There seems to be a bit of interest in making the Solaris chubby, so I thought I’d post some thoughts on my experiences as I go along. I’ve not ridden it in anger yet, so this is just spec and setup.

I’ve got a Mk1 Solaris frame that I bought second hand (from here I think). It’s been a funny “relationship”. I loved it for the first few weeks, then neglected it completely for six months (preferring to ride my full-suss). Recently I stuck a shorter stem and wider bars on and found I loved it all over again. So, I thought I’d try a chubby conversion on it. I think it might work well for winter XC riding up here.

I decided to buy the wheels from Cotic (Hope Pro 2 Evo with WTB Asym rims; 29mm rear 35mm front). Partly because it’s hard to source rims, partly because I’m lazy and partly because Cotic have done a lot of testing using the Mk1 Solaris and thought this was the best combo. So who am I to argue? I also like the fact that they aren’t too wide. If I don’t get on with the B+ feel then I’ve still got a decent set of 650B trail wheels. They’re not boost of course, so they are already obsolete, but you can’t have everything.

The wheels themselves look pretty smart, although I wasn’t sure whether to line up the WTB logo on the tyre with the one on the rim or with the valve as usual. In the end it’s not quite either 🙂

The wheels themselves seem to be well built; true and feel quite tight (although I couldn’t be bothered to measure the spoke tension).

I’d managed to pick up a pair of WTB Trailblazer tyres a few weeks back, so just bought the wheels and tubeless kit from Cotic. These came with the rim strip and tubeless valve fitted, which was nice. The tubeless valves are a bit funny though. They are black, which matches the rims nicely, but there is no thread on the upper part of the stem, which means I can’t use my screw on head from my track pump if I remove the core. Fortunately this wasn’t a problem as they were the easiest tubeless setup I’ve ever done. I put a tube in to seat one side, but I’m not even sure this was necessary. The tyre is a very snug fit on the rim.

My previous wheels were Hope Pro2 Evo with Arch Ex rims and I was running a 2.25 Hans Dampf (snakeskin, trailstar) on the front and a 2.25 Racing Ralph (snakeskin, pacestar) on the rear.

I weighed both sets of wheels and the weight difference was almost exactly the same as the difference in the quoted tyre weights. The front was 140g heavier (WTB tyre is supposed to be 130g heavier than the HD) and the rear was 340g heavier (tyre should be 350g heavier). So the wheels are pretty much the same weight and overall I’ve gained pretty much a pound in extra tyre weight.

As I say, I’ve not ridden it in anger yet. It feels fine going round the garden and up and down the road. I think it looks great too. I’m sure that part of the appeal of fat and chubby bikes is the Tonka toy looks.

Now, who thinks I should sort out that lawn, bench, house rather than go for a ride ?

You must have been neglecting it if there’s ivy growing from the handlebar.

It looks great, go and ride it now.

Interested to hear how you get on with these as I’m considering trying something similar on my Gyro (looks like they will fit from the measuring I’ve done)

Sod the lawn and go for a ride and let me know how it is !!!

Because this arrived yesterday, and I’m after doing the very same thing.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/xRXgNV]Untitled[/url] by eastham_david, on Flickr

BTW are the Hope/Arch EX wheels for sale by any chance?

Because this arrived yesterday, and I’m after doing the very same thing.

Ooh, yours is shiny too. Much better.

BTW are the Hope/Arch EX wheels for sale by any chance?

No, sorry, I’m thinking of changing the 26″ full-suss for a full-suss 29er, so I’ll keep the wheels for that.

Interested to hear how you get on with these as I’m considering trying something similar on my Gyro (looks like they will fit from the measuring I’ve done)

Interesting idea. I’ve tended to think that B+ will be best for rigid or hardtail bikes, but I’m beginning to wonder about that now. We ask a lot of our suspension. It has to deal with trail chatter, big hits, braking/cornering forces etc. In practice you probably want different rebound characteristics for those things i.e. fast for chatter, slower on bigger hits etc. Suspension designers are doing a great job, but I can see the logic in letting the tyres take care of the chatter leaving the suspension to deal with the bigger hits. It’s all conjecture for now though.

Excellent post. Am interested in this – I have a second-hand Solaris too, it’s my go-to bike. Do you live somewhere where you have real mud? I think I read that Cy said they wouldn’t deal well with that, but would be interested to see. Always on the lookout for something that can keep me moving through the winter.

Keep up the good work!

Interesting post RP.
Hope you enjoy it Sir.

Not sure it’s a route I’d go down for 2 reasons. Firstly I use mine as my only mtb now but that means some routes are a 4 mile road ride to get to the trails and I can’t see how + tyres and low pressures will make that anything other than a slog but maybe I’m wrong.
Secondly, I’ve got a bit of an n+1 itch going and I’m looking at fat bikes. Albeit using that on different trails.

Anyway keep us posted.

Mk1 Solaris chubbed here – Dually 45mm/Panaracer FatBnimble front and East on Arc 30/Tblazer rear. A bit more sluggish feeling, no pedal strikes (180 cranks too), no geometry dramas, loads of ‘cush’, riotous fun and more traction than my skills or power can make use of. And the schralping sounds……

Yes keep us updated. @Vortex nice garage 🙂

@Vortex nice garage

thanks, it’s my ‘away form the kids and Mrs’ haven. 🙂

it will be even better if I can get round to finishing that bloody café racer 🙄

Just took my MK2 solaris, which is set up with the Asym rims & Trailblazers same as yours, to Llandegla today for its post build shake down ride.

First time on a hard tail for 5 yrs (a 2008 Chameleon) and absolutely loved it. Pedalled great, rolled superb and great fun on the descents. Set a load of PRs, inc a couple on descents, which I was surprised about. Last time I was there I was on a 120mm Bandit 29er.

Trail was damp & slippy in places today, but grip on the tyres seemed pretty good, drifty in a few places, but never felt really sketchy.

Ride was actually very comfy for a HT, the compliance from the tyres is really nice, takes out the harshness, but not wallowey. Never felt heavy to ride (although it is no lightweight!), accelerates and spins upto speed similar to my 29er.

Just need to put some higher rise bars on, the front end feels too low (stack height is quite a bit less than my 29er)

This isn’t going to replace my FS for alot of the riding I do (Dark Peak rocky trails), but for local woods, White Peak & trail centres like Cannock & Llandegla it’s going to be a hoot, and will be a nice change to ride something different. Just good old good fun!

Mine is running tubeless too. Didn’t need to pre seat with a tube, just fitted the tyres and went up with a track pump.

Hope you enjoy yours as much as I did mine today.

Sorry for the crap photo, only one I have of it.

[/url]IMG_3945 by bigfoot_on_a_bike, on Flickr[/img]

That was interesting? I took the B+ Solaris up to the Moray Monster Trails. A decent amount of climbing (2,526 foot), mostly hardpack, but eroded and loose in places with some rooty sections. Most importantly; trails I know well that aren’t too challenging, so I could focus on the bike rather than on staying alive.

First, lets quash any notion that chubby tyres turn your hardtail (or rigid bike) into a full-suss. They don’t. All tyres provide a form of suspension and B+ tyres give you more of that, but it behaves differently to what we normally class as suspension. Basically you get more float and more bounce i.e. it will float over more of the trail chatter but when the bumps get too big for it to float over it bounces more. Whether you like that is very much a personal preference.

Second, while the differences are easy to detect, as is almost always the case with bikes, they are nowhere near as dramatic as some reviewers will have you believe. Some of us enjoy tinkering around with bikes, trying to find just the right trade-off to suit our needs, but at the end of the day they are all just bikes. In this case it’s a hardtail with big tyres, but not that big. People have been using 29×2.4″ tyres for ages, so going to 27.5×2.8″ (especially when it’s probably not really 2.8″) isn’t exactly revolutionary.

That said, I really liked it. There was a bit more comfort and a fair bit more grip without it feeling too sluggish.

I’m skeptical of using Strava to judge bikes. Partly because I’m more interested in fun than speed and partly because there is always that new-bike (or new wheels) enthusiasm. Basically, I’m not blinded to the experimental condition being tested so this isn’t science. However, I did set new personal records on virtually every downhill segment. The only two that weren’t technically records were exactly the same time as my previous record. Bear in mind that most of these downhill records were set on my full-suss Five. There were no records on any of the climbs though, although many of them were second best times (second to times set on the Solaris with the lighter 29er wheels). Basically, based just on one ride (i.e. big pinch of salt required) it looks as though the B+ Solaris isn’t quite as fast uphill as the 29er Solaris, but is faster both uphill and down than my 26″ Five. It’s also noticeable that the rougher the climb the closer the times got.

As I say, I wouldn’t read too much into the times though. More importantly I found it really fun. With the short stem (35mm), wide bars (740mm) and chunky wheels you could really chuck it about and it felt very stable. I’m not sure how much of that was down to the tyres and how much to the (7mm?) lower BB, but I don’t really care, it was a hoot. I also still think it looks great 🙂

EDIT: Thanks tandemonium. Your post came in while I was writing mine, but it’s an interesting read and your bike also looks great 🙂

A few more reflections on the first ride:

Although there were no records broken on the climbs, the differences were pretty small e.g. 14s slower than my best on an eighteeen and a half minute climb (around 1%). More importantly, it didn’t feel sluggish. It’s something that I’ll be watching closely as I like to climb, but so far it doesn’t seem to make the climbs too much of a chore, which was my worry.

Everyone seems to agree that the advantage of plus sized tyres is the ability to run low pressures, so it’s interesting to note that the recommended pressures printed on the side of the trailblazer tyres are 30-45psi. I wonder if anybody is using these in the recommended range? According to my track pump I was running around 15psi front and 18psi rear, which felt about right.

I experimented with running my 29er wheels at 20psi before getting these, but actually the feel is quite different. The float and grip are still there but without that soft tyre feeling and hopefully with less danger of rim strikes.

The one place where I did notice some slightly funny handling was on a fast 30mph) fire road descent. It wasn’t bad but the front seemed to move about a bit. Not sure I’d fancy these on a fast road descent!

@ononeorange: We don’t have real mud up here I’m afraid. It gets plenty greasy and sloppy in winter, but it’s peat/sand based, so doesn’t stick like the clay you get down south. I wouldn’t want to comment too much without having tried them, but looking at the (minimal) tread they don’t look as though they would shed mud that well.

I’d agree with what’s been posted above.

Quite a lot more comfort, a good amount of extra grip and possibly slightly slower climbing. Lots and lots of fun though.

I have 4 miles to get to my local trails and they roll much better than expected.

Many thanks to all of you for the details here. I’m back in love with my solaris (tallboy on the operating table) and am waiting for my 30mm rims from china so that I can join you in chubster land. Wider bars and ghetto 1×10 already make it more fun than it was.

How much for the ProII/Asym wheel set from Cotic?

£599 for the wheelset, including tyres.

Wondering if a pair of 650b Arch rims would work, whther they would be too narrow (just because I have a pair spare at the moment).

Interesting to hear that you’ve had similar experiences to me, roverpig. I’d ridden mine enough now to see that any speed difference on the climbs is irrelevant (in fact, I’ve been faster but I probably am getting a little fitter but swapping to my 29er wheels didn’t make me faster)

Andy, 25mm internal is about as narrow as you’d want I reckon. Whole thread on it here:

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/650b-and-other-plus-sizes-if-you-like-rim-tyre-frame-fork-combinations

Interesting to hear that you’ve had similar experiences to me, roverpig. I’d ridden mine enough now to see that any speed difference on the climbs is irrelevant

It’s only one ride, but what interested me with the climbs is that they didn’t feel tough. I was deliberately trying not to over do it on the climbs. I did a demo on an Orange Gyro a few years back and I think I was so keen to convince myself that this was the one that I flew up the first climb (setting a time that it took me a year and a much lighter bike to match!) but then suffered like a dog on the next climb and had to cut the ride short as I couldn’t face the next one! So, this time I was taking it steady. Still working hard on the climbs of course, but trying not to kill myself. It obviously worked as I threw in an extra loop at the end that I don’t often do, just for fun.

£600 for a set of wheels & tyres makes me wince

Mine cost a lot less than that – £75 hubs off ebay, £60 for the rims (though only 25mm internal), £25 for the spokes, £90 (IIRC) for the tyres

£600 will get you a ProII LB wheel build. That’s with 35 or 38mm carbon rims.

This thread also interests me. I’ve got a Stanton Sherpa, and fancy putting some Hope Enduro wheels with the Trailblazer tyres on (as Dan Stanton has done). Those Cotic wheels seem expensive, too expensive to try, and my thinking of getting the Hope wheels, is that they can be used with normal tyres as and when I buy a 650b bike.

Also regarding tire pressures. I run my 29er’s at about 20-25psi (2.25 Racing Ralfs on Arch EX rims), which feels pretty forgiving as it is, but with the ability to still go pretty fast – and wonder how 2.8 tyres at lower pressure would work for me – pity there is not the ability to rent a wheelset for the day!

Nick

£600 includes the tyres (and the tubeless kit) though. The tyres are around £125 on their own! But, no, it’s never cheap to jump on a bandwagon early 🙂

my thinking of getting the Hope wheels, is that they can be used with normal tyres as and when I buy a 650b bike

The Asym rims are only 29mm internal at the rear and 35mm at the front, so should work just fine as a “normal” 650B set. But the way things are going that 650B bike you buy in future will use Boost spacing, so whatever you buy now wont fit. Gotta love the bike industry.

They will fit, you’ll just need adaptors and maybe your wheel redishing

Kind of defeats the object of the asym rims, but I take your point.

I think my bill was sub or low 200 at the lbs for rebuilding my 29″ rims with my lb 38mm rims, Inc tyres/tubes/spokes/valves.

Given I’d just creased my arch ex rim I was in for a rim and rebuild bill anyway.

I think 38mm rim is pretty narrow. Up front it could do with being a touch wider to get a more consistent tyre profile (i don’t think the rev forks would take a Hugo rim, and the Hugo rim is pretty weighty too).

I though the tyres were a lot cheaper than that. Are these not them?

http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/77470/WTB_Trail_Blazer_TCS_Light_Fast_Rolling_275_Inch_Folding_Tyre_466223?gclid=CK-7iMr_h8gCFSsKwwodbJYIkQ

Not cheap, but £80 rather than £120.

Those are the ones – I got mine from Charlie though for niche authenticity 😉

Yes, sorry, my mistake. I thought RRP was £60 on these for some reason. Should have checked before posting though.

Andy, 25mm internal is about as narrow as you’d want I reckon. Whole thread on it here:

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/650b-and-other-plus-sizes-if-you-like-rim-tyre-frame-fork-combinations

Thanks Nemesis, I’d not come across that thread or seen it linked 😉 😀

😉

Maybe I should heve put my ramblings in that other thread 🙂 But it looks more like a thread for “what will work” and with this being the stock Cotic setup I guess it’s kind of a given that it will work. That’s my excuse anyway 🙂

Many thanks to all of you for the details here. I’m back in love with my solaris (tallboy on the operating table) and am waiting for my 30mm rims from china so that I can join you in chubster land. Wider bars and ghetto 1×10 already make it more fun than it was.

What length forks are you running? I’ve got a hunch that chubby works better with 120mm forks, but I don’t know anybody who has tried it with a 100mm fork for comparison.

Apology accepted 😉

I’ve used 100mm forks with my trailblazers on my Lurcher (to see if it’d work ok – doesn’t really fit in the back without rubbing unfortunately). Frankly it was crazy – on one particular rocky DH, I was putting the brakes on because I was going plentyfastenoughthankyouverymuch – the bike certainly wasn’t close to its limit.

Apology accepted

Thanks 🙂

Yes, it does seem to carry speed over rough ground remarkably well. I thought I was going to lose it a few times going too fast into bends (on sections where I wouldn’t normally brake), but then realised it had the grip to get round the bend as well, so all was good!

By the way, has anybody else noticed an effect on plus tyres on the amount of travel you use? I’d normally bottom my 120mm Revs out at least once on that route, but despite all those personal records on the downhill bits I still only used around 100 of the 120mm available. I’m not sure what to do about that. Maybe it will sort itself out on more rocky trails.

Didn’t notice that on mine – Similar travel just going faster.

Thanks. Maybe it’s time to service those forks then 🙂