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  • Mopeds and 16 yr olds, words of caution or advice?
  • rockhopper70
    Full Member

    My lad, 16, has alluded to wanting a moped. He is at sixth form at the local high school and has two weekend jobs. It would certainly be handy for him to get around, and he’s fairly adept on two wheels, but CARS AND ROADS….

    Part of the problem is that we live in a very steep sided valley and most of the roads are steep or have quite a bit of gradient (Calder valley). Certainly his run to school goes up a hill that is 1st gear in most cars. I’m a bit concerned that a 50cc moped is just going to be too wheezy and he’ll actually be a bigger risk as he won’t even be able to keep up with traffic, never mind overtake.

    Anyone let their kid loose on a moped and want to share their experiences?

    intheborders
    Free Member

    As someone who rode mopeds and then motorbikes from an early age I couldn’t really say no to my kids when they wanted them.

    I put them through their CBT’s and some extra training plus took them out (me on my bike). I then had their Scooters derestricted once they’d run them in (managed about 45mph), 32-33mph is just a death wish.

    They all moved onto cars when they hit 17 y/o and passed their tests.

    Decent helmets, jackets & gloves too — but they’d been pillion with me plus I (at the time) was doing 15k-20k yearly commuting on bikes, so they understood to risks/issues.

    sharkbait
    Free Member

    Word of advice: “Lifesaver”

    I’m a bit concerned that a 50cc moped is just going to be too wheezy and he’ll actually be a bigger risk as he won’t even be able to keep up with traffic, never mind overtake.

    No different to a bike then!
    (other than wearing much more protective gear)

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    db
    Full Member

    Mine were thankfully never interested despite me riding bikes when younger and they were growing up. I had a couple of accidents which perhaps put them off!

    intheborders has the right approach. If any of my 3 had wanted one I would have had concerns. I walk past 2 lampposts in our valley which have flowers and notes on them remembering moped riders. One was riding a mates (with no helmet!) and the other was on their own bike but going way to fast.

    It does seem to be a very short phase. Maybe focus on him saving for a car!

    5lab
    Full Member

    would an e-moped be a decent option? still limited to 30mph but could be a chunk more powerful to get up the hills

    fossy
    Full Member

    As someone that’s ridden and crashed road and MTB pedal bikes all his life (including lots of hospital visits), what could you say ? Just get some proper training for him – best learning the issues before he encounters it for real.

    Fortunately my son is into cars.

    dogbone
    Full Member

    My son has a vintage moped which has spent more time in pieces than on the road. Honda PA50 Camino. Great fun and he’s learnt loads. He’s now bought (having earned all the money himself) a 125 to tour Europe in the summer.

    tall_martin
    Full Member

    I would advise looking at accident statistics with him

    If that doesn’t work, make him buy all the expensive safety kit first

    zippykona
    Full Member

    I’d rather ride a moped on the road than a push bike.
    You can wear plenty of safety gear and you can keep up with traffic.
    Ultimately ,is he an idiot?
    My nephew killed his best friend in a car as soon as he passed his test. We all knew it was going to happen because he was a monumental prick.

    dissonance
    Full Member

    Anyone let their kid loose on a moped and want to share their experiences?

    I let myself loose if that helps and that was when having a car licence meant I got the moped one for free. So sod all training just jump on and ride.
    Main problem would be on fast open roads. If they aint then the cars are normally less of a problem (just like cycling).
    How many mopeds do you see around? The struggling up a hill could be an arse. They are also less than great in winter conditions.

    footflaps
    Full Member

    Young people, far too many hormones in their blood and no experience + mopeds = a lot of very risky behaviour.

    Loads of young people on mopeds here race round like they’re on a private race track rather than roads with cars and immovable object like lampposts to hit when they loose control. I am amazed there aren’t more deaths. The other month I was indicating and turning left when a moped undertook me at 60mph in the cycle lane in a 30mph zone. I saw him and stopped, probably saved his life – he probably thought ‘yeah, what a rush’ and just carried on speeding in the cycle lane.

    All I can suggest is a lot more training than the CBT, which is very basic.

    tthew
    Full Member

    You probably know the answer to this better than anyone else.

    Does he already ride his bike on the road a lot and is confident with it?

    Is he the kind that of lad that is sensible and unlikely to get pressurised into stupidity by his mates?

    If the answer is yes to both of those questions, I’d probably say yes. Nothing in life is entirely risk free and there’s always going to be a first time to be on the road solo be this a car or moped. And cars are a lot faster.

    fossy
    Full Member

    How far is it to school/college ? Would it be more hassle with locking a moped up ?

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    I had one at 16, and a CG125 at 17.

    At 16, when you’ve never ridden anything faster, they feel plenty quick enough. My commute into 6th form was mostly country A roads and never had any issues. Think about it in two ways,
    1) the average speed of a car is probably <30mph, so very few cars ever bothered overtaking on anything other than the longest, widest, straights as there was probably a traffic jam visible ahead. If the car’s are in 1st gear they won’t be overtaking scooters.

    2) I managed 2 years of daily commuting in all weathers including snow and ice, and sold both bikes on in (almost) mint condition afterwards. And I was the minority both in having them restricted to 30mph/11Hp respectively and among friends on derestricted bikes mostly wrote them off, ended up in hospital, or both.

    Maybe the causation is idiots tended to derestrict their bikes rather than the other way around, but there was certainly correlation.

    would an e-moped be a decent option? still limited to 30mph but could be a chunk more powerful to get up the hills

    Might not make as much a difference as you imagine, the restrictor is usually in the CVT belt pulley, so it limits the gearing to 30mph, I remember mine would seemingly do 30mph everywhere (that wasn’t downhill). Obviously different on a Cagiva/Derbi with a manual gearbox.

    SSS
    Free Member

    Ive seen a lot more youngsters on the roads these days on mopeds than used to. Seems to be a resurgence, and obviously the Deliveroo/Just Eat lot can give youngsters wanting jobs, CBT and L Plates – sorted

    If hes used to bikes and the mechanics thereof (dry vs wet vs slippery surfaces and obstacles) then get him a moped, CBT and importantly all the gear. None of this riding with jeans and trainers etc. As tthew says, is he already savvy?

    I used to get back and forward to school on a moped with my mates, parked it at the school and the school office used to keep our helmets!

    Road safety – regardless whether on a motorbike or moped its about road positioning, defensive driving and aware of surroundings. If in a town, most traffic will be doing 20 or 30 anyway.
    As to being nuts on a moped, well at least restricted to around 35mph. Get road sense before getting car driving lessons etc.

    For the record My son wasnt interested in a moped/motorbike – in fact i had to make him take car lessons….

    FunkyDunc
    Free Member

    I mate of mine used a moped for years, day or night.

    She then was ‘gently’ knocked off it by a car and never went near it again.

    Why at 16 do you ‘need’ a scooter? I am sure its probably more that some mates have one and he wants to be part of the crowd.

    Say he can have one if he saves all the money for the safety gear?

    Personally my lad wont be getting one. He will use public transport, a push bike and save for a car.

    JAG
    Full Member

    I had a Honda C50 moped when I was 16 and a Kawasaki AR80 after that, if I had a child who wanted to do something similar then I think I’d let them.

    BUT I’d get them some training and take them out for a few rides with me on another bike so I can observe and provide sage advice.

    My experience was great, a couple of minor ‘offs’ which taught me lot’s and gave me stories to tell my mates and so many fun times it was worth every minute.

    My parents were worried (as all responsible parents should be) but they decided to let me have a go and stand by with advice and support. I’d take the same approach.

    zippykona
    Full Member

    Why at 16 do you ‘need’ a scooter?

    From the age of 14 me and my mates could tell you exactly how many days it was til we were “on the road”.
    Our whole lives were consumed by motorbikes.
    Will your son be magically safer at 17?

    monkeyboyjc
    Full Member

    We had this dilemma a few months ago – daughter going to college, college is 20min drive away in country roads.

    Almost convinced the wife, then a local nurse spoke to her (wife) and threw it completely the other way….

    JAG
    Full Member

    then a local nurse spoke to her (wife) and threw it completely the other way

    That’s a bit like asking my sister (a copper) about crime – according to her everyone is a criminal and looking to steal/rape/murder at every opportunity.

    PERSPECTIVE – is in short supply with some people.

    weeksy
    Full Member

    I know a small hand of people who’ve been killed on motorbikes… i know a lot more people who’ve died from other reasons.

    I know a lot of bikers… a heck of a lot.

    Sure, there’s a danger… of course… but it’s not instant death that’s for sure.

    intheborders
    Free Member

    For all those quoting accidents and the like, you’ve all known folk who’ve fallen down stairs, so why aren’t you all living in bungalows?

    fasthaggis
    Full Member

    If I was El Presidentie,I would make it the law that everyone had to cycle and motorbike long before they get to drive a car.
    It would give them a valuable appreciation of two wheeled transport,and (IMO) make them better road users.

    There has always been motorbikes in our family,my son is sitting part of his bike test today ,he knows the risks and has cycled on the road since he was a teenager.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    Only the OP can know how much of a dick his lad is likely to be on a moped. I think I’d insist on going on more than a few road rides to work on his awareness/lifesaver checks etc before I’d agree to it, though.

    trickydisco
    Free Member

    had a Honda C50 moped when I was 16 and a Kawasaki AR80 after that, if

    I had an AR50 at 16.

    Most of my mates had a DT50. Whacked a different exhuast on after this pic and changed the rear cog so it would accelerate faster.

    Used it to go to work, college and hook up with mates.It was essential as there was no real good public transport in the village

    rockhopper70
    Full Member

    Thanks all, he’s not pushing for this, just mentioned. When I say he’s Ok on two wheels, that’s bicycle control off-road, he/we try and cycle off road to get away from traffic.

    None of his mates have them, it is purely a practical possible solution.

    Road sense is going to be the issues, defensive riding and positioning. He’s not a muppet, but maybe it’s not a great idea. He would have to ride through Halifax where there are plenty of idiot drivers.

    We might park this idea and get him four wheels as soon as possible.

    StuF
    Full Member

    My lad had one, used it for commuting to his apprenticeship. He fell off a couple of time but luckily no major damage, some may or may not have been his fault vs a cars fault.

    His didn’t seem very reliable and often wouldn’t start. I did have to rescue him and the ped from a car park across town

    tall_martin
    Full Member

    I would also mention after numerous mistakes on my part on a push bike at a max of 20ish mph in Edinburgh I’ve given myself a life ban from motor bikes.

    Talking to someone with a massive bike he said “it’s me that turns the throttle”

    I am relatively sure I would be in an accident and it would be my fault due to my speed. Sure enough never to get a bike licence.

    I don’t know that many motor bikers. They all knew someone who had been killed/ maimed on a motor bike.

    b33k34
    Full Member

    I know a small hand of people who’ve been killed on motorbikes… i know a lot more people who’ve died from other reasons.

    I know a lot of bikers… a heck of a lot.

    Sure, there’s a danger… of course… but it’s not instant death that’s for sure.

    It’s worth looking at the detail of the motorcycle casualties. Everyone I know who was a biker knew people who’d died but they’ve also all been much older and on high powered bikes rather than kids on mopeds. A low powered bike, sensibly and defensively ridden, is probably safer that cycling on the road (as you’re going to be wearing a much better helmet and probably more protective clothing).

    A disproportionate number of motorcycle deaths and injuries (compared to other vehicle types) are ‘no other vehicle involved’ – 17.5% of all collisions. And there is a huge spike in collisions during the middle of the day at weekends (as well as the natural peaks during weekday work commutes) – high powered bikes, rural roads, people riding like idiots…

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-motorcyclist-factsheet-2020/reported-road-casualties-in-great-britain-motorcycle-factsheet-2020

    The other option, of course, is a decent electric commuter bike rather than a moped.

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    Road sense is going to be the issues, defensive riding and positioning. He’s not a muppet, but maybe it’s not a great idea. He would have to ride through Halifax where there are plenty of idiot drivers.

    We might park this idea and get him four wheels as soon as possible.

    This is the same argument the school run mums use to justify driving them to school. “Car’s on the road are dangerous, therefore my solution to the problem is to add one more car.”

    I had bus passes, mopeds, motorbikes (and a lot of bikes) from ~12 onwards as we lived in the middle of nowhere (it was hours walk to the road). I’ve had (and by tenuous definition, still have) cars, but still went out of my way to avoid using them where possible.

    Car’s are great for individuals in the short term, crap for the rest of society short and long term.

    Almost convinced the wife, then a local nurse spoke to her (wife) and threw it completely the other way….

    Then for balance find someone who knows people that used various transport options to go to college, then university, become Nobel laureates etc. Don’t just judge it by one extreme of the bell curve.

    ayjaydoubleyou
    Full Member

    If I was El Presidentie,I would make it the law that everyone had to cycle and motorbike long before they get to drive a car.

    This always comes up in any driving related or close pass thread. Yet here only one person has mentioned/jokingly suggested it. Slightly different when its your own flesh and blood isn’t it.

    I quite want a motorbike, never quite got around to the cost and time commitment. (almost certainly would have done if I hadnt discovered MTB).

    My mother and grandmother are quite against them. However I looked up the death statistics and found that a motorbike today is statistically safer than a car when my mum passed her driving test. She was happy to assume that risk at the time.

    cchris2lou
    Full Member

    In France we can ride a 50cc at 14. No test, just a 7 hour training Day.
    My son and my daughter both have a 50cc Sherco.
    6 gears and with an exhaust easy to get to 80kmh.

    Padded gloves are compulsory

    bfw
    Full Member

    thee motorcyclists died in 9 years outside my house…

    Two u-tuning cars – main road to M3/M25 out of SW London, and one was found dead on a little roundabout at 6am in the morning, no clue what happened…

    I love love love motorbikes, but not where I live would I dare to own one.

    I was a plonker on my bike and brushed death a few times as a teen, last go I met a drunk-driver and spent 14 weeks in traction, 6m on sticks and a career in the RAF ruined. Probably shortened my mum’s life in the process.

    I am going the same way with road bikes after 30 years of riding, same road as above I had someone u-turn infront of me the other day

    thegeneralist
    Free Member

    For all those quoting accidents and the like, you’ve all known folk who’ve fallen down stairs, so why aren’t you all living in bungalows?

    Sigh 🙄

    You get us stats on the percentage of 16 year olds using stairs that are killed doing so; versus the percentage of 16 year old moped drivers killed whilst doing so.

    Then I’ll explain it to you. ( if you still need it explained)

    footflaps
    Full Member

    In France we can ride a 50cc at 14. No test, just a 7 hour training Day.

    Almost twice the death rate on the roads vs the UK though…

    ji
    Free Member

    In addition to whast has already been said, make sure they understand that a powerde bike is much easier to take into a corner too fast and skid on leaves/mud etc – all my son’s offs were down to not reading the road correctly (moped and 125).

    Also factor in the theft factor – my son’s bikes were targetted multiple times (lots of minor damage including to the fairings, ignition, locks etc) and stolen once. I am not sure he’d get another one since moving to a city.

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    Sigh 🙄

    You get us stats on the percentage of 16 year olds using stairs that are killed doing so; versus the percentage of 16 year old moped drivers killed whilst doing so.

    Then I’ll explain it to you. ( if you still need it explained)

    Consider that the number 1 killer of teenage women, is teenage men driving. Men only avoid that statistic because suicide is #1.

    Being logical and callous about it, if someone’s enough of an idiot to crash a moped/125, they’re enough of an idiot to crash a car. At least on the bike though it’s only one person.

    doublezero
    Free Member

    My half penny’s worth is if you love your son don’t let him, for the sake of a year or two, I have just taken it that I will be a taxi if beyond cycling distance.

    I come from being an ex biker smidsy doesn’t cut it when riding down a straight road late at night and the car pulls across in front of you, I have to live with a paralysed arm in constant pain since the accident. Out of the 20 or thirty of us that used to ride regularly there has been one death but that could have been predicted two broken legs one broken ankle 2 broken arm and broken wrist and me paralysed arm. This was over a 4/5 year period between 16 and early 20’s

    They are great fun and allow for independence that most kids don’t have the opportunity off, but I think the standard of other drivers on the road is not good enough. I’m currently in battle with my 12 year old about getting a motor bike already, on this I’m not backing down.

    We need better public transport rather than having to rely on car ownership but that is another problem for another day.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    He would have to ride through Halifax where there are plenty of idiot drivers.

    This would be the clincher for me. Horrible traffic system, fast roads + aggressive idiots. Moped (to me) would feel quite vulnerable at a few spots around there.

    Edukator
    Free Member

    My neighbour got a moped when we were 16, he hit a Jag head on within a couple of months, several months hsopital and he still limps. He was lucky. Another friend got a motorbike but failed to see some poorly lit road works at night, he lived but his girlfiend didn’t and he still limps. Another friend got a motorbike, he killed his girlfriend and still limps too (mentally and physically). I got a car instead.

    Junior had/has a push bike and if ever he needs transport other than trains I lend him a car.

    The deal was that I’d drive him anywhere he needed to go beyond walking range at any time, and pay for driving lessons and a car.

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