to shout at a bus driver for making a stupid move and trying to squeeze out 4 cyclists.
    there’s definitely something in the air at the moment…

    project
    Member

    Hopefully all the cyclists, and angry drivers, who got stopped will go home tonight and think about their behaviour on the roads, and just possibly take some more care when interacting with each other.

    brakes
    Member

    hopefully

    there’s definitely something in the air at the moment

    Really? Not from my point of view. But then, I dont ride like a dick, and I don’t get angry.

    Stay safe, folks. Dont be a dick and ride with a clear brain.

    loddrik
    Member

    Surely this is just cycling promotion working and getting more people out on bikes but lacking the cycling and road skills and experience to anticipate and avoid danger…. I can’t see that drivers behavior has changed much.

    brooess
    Member

    there’s definitely something in the air at the moment
    Really? Not from my point of view. But then, I dont ride like a dick, and I don’t get angry.

    Stay safe, folks. Dont be a dick and ride with a clear brain.

    Interesting you say that Flash cos I’ve been thinking there’s something in the air in London in recent months too. Almost as if all the stories in the press normalise bad treatment of cyclists…

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    There is something in the air in Parliament Square, but I dunno if it’s better or worse than previously.

    I am thinking of changing my route.

    Well, riding in town every day, I’m just not getting this ‘something in the air’ stuff.

    Yes, the recent news is vile, and we all need to do more. But, not seeing any sort of conspiracy.

    brakes
    Member

    to clarify, by ‘something in the air’, I mean there appears to be more bad decisions being made around town – by all users of the roads – pedestrians, cyclists, motorcylists, cars, vans, lorries. everyone.

    happens every year around this time as people get pissed off because it’s dark and they’re not home yet. this year seems especially bad.

    project
    Member

    There seems to be a disproportinate number of young women driving cars, who have absolutely no idea of road spacing,road sence,spacial interaction, and general awareness of whats happening around them on the road at the present time.

    The rear view mirrors are for you to keep an eye out for what is happening behind and at the side of you, not for looking into and flicking your hair.

    Oh and dont scream all sorts of abuse at me, for being infront or at the side of you, you wouldnt do it on a bus, when you loose your licence would you luv.

    hh45
    Member

    Interesting you say that Flash cos I’ve been thinking there’s something in the air in London in recent months too. Almost as if all the stories in the press normalise bad treatment of cyclists…

    I think there have been some terrible legal decisions when it comes to prosecuting drivers that have killed cyclists but there is no ‘road wars’ as some would have it.
    Most drivers are v tolerant of cyclists and pretty patient. Its just that when drivers are on the phone / speeding / not indicating then the law needs to give an on the spot fine, every time. And of course riders shouldn’t jump lights, listen to music, use their phones or not check over their shoulder before changing lane or channel.

    neilnevill
    Member

    something in the air? not sure…its as bad as it always seems for a month after the clocks change but it usually settles I think. I got clipped by a woing mirror in camberwell new road last week, cut up by a bus this morning….and also nearly taken out by a young lady in a corsa who anchored on and slid for over a second (behind me…I was braced for impact but thankfully she got control and missed me)… about the same as usual then.

    I’m not finding parliament square any worse than normal moly, entering from millbank and exiting at whitehall, which way do you go?

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    In my office at least the deaths are raising the profile of cyclists, and getting some sympathy.

    Although I doubt any of them drive in London. In fact, who on earth does? Obviously it’s cabs, busses, and delivery people etc, but how many private motorists are there? And who are they?

    I’m not finding parliament square any worse than normal moly, entering from millbank and exiting at whitehall, which way do you go?

    I go from Buckingham Palace way over the bridge. So you’ve got to get right as you enter the square, where loads of cabbies are peeling left off the square to go left down Whitehall, then you’ve got to get right again through all the traffic forcing its way left down Victoria embankment, which is most of it.

    The dreaded double-merge manoevre (which is bad enough in a car) twice, against the majority flow, with pepole rushing for lights, and in London with mostly impatient cabbies.

    vickypea
    Member

    It is very sad, but remember that more pedestrians are killed in London than cyclists- about 70 per year. Why is there not an outcry about that?

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    loddrick todays death and I believe several of the others have been 60+ yr old blokes, I doubt they are new to cycling

    causes?
    some interesting data here, from what I can tell
    http://www.dft.gov.uk/traffic-counts/area.php?region=London
    overall motor traffic is down in london by about 20%, ever since the c-charge came in
    the number of cars has reduced by 40%
    the number of cyclists has nearly doubled
    the number of buses has increased by 30%
    the number of LGVs and HGVs has stayed the same, so by proportion the %age has increased
    and I suspect that traffic speed has also increased due to reduced number of cars
    and of course borris famously sped up traffic lights across london to increase traffic flow

    also the data above is only up to 2012
    and it certainly seems, in west London, that there is a huge construction boom going on, there is a constant stream of cement mixers and tipper trucks on my commute I would suspect that 2013 would see an increase in HGVs

    either way there are a lot more cyclists around and f-all extra provision for their safety (painting the roads blue really doesnt count)

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Subscriber

    Interesting point vickypea, I’d wondered how the recent figures compared to those for pedestrians.

    We need to be really careful trying to pin blame and demanding action until all the facts of these accidents are properly examined – is it bad driving, bad road design, bad vehicle design/blind spots, lack of lights on bikes, inexperienced cyclists misjudging things, over confident cyclists misjudging things – at the moment we don’t know for sure.

    What I fear is that if we whip an internet storm, the politicians and Police will be looking for a quick fix knee jerk “solution” to show that they are addressing the problem and we’ll get some half-assed change in helmet law or something which may (and I obviously don’t know) have naff all to do with the actual problem(s)

    neilnevill
    Member

    I go from Buckingham Palace way over the bridge. So you’ve got to get right as you enter the square

    ooo, coming out of bird cage walk to go anywhere other than whitehall does look tough. you have my sympathy.

    stay safe people

    codybrennan
    Member

    All good stuff above, except: I’m not getting the ‘don’t listen to music’ thing.

    Why not? Its possible to ride with earphones in at a moderate level, and still be aware of your surroundings- much more so than if in a car.

    And, looking at it more blackly- if someone shoots a set of traffic lights and comes at me, what the hell can I really do anyway? I’m on a bike, I’m fairly agile, but from the reactions standpoint sight is much more important.

    project
    Member

    bus drivers discusingg cyclists on bbc, nicely unbalanced asper usual, especially the reporters introduction.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-24937699

    hh45
    Member

    Hearing is really useful for stuff coming from behind. Its not something that matters as much when driving a car as you’re all going the same speed. I stopped wearing a thin beanie under my helmet as I didnt like the 20-30% loss of hearing.

    Its your call but I think you’re mad (in a nice way obviously).

    brakes
    Member

    your hearing is 360 degrees, your sight isn’t. I’d prefer to use that extra sense.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    We’ve done this before on here. I got accused of having something wrong with my eyes because I also use my ears.

    Bonkers.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    as for headphones, I can see the argument but HGVs are loud enough that even if I was listening to Slayer at max volume on my ipod Id still hear them coming!

    eskay
    Member

    molgrips – Member

    I may invest in some high viz.

    A cyclist is critical in Frenchay hospital (Bristol) after being knocked off near Frome last week. He was wearing high vis and had full lights.

    project
    Member

    vehicle drivers also seem to hit each other,horses, trees, lamposts and signs, quite often, non have ear phones on and some are stationary.

    Driver and cyclist eductation and training is whats reqd,along with strict enforcemet of the road laws, with fines investe in cycling and pedestrian infrastructure, because drivers all have to walk sometimes.

    Karinofnine
    Member

    Hi viz? Only this very morning a car pulled on to a roundabout that I was going around, it stopped maybe 18 inches away from me, I thought it was going to hit my leg and back wheel.

    I was wearing a white helmet, with white light atop, red light behind, a white jacket, longs with densely-packed reflective spots, Hope Vision 4 on front, red light at the back, bright red and pink courier bag, also with a light, and reflective strips (although, to be fair, the driver couldn’t see my back).

    As I remarked at the scene “WHAT THE **** DO I HAVE TO WEAR FOR YOU TO BE ABLE TO SEE ME!!!???” …

    The best part was the other cars tooting because they were being delayed momentarily.

    Premier Icon MrOvershoot
    Subscriber

    Sadly I also saw an utter tool weaving about on a bike through Liverpool city center tonight.
    Helmet, Hig-viz & lights on a Giant city bike:
    He rode through 7 red lights @ one point a pedestrian on the crossing had to jump back to avoid being hit, last I saw was him riding the wrong way down a one way street. If I could have I would have chased him down and informed him what a **** he was, but as I was obeying the lights I couldn’t. I could just see the twatish behavior was reinforcing what most car drivers think 🙁

    loddrik
    Member

    Sadly I also saw an utter tool weaving about on a bike through Liverpool city center tonight.
    Helmet, Hig-viz & lights on a Giant city bike:
    He rode through 7 red lights @ one point a pedestrian on the crossing had to jump back to avoid being hit, last I saw was him riding the wrong way down a one way street. If I could have I would have chased him down and informed him what a **** he was, but as I was obeying the lights I couldn’t. I could just see the twatish behavior was reinforcing what most car drivers think

    I nearly thought this was me until I read the description… 😉

    CountZero
    Member

    The number of utter dickheads I see riding bikes after dark, no lights, or very, very feeble ones, all in black, or dark clothing, sometimes even riding no-handed just astounds me. And not just in London, where I’ve been twice in the last six days, but cities like Bristol are even worse. Just suicidal, many riders.
    I may be terribly judgemental, but the first thing I thought when I heard about the lad in Bath, who worked in a city-centre pub, was; did he have lights and a helmet on, because it was a head injury that did for him, and I see so many riders around without either.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    vickypea – Member

    It is very sad, but remember that more pedestrians are killed in London than cyclists- about 70 per year. Why is there not an outcry about that?

    Is it connected to the fact that there’s more than 3 and a half times more pedestrians than cyclists?

    deadlydarcy
    Member

    but the first thing I thought when I heard about the lad in Bath

    The first thing I thought about was what a waste of a young life. Then I thought about the **** that decided not to bother waiting to see the consequences of his actions…or even if the cyclist wasn’t visible, at least stayed around to explain any mitigating factors…or perform some minor first aid that could have saved the lad’s life…or rung the ambulance which may have arrived crucial minutes earlier.

    They were the things I thought about.

    Wondering whether he had lights on his bike or was wearing the “wrong clothing” was way down the list.

    I may be terribly judgemental

    Yes, you may very well be.

    user-removed
    Member

    There seems to be a disproportinate number of young women driving cars, who have absolutely no idea of road spacing,road sence,spacial interaction, and general awareness of whats happening around them on the road

    Generally speaking I’d have to agree, bit last night my father in law drove us to Durham – 20 minute journey. He’s 55, drives a Discovery and has been driving for 30 odd years.

    He managed to narrowly miss a few cars and pulled into the middle lane on top of a Luton van. It was only me shouting that stopped a collision. “Stupid **** shouldn’t have been undertaking” was his only comment :'(

    Premier Icon Nobeerinthefridge
    Subscriber

    Spot on DD.

    user-removed
    Member

    And,

    What I fear is that if we whip an internet storm, the politicians and Police will be looking for a quick fix knee jerk “solution”

    If we do nothing and suck it up, what then? Better some exposure and publicity than just accepting the death toll.

    JCL
    Member

    All these cyclists riding like tossers comments are probably true but I bet the percentage of such riders is very low so the chance of them adding to the statistics is next to zero. They’re nothing to do with the deaths and it’s pointless bringing them into the argument. If people are blowing through lights all the time as people say they do they’re not going to be cycling long.

    How many cyclists braking the rules of the road have killed a car driver?

    It’s the term “cyclist” that dehumanizes us. Would much rather son/father/daughter etc on a bike. To remind all that these are people.

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