Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 42 total)
  • Moral Dilemma/ Whistle Blowing
  • donkeysled
    Full Member

    Lets say I’m a plumber, for arguments sake. I am installing nice, fit for purpose bathrooms across government sites over multiple months, long contract.
    Before we have even finished the contract we have now been told that all of the bathrooms we have installed are being ripped out and upgraded.
    The people running the contract ( government) knew full well that they were going to install all of these then upgrade afterwards.
    Complete and utter waste of taxpayers money.
    I am earning ( self employed contractor) and the companies that I am working for are obviously making money but I feel that any work I do now is just going to be ripped out so why have pride in what I am doing, and I feel bloody angry that this is going on.
    I feel like saying I don’t want to be involved in the government sites but times are tough ( obviously) and I cant afford to lose thousands in pay over the next few months.
    If I complain to someone in the government I will most certainly blow my cover because it will be obvious what contract I am involved in and most likely lose my position contracting for this particular company.
    The PAYE ( fully employed) staff I’m working with have made their feelings known to those up above but have been told to just basically get on with it.

    I’m ultimately being given this work by the government and making a nice few quid, which I cant afford to turn down, but it just feels wrong that they are fitting this stuff knowing full well its being ripped out to just do it twice.

    Am I being naïve? Is this just the way of the world? Is this just the tip of the iceberg?

    tjagain
    Full Member

    some will be taking bungs for that my guess so yes – blow it wide open

    I speak as a victim from the council scamming folk doing unneeded work under stat notice

    doomanic
    Full Member

    I need a new bathroom, you’re not in the West Midlands are you?

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    fossy
    Full Member

    Not your issue, but only the ‘staff’ can make an issue of it. Your job is to fit the new bathrooms.

    Why the hell would they replace them though ? Seems absolute madness. The only issue is if the existing stuff isn’t up to standard, but the longer term plan for the building would change which needed a better potty ? God knows.

    Chartered Accountant here, so I’d be sticking up a stink if I was a Govt employed accountant. I wouldn’t allow it.

    Unless you know the full story, there isn’t much you can do. We wouldn’t do shoot like that where I work (Uni)

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    I need a new bathroom, you’re not in the West Midlands are you?

    +1, but N London?

    FunkyDunc
    Free Member

    Not quite in the same league, but I used to work for an engineering company that had government contracts. Rather than just replacing what needed replacing, they would replace everything

    A lot of government contracts get exploited though don’t they, after all no one is paying for it are they !?

    tjagain
    Full Member

    This is pretty much what Edinburgh council and its corrupt officials / fave contractors did. IIRC it was new kitchens in tower blocks that were empty and going to be demolished. The contrator got a fat contract, the official got his kickback. people did go to jail in the end

    mrchrist
    Full Member

    Pure government lunacy. Got to spend the budget rather then give it back.

    alanl
    Free Member

    I know of loads of similar things. Crossrail is my current gripe. Canary Wharf station was, supposedly finished. Now there are £80million of upgrades needed to the fit out, mainly the fire detection and electrical system which are both ‘not up to standard’. £80m. I thought that amount would build a new station. Yet there is no uproar at TfL about this cost.

    Even in the Housing Assn. I work for, there is little accounting for the stupid decisions our Bosses make. We pay at least 20% more for our materials than we should. We only have one account at one Builders Merchants, I’d guess at a spend of £1m a year, so we should be due a pretty good discount. But we don’t, we pay the ticket price. The Workers all think someone is getting a very big brown envelope every year.
    We subcontract out some jobs. This is done above our level, so the Workers dont even know about it until they see, by chance, other Companies working on our houses. And they do a shocking job, but are not held to account.
    Incompetent management is the main reason, but I wouldn’t rule out some corruption along the way.

    donkeysled
    Full Member

    Thinking about it, we actually did a new ‘bathroom’ on 13 floors of a Thames Water office block a number of years ago.
    Was astonished when only a few months later the block was demolished and rebuilt.
    Corruption.
    Nobody can say they didn’t know the process was in place to demolish when signing the contract for the new ‘bathrooms’.
    Hate it when my Thames Water bill comes in….

    i_like_food
    Full Member

    https://www.theguardian.com/community/2015/sep/02/guardianwitness-send-us-a-story

    I’m sure other newspapers/outlets have the same sort of thing,and some might not be so left wing if that’s not your thing. Journalists need this sort of tip so they can start digging.

    donkeysled
    Full Member

    I like food, done, thanks.

    brads
    Free Member

    Edinburgh new sick kids anyone ?

    Somewhere there are folk that need sacked for shit like this. If it’s known that they WILL be ripped out , then your company is complicit.

    FB-ATB
    Full Member

    Pure government lunacy. Got to spend the budget rather then give it back.

    My mum used to work in the local council supplies dept. April to Sept was busy as everyone was spending in a new budget year. It then got quiet up to Xmas as people reigned in the spend fearful of going over budget.

    Plenty of staff in her dept would have multiple Xmas shopping days as there was little to do.

    Come Jan-Mar it was crazy as people spend the best part of 6 months budget in 3 months or it would be cut the following year.

    donkeysled
    Full Member

    Not my company brads. I’m several rungs down the list of companies involved. The first one is a leading UK construction and infrastructure services company…
    Then it gets contracted to another, then another, then I’m just working for the final company involved.
    I’ve started the process suggested by I_Like _Food

    big_n_daft
    Free Member

    Thinking about it, we actually did a new ‘bathroom’ on 13 floors of a Thames Water office block a number of years ago.
    Was astonished when only a few months later the block was demolished and rebuilt.
    Corruption.
    Nobody can say they didn’t know the process was in place to demolish when signing the contract for the new ‘bathrooms’.
    Hate it when my Thames Water bill comes in….

    You probably could whistle blow on this, they will claim that the offices are owned by a separate group company but it will just be a way of sucking money into a non regulated part of the group. Ofwat or CCW

    Poopscoop
    Full Member

    The first one is a leading UK construction and infrastructure services company…

    Hah! What a surprise eh op?

    timbog160
    Full Member

    Yes it’s a waste of taxpayers money but one way to look at it is at least you are getting some of your taxes back by being paid for it. Sadly I doubt this will make much of a story – in my experience there are hundreds if not thousands of examples like this…

    dc1988
    Full Member

    I think it’s often the case that rather than government not looking for discounts, they are never offered them and are actually often given a higher price than a private company/individual might be offered in the first place. I think a lot of people see a government contract as easy money so deliberately over charge.

    donkeysled
    Full Member

    dc1988 this is not a case of overcharging. This is a case of saying ‘ we want you to install this, then rip it out and re-install something slightly better’ Knowing the whole time that it is a case of doing the same job twice and spending taxpayers money.

    dyna-ti
    Full Member

    Somewhere there are folk that need sacked for shit like this.

    They need horse whipped.

    Or sprayed in the eyes with chilli flavoured water 😡

    big_n_daft
    Free Member

    overcharging. This is a case of saying ‘ we want you to install this, then rip it out and re-install something slightly better’ Knowing the whole time that it is a case of doing the same job twice and spending taxpayers money.

    Probably find that they would need to pay anyway under the contract, so rather than giving the money away they make you do the extra install

    donkeysled
    Full Member

    Missing the point.
    We have installed a perfectly nice and fit for purpose bathroom.
    They have commissioned us to do this.
    Knowing full well that they are going to rip it out and install a slightly upgraded version.
    The whole thing stinks of corruption.

    I would say 10s of thousands of pounds per site, across the country.

    To then rip it out and dump it to install a slightly better version?

    Angry is an understatement.

    If I voiced my opinion I’d be out and someone else would gladly step in.

    This is giving me work but I hate it.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Whistle blow then

    Drac
    Full Member

    Surely you’re contacting them as a concerned resident who wishes to remain anonymous and has also contacted the local newspaper.

    duncancallum
    Full Member

    I dont understand if its s scam why its being done 2x and just not having cash syphoned off?

    i_like_food
    Full Member

    @donkeysled glad it was useful. From what you’ve said I think there is a story there, calling out gov or local gov incompetence (being charitable) or corruption is one of the crucial roles of a free press. Corruption, even if no one gets ‘hurt’ has a cancerous effect on society and the individual (as you’re experiencing).

    But… Don’t cut your nose off to spite your face. At times like these a regular income is crucial for you and family. Report it and do what you can, but working in the role you describe isn’t complicit in the scheme the way a manager or accountant might be.

    natrix
    Free Member

    Some contracts will have some money put aside for ‘maintenance’. Original budget isn’t enough to get the job done to required standard, so cheap bathroom put in, just to tick all the boxes. Then, out of a different ‘maintenance’ budget the replacement bathroom is put in. Everybody knows it would have been cheaper overall to put the better bathroom in, in the first place but they have to keep the bean counters happy. Sadly, I’ve seen it before (although not with bathrooms)……….

    Dorset_Knob
    Free Member

    Sounds like someone’s trying to apply ‘Agile’ to real life, where it is as much of a good idea as it is in software development.

    slowol
    Full Member

    Your other option is to speak to a local councilor, particularly if they are not ‘in power’ in your local area. It is their job to ask these questions officially and they often delight in them as it is proper stuff not just the usual arguments about bin rotas and parks. If you email them they will book you an appointment at their ‘surgery’, currently mainly online.
    Contacted mine recently about a local cycle path issue and he was most helpful, particularly when he realized that the political opponent had asked the transport officer to put up no cycling signs without democratic process or risk assessment! Still trying to get them removed though.

    Trimix
    Free Member

    The answer is simple. Your need for the work/money overrides the desire to blow the whistle.
    If or when that changes, then shout about it.

    Sometimes “doing the right thing” does not work in real life. It often a luxury only a few can afford.

    chakaping
    Free Member

    Private Eye are very keen on this kind of story, though any journo would probably need to understand what the angle was.

    By that I mean, have some idea of who’s making money out of it and how.

    Is there an “arrangement” with the supplier?

    With the lead contractor?

    Or is it a case of two overlapping contracts, which nobody could be bothered to apply common sense to?

    willard
    Full Member

    +1 for Private Eye. strobes@private-eye.co.uk from memory.

    andybrad
    Full Member

    my 2penneth.

    head down arse up.

    you are not high enough up the food chain to whistle blow. you’ll just get moved on.

    Flaperon
    Full Member

    Why the hell would they replace them though ? Seems absolute madness.

    Welcome to local government.

    Rochdale council rented my dad’s old factory for a year when he wound up the business. They ran network infrastructure throughout and when they left we expected them to take the switches etc with them, but didn’t care about the cabling.

    Instead they hammered a screwdriver into every port of every switch and socket to destroy it and left the equipment in situ. At the point where cables emerged behind the switches they were pulled tight and cropped flat against the wall to ensure the whole run was unusable.

    deltacharlie72
    Free Member

    @Flaperon I’m not sure whether I find that more galling than straight up corruption.

    At least with the corrupt contracts, kick backs, etc you know someone is doing it to make something on the deal. Someone’s getting something out of it. What you’ve described is just sheer spite. Destroying perfectly functional resources just so nobody else can obtain a benefit from them.

    I hope they were invoiced for the cost of removing the fittings and returning the building to the state in which it was before their occupation.

    johnx2
    Free Member

    I’d guess overlapping contracts, money not recoverable spend so may as well make them work for it could be the explanation, but worth a whistleblow for sure if at minimal risk. Blatant corruption is a possibility but less likely than pisspoor contract management (albeit benefiting ‘friendly’ suppliers).

    donkeysled
    Full Member

    Cheers for all responses.
    It’s under one contract so everyone knows exactly what’s happening.
    It’s just an excuse to spend money when it’s not actually required.
    Wouldn’t be so pissed off if they had asked us to fit the more expensive version in the first place but this just stinks of someone/ company getting a kick back and a government department just spending money without being held accountable.


    @andybrad
    I’m high enough up to make a fuss.
    Nothing will ever change if we take all keep quiet and sweep everything under the carpet.

    Thanks for everyone’s contributions.

    cheddarchallenged
    Free Member

    Everyone who has shared the crazy examples above should be ringing or writing to the National Audit Office.

    The NAO are ** extremely ** rigorous in their Value for Money audit work and would I’m sure follow up on any information shared.

    andybrad
    Full Member

    Good luck

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 42 total)

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