Moots Road Disc – welcome to the future!

Home Forum Bike Forum Moots Road Disc – welcome to the future!

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 42 total)
  • Moots Road Disc – welcome to the future!
  • Premier Icon solarider
    Subscriber

    Earlier this year I took delivery of a Moots Psyclo X RSL with disc brakes. I am not about to rekindle the debate (again!) about disc brakes, but for me and the type of riding that I do, they offer the best in braking both on and off the road. I don’t race anymore, so I don’t care what the UCI think. I ride for fitness, to push myself, for enjoyment and to be sociable. At 190cms, 95kgs and living in Hong Kong, disc brakes have been a revelation. Hong Kong is either up or down, and I am not built like a mountain goat. I have experienced severe brake fade with carbon rims, and discs are absolutely worth the very small weight penalty in terms of performance. I can’t wait for Campagnolo to produce a hydraulic system. Mechanical discs are a step change from rim brakes, particularly on long steep descents, but hydraulics will move the bar even higher again. Whilst they offend the obsessive weight weenies and traditionalists, unless you race and encounter the shortfalls of UCI regulation and wheel swaps, who wouldn’t want more dependable, consistent braking in their cycling life?

    I don’t yet have a complete bike weight, but it feels and rides light. It isn’t as light as the Vamoots RSL with rim brakes that it replaced, but there is something somewhat reassuring about the stability and comfort that the bike generates. I have ridden titanium bikes for the past 25 years. I have ridden many during that time (2 Merlins, 9 Sevens, 3 Moots, 2 IF, 1 Serotta), and I have to say that my least favourite bikes have always been the lightest. My Moots RSL and my Seven Aerios (now the Axiom SLX) were both stiff and very light, but quite harsh as a result, and lacked the ride quality that I enjoy so much that keeps me coming back to titanium. This one is not heavy by any stretch of the imagination, but despite an oversized top tube and seat tube it has that buttery ride quality.

    Using ENVE tubular XC rims (which are actually their lightest rim of any sort on or off road), the wheels weigh just 1,160 grammes, they are super strong and are light where it counts, at the rim. The rims are testament to what can be achieved where there is no need for a brake track, and I am sure that as disc brakes catch hold, rim technology for the road will continue to evolve even more without the need for reinforcement at the outside of the rim. I have run Chris King hubs for years, but I have been tempted by the weight of Tune this time around. They were a custom option direct from Tune. A King/Kong mountain bike pairing coupled with a Campagnolo freehub. The hubs are appreciably lighter than the King R45s on my other bikes. I didn’t weigh them individually, but my rule of thumb is if I can feel the weight difference in my hands, it is worth it.

    The frame is of course immaculately welded as all Moots are. I had it customized with a PF30 bottom bracket, a 30.9 seat tube instead of the standard 27.2 on the stock Vamoots DR, and routed for electronic shifting and an internal battery. It is a bit of a hybrid between a Vamoots and a Vamoots RSL. It is noticeably slimmer in the rear wishbone than the Psyclo X RSL, but the rest of the tubes look a similar diameter.

    It has the new post mount brake caliper mounting, which is reckoned to be an improvement over IS. I have IS mountings on my Psyclo X, and I agree that if you want to run the size of rotor that the mount is made for (in this case 140mm front and rear), it is neater. However, running anything other than this still requires an adapter, and I am running 140mm rear and 160mm front (and might potentially move to 160mm at the back too depending on performance, requiring adapters both ends).

    I know that it has electronic shifting, disc brakes, a press fit bb, a 44mm headtube, 2cm of spacers etc. which will give the forum trolls plenty to troll about, but to me this lot are perfectly suited to my riding. So much so that my CX bike (Moots Psyclo X RSL), my winter bike (Genesis Equilibrium Disc) and my road bike (Moots Vamoots DR) are all now disc, and both Moots are identically equipped with SR EPS. Now, hurry up Campagnolo and produce some hydraulic disc brakes!

    Here’s some shots of the new bike, plus the updated final fleet. A bit dark since they were taken in the lift lobby of our apartment. Will try to get some better shots in the sunshine tomorrow.

    Frame – Moots Vamoots RD
    Fork – ENVE Tapered RD
    Aheadset – Chris King Inset 7
    Chainset – Campagnolo Super Record Ti Compact
    Bottom Bracket – Campagnolo PF BB30
    Pedals – Look Keo Carbon Ti
    Front Derailleur – Campagnolo Super Record EPS
    Rear Derailleur – Campagnolo Super Record EPS
    Shifters – Campagnolo Super Record EPS
    Brakes – Avid BB7 SL Road
    Chain – KMC X-11 SL
    Cassette – Campagnolo Super Record
    Wheels – Tune King/Kong disc hubs, ENVE XC tubular rims, Sapim CX Ray spokes, DT titanium skewers
    Tyres – Continental Competition 25mm
    Stem – Moots RSL
    Bars – Zipp Service Course SL
    Seatpost – Moots Cinch
    Saddle – Fizik Arione CX
    Bottle Cages – King Titanium
    Grips – Deda Mistral

    Frame – Moots Psyclo X RSL
    Fork – ENVE Tapered CX
    Aheadset – Chris King Inset 7
    Chainset – Campagnolo Super Record Ti Compact (46/36 Campagnolo CX Chainrings)
    Bottom Bracket – Campagnolo PF BB30
    Pedals – Shimano XTR
    Front Derailleur – Campagnolo Super Record EPS
    Rear Derailleur – Campagnolo Super Record EPS
    Shifters – Campagnolo Super Record EPS
    Brakes – Avid BB7 SL Road
    Chain – KMC X-11 SL
    Cassette – Campagnolo Super Record
    Wheels – Chris King R45 disc hubs, ENVE XC clincher rims, DT Aerolight spokes, DT titanium skewers
    Tyres – Vittoria Cyclocross XM
    Stem – Moots RSL
    Bars – Zipp Service Course SL
    Seatpost – Moots Cinch
    Saddle – Fizik Arione CX
    Bottle Cages – King Titanium
    Grips – Deda Mistral

    Frame – Genesis Equilibrium Disc
    Fork – Genesis Equilibrium Disc
    Aheadset – Chris King NoThreadset
    Chainset – Fulcrum R-Torque RS
    Bottom Bracket – Campagnolo Record
    Pedals – Look Keo Carbon CroMo
    Front Derailleur – Campagnolo Chorus
    Rear Derailleur – Campagnolo Athena
    Shifters – Campagnolo Chorus
    Brakes – Avid BB7 Road
    Chain – KMC X-11 SL
    Cassette – Campagnolo Chorus
    Wheels – Chris King R45 disc hubs, Mavic Open Pro CD rims, DT Aerolight spokes, DT titanium skewers
    Tyres – Vittoria Open Corsa CX
    Mudguards – SKS Chromoplastic
    Stem – Zipp Service Course SL
    Bars – Zipp Service Course SL
    Seatpost – Zipp Service Course SL
    Saddle – Fizik Arione CX
    Bottle Cages – King Titanium
    Grips – Deda Mistral

    So, along with the pimp’d Brompton, that’s the stable for the foreseeable future. Future proofed, reliable, beautifully made and just right for me.

    Premier Icon Sanny
    Subscriber

    Niiiiice! But you’re not future proofed. No fat bike and no 29er+ means you are two bikes light! 😀 Contemplating a Ti Warbird from Salsa or a Ti Fargo for the Frankenbike fix………….those Moots do look nice!

    clubber
    Member

    Could you provide an executive summary please? 😉

    cynic-al
    Member

    Clubber: disc brakes are good on cross bikes and light bikes are stiff and uncomfortable.

    clubber
    Member

    The rims are testament to what can be achieved where there is no need for a brake track

    Is that really true? From what we’ve seen and what a few manufacturers have said, disc rims won’t actually be much lighter because you need the sidewalls or equivalent to provide the necessary structural strength.

    clubber
    Member

    cynic-al – Member
    Clubber: disc brakes are good on cross bikes and light bikes are stiff and uncomfortable.

    Thanks Al.

    In summary, I agree about discs but not so much about light bikes all being stiff and uncomfortable.

    More fascinating is that you have enough space to keep all those in HK! 🙂

    DT78
    Member

    Why do you need a winter bike in HK? I don’t remember bad weather when I lived there, the odd monsoon and short sharp heavy showers which were over before you knew it.

    Anyway, your stable looks lovely and I am very jealous.

    theflatboy
    Member

    Wowsers – that’s a very nice set of bikes you have there!

    reggiegasket
    Member

    all my bikes, with the exception of a bmx, are now on discs. Bye bye rim brakes 😉

    The Moots look lovely. Just a shame they’ve gone with a flying disc mount instead of the tidier chainstay mount.

    cynic-al
    Member

    Oops its a road bike not cross.

    Some have been saying discs are good on road bikes since 2006…

    c_klein87
    Member

    awesome bikes! did strada build the wheels?

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    The rims are testament to what can be achieved where there is no need for a brake track

    Is that really true? From what we’ve seen and what a few manufacturers have said, disc rims won’t actually be much lighter because you need the sidewalls or equivalent to provide the necessary structural strength. [/quote]

    Mmm, agree at the lightest end of the spectrum – particularly tub rims, which are essentially a square in section anyway. I reckon we’ll see clinchers get a bit lighter, have on the MTB, you can get <290g 26″ disc rims, whilst rim brake rims never got below 350g AFAIK.

    Enve aren’t quite the lightest anyway, 280g IIRC, AX-Lightness do some for 255g, and Innolite are comparable I think. Then again you can get 250g rims with a braking surface from plenty of the Chinese manufacturers. Not as strong admittedly.

    TiRed
    Member

    Put an endcap on that cable 😉

    And I agree with your comments. I think light carbon wheels with disks is the future. I owned a Merlin titanium and loved it. always wanted that ultralight Litespeed Ghisallo. Until I rode it. Some frames can be too light.

    dirtyrider
    Member

    I’d love to think they are getting used

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    always wanted that ultralight Litespeed Ghisallo. Until I rode it. Some ti frames can be too light.

    FTFY

    The Ghisallo was a flexy mess, but there are people making carbon frames that are 30% lighter now whilst being stiffer.

    kcr
    Member

    Welcome to the future? I’ve been running discs on my work road bike since 2003, and I’m no early adopter, so they were available well before that!
    It’s just another brake option; very effective for utility applications, not quite there for racing yet, I think, but that may change.

    TiRed
    Member

    Fair point. My carbon frame is lighter, stiffer and an altogether far better ride. The Ghisallo does have something of Samuel Johnson’s dog about it though. The RSL is, however just lovely.

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    Welcome to the future? I’ve been running discs on my work road bike since 2003, and I’m no early adopter, so they were available well before that!

    Were they? Who did a proper disc brake road bike in 2003? As opposed to a hybrid.

    The RSL is, however just lovely.

    Can’t disagree!

    Who did a proper disc brake road bike in 2003?

    Lemond Poprad, perhaps?

    racefaceec90
    Member

    i’m sorry fella but this is just a blatant thread for you to show off all your lovely expensive bikes 😉

    alpin
    Member

    have Tektro disc brake on my SS/Fixie… it does the job, but can be very grabby.

    like the Genesis. are the Moots titanium?

    kcr
    Member

    2003: Airborne Carpe Diem. They were even selling a carbon disc fork.

    mrmo
    Member

    Lemond Poprad, perhaps?

    more a cross bike.

    mrmo
    Member

    Just a shame they’ve gone with a flying disc mount instead of the tidier chainstay mount.

    i ride with someone who might disagree after discovering his rear brake froze, or more specifically water got in the cable and froze

    Saw this chap going pretty quick up box hill a while back on a nice moots.

    lucien
    Member

    Hey, he’s not as quick as he once was…..

    mr frosty
    Member

    Nice bikes. Any vacancies at your place of employment ?

    Solarider = Patrick Bateman

    what hifi do you have?

    Premier Icon solarider
    Subscriber

    It’s not a Harman Kardon!

    But having 3 bikes in a Hong Kong apartment does involve covering half of the flat in plastic sheets when I bring them in covered in s#*t for the sake of my marriage.

    I like the brake mount where it is. The cable routing for a chain stay mount can look a bit ugly. Plus the dropouts on the drive side are often quite ugly as they have to match the non drive side/caliper side. Mainly aesthetic reasons I know, but I haven’t seen anything about performance being any different between chain stay and seat stay mounts.

    Cable now trimmed and capped. Schoolboy mistake!

    First serious ride out today. Lots of hills. Light up them, secure down then. I ride tubs and always had a bit of a nagging doubt on long, steep, twisty downhills about heat build up making the glue soft using rim brakes. Over here you have no choice but to use the brakes a lot. And it was raining for half the ride (see, mudguards are needed even over here – should have taken the Genesis!).

    Heard Moots and ENVE weren’t too pleased with that photo of Lance. Obviously he now can’t be seen riding Trek or SRAM, wearing Giro, Nike or Oakley. I understand from somebody better connected than me that he bought that rig himself (although he probably got decent staff discount from Mellow Johnny’s!).

    Now, where’s my chainsaw?

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Subscriber

    Very nice, can’t think of anything I’d do differently, apart from using DA di2 rather than SR eps, but only because of the feel and shape of the hoods!

    Enjoy!

    Joe
    Member

    Holy shit. That is some stable. Some $$$$$.

    Premier Icon takisawa2
    Subscriber

    Lucky man.
    Some beautiful kit there mate.
    Enjoy…. 🙂

    mattsccm
    Member

    Ti and discs is great . Just bought a Pickenflick as a road bike leaving my Cotic X as the rough stuff bike. I can see that going though as it’s only gas pipe really. It does have Campag though! I need SR the only stuff I have is late 70’s. 🙁

    kcr
    Member

    The problem with chain stay mounting is that it creates a U bend trap at the lowest point of the cable, so any water and dirt that gets into the cable outer will collect there. I came across another account of the problem mrmo describes, when I was researching a new frame, so I stuck with seat stay mounting. I’m riding to work all through the winter, and it doesn’t matter how good the cable sealing is, water is going to get in there eventually, unless you use gravity to keep it out.

    cynic-al
    Member

    Depends on cable routing – never been a fan of full length.

    reggiegasket
    Member

    A low hose loop is not an issue if you run hydraulic, which will undoubtedly happen fairly soon. Both my road bikes are hydraulic now.

    The flying rear mount isn’t as stiff as the chainstay design IME. I have one frame with a flying mount (ti) and one with a chainstay mount (carbon) and you can see/tell the flying mount flexes more. Okay, the frames are different material so it’s hardly conclusive I admit but I do think the chainstay design is superior, all in. And tidier.

    I see it a bit like IS and PM mounts on forks. There’s not much between them but PM is slightly better so over time has become the norm.

    reggiegasket
    Member

    How can you not be a fan of full length cables….?

    So you like your cables exposed to the elements so they deteriorate faster?

    cynic-al
    Member

    No, you can clean and lube them, you can’t with full length.

    I am a fair weather rider tho…

    Premier Icon jameso
    Subscriber

    ^ open under BB cable routing generally has less friction for longer in wet use, ime-fwiw etc

    OP, nice bikes, I’m impressed mainly by the ‘total cost:similarily of use of the individual bikes’ ratio there : )

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 42 total)

The topic ‘Moots Road Disc – welcome to the future!’ is closed to new replies.