Similarly to last year, and the year before, as winter approaches, and Black Friday happens, I try to decide….

Should I buy 2 Jetforce for the family? (Other Avi airbags are also available but I can’t be arsed withe the hassle at airport security)

Kids are 12 and 14. Reasonably competent skiers, and in the case of the little one reasonably competent boarder after his second day last year.

We don’t ski a huge amount… maybe 12 days a year max, but when we do my only interest is off piste. Kids and wife generally too.

We’ve got Pieps, probes and shovels, but I’ve always avoided airbags up until now. Mainly due to the huge cost, but also because I don’t want to do anything that might encourage us to take more risks….. And the idea of the kids being in an avalanche terrifies me.

But I know we will go off piste, lots. So it makes sense to buy them. The plan was to buy two, which the kids could use whenever we ski/ride as a family and me and the missus could use them on those increasingly rare days when we hire a guide or go off and do something slightly gnarrly (not really gnarrly)

You regularly see ski school groups of similarly aged kids tooled up on places like St Anton, so why not….

I dunno. Just the thought of buying one means that i have to confront the reality of what might happen.

But then in four years time it’ll be out of my hands anyway.

So, whaddaya do?
Do you ski off piste with your kids?
To you take precautions?
Do you kid yourself it’ll be ok?

Opinions please.

So, whaddaya do?

Ask what an airbag is? Have loads in the car if that’s any use?

Do you ski off piste with your kids?

We don’t ski and we have no kids.

To you take precautions?

Yes, that’s why we have no kids.

Do you kid yourself it’ll be ok?

No need to kid myself, it’s great thanks.

Is ‘reasonably competent’ enough of a skill set to take kids into zones where airbags are justified?
Are you the one who’s being relied on to find your burried family or are wife and kids equally equipped to dig you out on their own whilst everyone else is under?

I’ve been through this, as someone who skis exclusively in the backcountry and the slackcountry.

I dont have an airbag at the moment, but will probably pick one up on my next trip! Like you, I probably get 10-15 days a year in – wish I got more, its my favourite thing to do!

Dont kid yourself it’ll be fine – go and arm yourself and your family with good decision making skills, avy safety skills, conditions assessment skills, dig some pits every day etc! Do a course – they’re loads of fun. Airbags are great, but they’re a specific tool and not a catch all. What will really save you loads of trouble in the back country is good planning, good decision making, good backcountry skills and drop the ego – ski to the conditions. If you’ve done all that stuff then yeah, buy a bag, but if you haven’t then do all that first!

Sounds like you’ve convinced yourself already, and if you’re asking the question then you probably need 4 not 2. Hope you never need them but you can’t put price on piece of mind. I’ve not got a bag but have all the rest because I had to have it all, plus training and practice for my own sake, my family and those I ski with. Apologies for the expensive answer!

No offence, and I’ll be honest I’m not a regular skier, but surely it’s a given for you all to have them if there is risk, two surviving kids looking for mum and dad buried alive is going to be **** traumatic especially if you were to not make it and they did, they’ve then got the part of getting down off the hill solo whilst also leaving you behind.

I’m probably more conservative where the kids are concerned so such as when we go to cornwall we will only surf/bodyboard/swim on life guarded beaches, we are not local and don’t know the sea well enough.

The plan was to buy two, which the kids could use whenever we ski/ride as a family and me and the missus could use them on those increasingly rare days when we hire a guide or go off and do something slightly gnarrly (not really gnarrly)

As above, you need 4 unless you have a magic spell that makes you invincible to the avalanche that just wiped out your kids.

I don’t think I would be putting them in avalanche terrain in the first place. Not a criticism, just my thoughts.

Majority, not all, of avalanches are triggered by first load. So either you go first and get buried and you die knowing you child was distraught looking for you, or your child goes first and you have to search for them knowing you led them there. I haven’t mentioned airbags yet.

it is indeed a moral dilemma!

We’ve got Pieps, probes and shovels, but I’ve always avoided airbags up until now. Mainly due to the huge cost, but also because I don’t want to do anything that might encourage us to take more risks….. And the idea of the kids being in an avalanche terrifies me.

Having an air bag won’t do anything to stop an avalanche from occurring.

But I know we will go off piste, lots. So it makes sense to buy them. The plan was to buy two, which the kids could use whenever we ski/ride as a family and me and the missus could use them on those increasingly rare days when we hire a guide or go off and do something slightly gnarrly (not really gnarrly)

Replace “air bag” with “Pieps” and tell me that logic makes sense. You either all need them or no one needs them.

To answer some of your questions though, I do occasional ski off piste but not often and would probably come down on “no” for an airbag, HOWEVER I don’t have kids or any other dependents so my decision would likely be different to yours.

To echo others, and while I am now lapsed I was an instructor and almost completed my mountain guide quals. You all need to be entirely confident you have been trained to use the equipment properly and that you can safely assess the snowpack, weather and general situation. That and skiing in safe areas with shallower aspects goes some way to mitigate risk. An airbag will undoubtedly help in a slide, but you don’t want to be in a slide in the first place so I would expend effort to get trained fully. Beyond that you could buy a bag and hope it all works out. FWIW I never took anyone under 16 off piste unless I knew they were trained and I could assess their ability beforehand.

We’ve got Pieps, probes and shovels, but I’ve always avoided airbags up until now. […] but also because I don’t want to do anything that might encourage us to take more risks

I don’t understand this part. Well, I understand the feeling, but it makes no sense when you think it through.

Lots of people say they would never go into avalanche terrain without Beacon, Probe, Shovel. So an unacceptable risk becomes acceptable with certain kit. But beacon, probe, shovel is a very uncertain safety net, over quite a narrow set of circumstances. IF a slide of a certain size happens, IF someone gets buried, IF you can get to them before they suffocate, IF they’re not buried too deep, IF they’ve not been swept over/through rocks and trees killed/seriously injured, IF you can get them to emergency care in time, IF you have phone signal/can self-rescue if you can’t call for help…. then the Beacon, Shovel, Probe may get you out of the trouble you got yourselves into.

There’s a HUGE amount of risk still remaining that you’ve chosen to take on because you’ve got your beacon, probe, shovel. To say that’s all fine and dandy and buttoned up, but having a airbag might make you take more risks, then you probably haven’t thought about the risks hard enough!

Why do people call everything a moral dilemma these days? This is just a cost benefit analysis. A moral dilemma would be 4 of you on a slope 2 airbags sitting in front of you and an avalanche behind you and deciding who got the airbags.

Unless you’ve a guide – stay on the piste…..you’re just a liability that someone else may have to risk their lives to dig up your bodies.

No amount of kit is a substitute for experience, skills & local knowledge..

Very good friend skis about 20 days/year and the whole family are very good (eldest son is 20 and now an instructor, youngest is better than her brother and will be an instructor after her A levels next year).
They always ski off piste and they all have air bags.
Although there is no substitute for common sense, stuff happens, so why wouldn’t you get them air bags?
Would you let your kids drive around in a car without airbags and seat belts?

Unless you’ve a guide – stay on the piste…..you’re just a liability otherwise!

No amount of kit is a substitute for experience, skills & local knowledge..

Steady on. Plenty of people with plenty of skills, knowledge and experience. Guides aren’t infallible, either.

while we’re on though, are there any airbags which work like a sort of under-layer for your normal pack/s?

Another lapsed instructor here. There’s little point of only buying two for the four of you, it’s tantamount to sharing shovels.
You’d be better off using the money for a few guided days for the kids so that they can learn responsible mountain craft from a local with decent knowledge of the terrain. The equipment comes supplied by them or can be hired, so there’s no real need to worry about the logistical dilemma of compressed air cans in planes.

Steady on. Plenty of people with plenty of skills, knowledge and experience. Guides aren’t infallible, either.

The OP would be better off spending their money on a professional whose job it is to keep you safe, than trusting on kit they use a fortnight a year to keep you safe.

The guides are just better at keeping you safe then any amount of gadgets..

Can only echo the thoughts of others. Equipment is an after thought once you understand the terrain and the conditions. They are an absolute last resort and they don’t guarantee survival. Plenty of experienced people with the equipment have died.

You don’t want to be in that situation in the first place. Get a guide for days you want to go back country.

Also if you visit different resorts each time you’ll never understand the terrain and risk.

Stick to off piste on the side of pistes or designated off piste areas and heed the avalanche warnings.

And the prize for the 1st world problem of the day goes to………..

Skiing is shit for the environment. Go on a bike holiday instead.

Recently built lots of display pods for ABS the air bag people.

Stick to off piste on the side of pistes.

I saw (& I mean saw…) a Father & his 2 kids killed within 50yds of a flat piste on a very benign looking slope on a beautiful sunny day…..they didn’t have a guide.

Would a guide have taken them on that slope? Genuinely, I don’t know, I was about 200yds away & I couldn’t tell you the condition of that particular bit of snowpack…..my point being proximity to the piste is no guarantee of safety.

You pay your money…

Skiing is shit for the environment

+1. Particularly on artificial snow..

https://www.responsibletravel.com/holidays/winter/travel-guide/saying-no-to-fake-snow