I said I wouldn’t come back to post more – yet here I am – which perhaps shows my lack of strength of character.

Many of the posts here have been really useful to me. Some which are more dogmatic (“leave her now – you only get one life” or “I’ve never had sex with anyone else so you are evil if you do “) are less helpful and perhaps show lack of understanding of the complexity of real life. A bit Fundamentalist really.

Some more information.

My wife probably did not have enough lovers before she met me. I’d done alright and had fun. I’ve always assumed that I must have been doing something wrong with her and that I was to blame for her not being interested but it would get better rather than worse. She hasn’t been really interested for all our marriage and before it, not just since having kids. I have suggested counselling, sex therapy, toys etc etc. I don’t believe there has been someone else for all that time as we have moved around a lot. She says she isn’t gay and has not ever been abused, but just that sex isn’t that interesting or important to her – and to other people she has talked to.

I don’t want to make love to someone who is not enjoying it. But I know other people who didn’t enjoy sex till they met the right person much later in life. Maybe I am not the right person – but we have kids – and a life together that I value a lot. So I take the blame for being comfortable with her and accepting this situation when it was a bit better in our early days.

To be honest, if she could take a lover who got her to understand what it was about, and that then attitude transferred to me, it might be the best and fairest situation. I don’t think that is going to happen. I think we are doomed to another 30 years of companionship and little or no sex. But also few hugs and little spontaneous affection.

I don’t want to do is hurt the kids by disappearing the minute they are 18. I certainly don’t want to leave now. I’ve been that child. Perhaps I do need to try again to have the conversation which talks about options. eg,

1) Marriage breaks up (bad for both of us and for the kids – given we are happy and functional most of the time)
2) Wife accepts my needs and allows me to have another sexual/intimacy outlet.
3) Wife accepts the need to talk and do something about sex/intimacy together. But how would she feel about this with the threat of 2) as a possibility? Not exactly encouraging trust and intimacy is it?

My coward’s plan has been

4) Try and be the best husband I can be, except in having a secret friend who is an emotional and sexual outlet – who also needs that in her life at the moment.

But this does my head in. I am not a natural at deceit. And how do you force people to communicate when they don’t want to?

Thanks for the honesty from everyone

In the spirit of your last post I will apologise if I appeared harsher than warrented.

I do very strongly believe honesty and trust is the only way forward. Its possible you can regain this without telling her about the affair but think about crikeys post and what Druidh said. IMO the affair must stop now if you want to save the marriage or you must leave.

It might be you need to give your wife an ultimatum. “help me look for a solution or I will leave” You have to be clear you are not prejudging outcomes and you are not blaming her.

Especially if you are not a natural at deceit your wife will know something is going on and it will eat you up inside anyway.

Good luck.

Perhaps I do need to try again to have the conversation which talks about options. eg,

1) Marriage breaks up (bad for both of us and for the kids – given we are happy and functional most of the time)
2) Wife accepts my needs and allows me to have another sexual/intimacy outlet.
3) Wife accepts the need to talk and do something about sex/intimacy together. But how would she feel about this with the threat of 2) as a possibility? Not exactly encouraging trust and intimacy is it?

I believe it would be best to have a conversation that talks about options. But I wouldn’t bring option 2 into it except as a last resort (in fact, for me not even then!). In asking your wife to visit Relate with you (all this tied in with my previous post which regards counselling as not just the best option, but in fact as a really positive choice) I would try to explain how hard you are finding having a relationship without physical intimacy. And that’s it. No thoughts of what might help this (beyond counselling), no options of ‘don’t ask don’t tell lovers, just an (or possibly a number before she does agree) open and frank talk by you of how hard you find the loss of intimacy in the relationship. Don’t make it about her “since you don’t want sex”. And have investigated where the nearest counselling is and what their availability is before each of these conversations, so if she asks questions about taking it forward you have answers ready.

Here’s the link. Relate Sex-Therapy. Before talking with your wife read the common problems (particularly this one) and the case study. Maybe after having broached the idea with your wife once or twice, tell her you’ve looked at the website and would like her, in her own time and space, to read the either of the two above pages. It may be that she feels the loss of intimacy as well, would also like to change the relationship in a good way, but can’t herself see how to make that change.

Blah blah, lots of words, not that much order – up too late and then too early! Good luck.

nice TJ I am sorry but let me reiterate my points again Well done that helped clear up what you really thought again.

What markie says i think you want to save the marriage so at least try. You need to discuss this in a forceful but supportive way.
Dont mention 2 EVER – it would need to be her suggestion IMHO-people tend to not at well to blackmail – come to counselling or I will get a comfort shag is neithe persuassive, loving or supportive

Best of luck

I still feel that your relationship is doomed, like you say you want a normal good sex life and your wife doesn’t.
You having an affair should confirm to you that you need intimacy.

Wether it ends now, in 2 years time or when the kids leave home it will end.

I too was in a loveless sexless relationship, i ended it and have remarried and couldn’t be happier, it’s simply the best thing i have ever done.

I still say if you want out do it, life is far to short.

Sorry if this sounds harsh.

I have to say, it seems far too many people on here have had/are having a similar experience with regards to loveless and sexless relationships.

Are all mtb’ers so obsessed that we’re crap shags or what? 😥

Option 2 isn’t a possibility though is it, it’s the current reality. Talking hypothetically about something that’s happening now is likely to make you feel more awkward rather than less. If you start talking you’ll tell all, you’ve told us, you’ll tell her, I think you feel the need to tell her and will – we’ll see – do keep posting.

Perhaps I’ve known a non-representative sample of women but IME they fear and resent emotional involvement with another woman more than sex. Despite the dire warning of one above poster, using prostitutes is more likely to be tolerated than you falling in love with and having good sex with another woman.

Having had sex with another woman (or man if I felt so inclined) I’d tell my wife before having sex with her again. I promised her as much when we first met as in a previous relationship the first I knew of my girlfriend’s other life was catching an STD – fortunately of a type easily treated with antibiotics. I’d then live with the consequences of telling her, something I’ve always found easier than living a lie.

Going even further back into my own experience I realised my then steady girlfriend was seeing another guy. I lived with it quite happily and never confronted her. We amicably went our separate ways years later for other reasons and she never did know I knew. I could go on but not without another pseudo.

She knows your sex life is an issue, if she kicks you out when she learns you’re having (have had) an affair it will be the excuse she needed not the reason.

Apparently Kim Cattrall was like this until she met her husband that was a theapist, and then she enjoyed sex so much she wrote a book on it. They are not together anymore…

Are all mtb’ers so obsessed that we’re crap shags or what?

From what I see here, there are a few who are quite happy to keep themselves happy in that department, if ou know what I mean. 😉

Update – if anyone is interested…

looks like we are planning a timetable towards when I am with my lover rather than my wife, and for the rest of our lives, but choosing a time which is the least academically damaging for my kids. Nothing can protect them from all the emotional effects 🙁

sometimes 2 people meet and they are just fated to be together… Perhaps we should have met 20 years ago – but I would hate to have not had my children who I love intensely. But this was not just about sex in the end – but about intimacy and connection and love.

It isn’t going to be easy – and was never going to be whether I stayed or went. For any of us.

Thanks to everyone (including TJ – and I really do mean that) who contributed to this thread before.

“the least academically damaging for my kids”

just do it now, and quickly

Missed this first time round but would like to wish desperategit good luck and I hope you (and your ‘ex’) find happiness in the future as you sound like a decent chap.

ps. couldn’t have offered much input anyway as I’m single (yet again) and intend to remain that way for the forseeable 😉

It must be a relief that you’ve made a decision but there is never going to be a good time for your children. Mine are adults and that didn’t make it any easier, even though there was nobody else involved.

iDave certainly talks sense – don’t drag it out.

Good luck for the future.

So does this mean you are getting divorced?

Just seen this thread. Hope I’m not too late but you should have taken a 3rd lover just in case the “love” you think you feel with your lover is just being c**t struck. HTH.

I hope it goes well for you, and that the dust eventually settles so that everyone involved can see more clearly than at present. It will change you, and will change the way that you think about yourself and the world around you.

Good luck..

Update – if anyone is interested…

looks like we are planning a timetable towards when I am with my lover rather than my wife, and for the rest of our lives, but choosing a time which is the least academically damaging for my kids. Nothing can protect them from all the emotional effects

sometimes 2 people meet and they are just fated to be together… Perhaps we should have met 20 years ago – but I would hate to have not had my children who I love intensely. But this was not just about sex in the end – but about intimacy and connection and love.

It isn’t going to be easy – and was never going to be whether I stayed or went. For any of us.

Thanks to everyone (including TJ – and I really do mean that) who contributed to this thread before.

You need to think really, really hard about this. A month ago you were talking about your girlfriend on a ‘friends with benefits’ basis. Now you’re looking to upset the family apple cart and move in with her.

Sure, we all think we know what we want, but you really need to stop to consider what you’re going to miss. And even if you think it’ll have absolutely no benefit whatsoever, try Relate. Even if you end up splitting with your wife, the counselling will at least force the two of you to confront the fact that you’re no longer suited to each other, and that a split’s the best idea.

You’ve been with your wife for 15 years or so? D’you not think the marriage deserves a bit more working at, rather than unilaterally deciding to walk out.

Well this has been an interesting thread.
OP you seem like a decent bloke, you realised something has been missing in your relationship for a number of years and tried to work through it with the best intentions for you, your wife and your kids… that should be applauded and celebrated..
You’ve realised this isn’t the best option for You in the long run, you’ve tried another route with your new partner and that route has lead to your realisation that “family life at home” isn’t all that rosy, well done, that ought to be celebrated too. You’ve needed this time with your new partner to realise the deficiencies in your “family life” at home and come to a conclusion which despite being traumatic for you, your family and now your new partner (for this will affect her too don’t forget) that the most decent and honest thing you can do is separate from your wife.
You must not forget that separating from your wife means separating form your kids, they still need and will want you as their father and you must honour that till the end. Your new partner will have to live and respect that too and she’s already taken that emotional barrier down by accepting you as her new partner, that too should he celebrated.
You should not feel guilt, though this is perfectly natural, you must not feel regret either, you still love and respect your family, but now in a different way. Your actions too (unless I’ve read them wrong) seem to have been taken very quickly (1 mth or so No??) which to me seems like you’ve been thinking about your family situation for some time and needed a catalyst to feed the realisation. You’ve now made that choice.
You are a brave man. You are to be applauded on your most honourable actions for both your new partner and your family

“We” are planning, does that include your wife? Or is she still oblivious?

Fate, touching wood and not walking under ladders are nonsense.

least academically damaging for my kids

Mum and dad split the Christmas as I was going into my ‘o’level year at school – they had talked about waiting until i’d got through school but mum ultimately decided she could not put up with the ‘act’ of being together and actually walked on Christmas eve – think that gives an accurate measure of just how things were between them. though neither of them was blameless in contributing to the split. My brother is 2 years younger so the planned split would not (mmm…) affected his final year.
Hurt like hell but, i’d rather they’d done it then than learn later that they’d waited – having said all that – mum and dad had obviously talked about this – seems your’s is a unilateral decision?

and for the rest of our lives

Really – is not that the promise you made your wife all those years ago?
Sorry to be harsh but, to be crude, sounds like your speaking in the seconds after sex – all warm and aglow, just like I guess you were those years ago with your g/f > fiance > wife??
That said though – mum settled with, and is still with the guy who ‘comforted her’ after the split – we’re talking over 25 years now. Dad finally settled and was with his partner for 23 years or so…

Wouldn’t it be ironic to have turned your life upside down only to get dumped by the new ‘partner’? If she is such a catch why is she single and mixed up with a married man?

I haven’t read all the replies, but it seems her interest and motivation in all this has been overlooked and is central to the whole debate!

I sincerely hope this all goes well for you, but be careful of pinning all your hopes on this ‘unknown quantity’ who could turn out to be more unstable than you ever imagined!

or even have a dual identity? who knows? 😉

never make promises when you’re happy or threats when you’re angry

Only read the OP, so sorry if this has been said already, but when kids are in the mix then you have different priorities and responsibilities. Getting a regular leg over should be further down the list than your children and their stability.

That’s my two-penneth anyway. I might read the thread now… 😀

I’m finding this hard to believe, that some people are almost applauding this fella for ‘trying to fix it’ by sleeping with someone else? Jeez.

I can’t imagine what it would be like to be cheated on or to do the same to someone else, absolutely disgraceful.

I can easily see why you were canonised colin. Was it Benedict or the previous incumbent?

Anyway… you missed a trick there. You could at least have added a bit about burning in hell or something. Frankly, your letting the side down

Hallelujah brother

I haven’t read through the whole thread, but I hope that this will give you some hope.

I was in a very similar situation to yours, except that it sounds like my marriage had moved a bit further down the path towards disintegration, the path which I suspect yours was on too. My ex and I ended up disliking each other, my wife was pretty vile to me, and I was certainly not a good husband to her, I was disengaged, dismissive and avoided spending time with her as much as I could (using cycling as an excuse to be away from our unhappy home). Just over 3 years ago I got closer to and then developed a relationship with a woman I had known for over 10 years. Last month my new partner and I moved in together and love our new life together, my ex is so much happier than when we were together, and crucially my daughter has 2 happy homes, rather than 1 miserable one.

You will undoubtedly go through some awful, awful times in the coming months and years, although it’s important to remember that they’ll probably be much less awful than the times your wife is going to go through. Do realise that all the strain, opprobrium and general crap coming your way will put a huge stress on your new relationship, I think a look at some of the more simplistic, sanctimonious posts on here will give you a bit of the flavour of what might come. You sound like a level-headed sort, and smug self-justification doesn’t seem to be your style, so keep that attitude, and keep the courage of your convictions.

Of course every situation is different, so here’s hoping for the best outcome for you, your new partner, your wife and your kids.

HughStew – he says he likes his wife in the OP, so sounds different to your situation.

EDIT – just read more and realise this is a month old thread. Either way, hope it all ends well and happily for all concerned.

Well I didn’t dislike her when I married her! And while I wouldn’t say I particularly like her now, we get on OK, and I can once again see that I wasn’t insane to marry her.

What I meant is that the build up of frustration and resentment can corrode a marriage, that’s what heppened in my case. Of course all situations are different but I suspect that once OP saw a chance of happiness elsewhere that his marriage is not likely to survive.

On a slight tangent……..lots of recommendations for going to Relate ^^.

I have yet to find anyone I know personally who have found them to be any help at all in saving relationships. For several it has merely highlighted and brought incompatibilty to the fore, Their main function seems to be to act as mediator and ensure a more amicable separation!

Purely my limited experience (1/2 dozen couples) and observation of course 8)

A ‘lateral’ perspective:
don’t you think that persons involved in affairs like this are a bit like bank robbers, in that you only ever hear of the ones who get caught! All stats seem to point to the divorces, heartbreak, etc. But there could be ten times as many people having long and happy ‘situations’ just like this one. When you think about it that is most probably the case!

I am a firm believer in ‘following your heart’ but of course take the time to think things through. You will find the tug of love is stronger in one direction than it is in the other and that is probably the direction you should take.

Desperategit, why ask the opinion of people on a forum about this instead of following your heart? if you haven’t already, do it now, pick up the phone, send that text, or email, and take your chance at happiness. 😉

I have yet to find anyone I know personally who have found them to be any help at all in saving relationships.

I’m still married. Were it not for Relate (other counselling services are available) I wouldn’t be.

Apart from the Gay helpline bit, which was funny but a bit non-PC, GRF is talking a lot of sense…

have you thought about just she ant in to sex that much.. its not law to like it.

Every woman is ‘in’ to sex if it’s presented correctly as backed by love and emotion.

You’ve read one too many Mills and Boon.

Every woman is ‘in’ to sex if it’s presented correctly as backed by love and emotion.

what about asexuals, they dont like sex at all. many of them are female

what about asexuals, they dont like sex at all

It’s a sad state of affairs when you can shag yourself but don’t enjoy it.

Except that GRF is generalising and I’ve yet to meet a woman to match his sterotype. However I can think of at least one that likes what he says they should dislike and another that dislikes the things his stereotype likes. We don’t all like the same thing. Do we? And women don’t all like the same thing.

What I can say is that some women have made me tick and others haven’t. I’m certain I’ve made some women tick and equally certain I’ve done nothing for others. Now from those statement you can make four categories and there’s only one that results in any hope of a working relationship.

what about asexuals, they dont like sex at all

It’s a sad state of affairs when you can shag yourself but don’t enjoy it.

there not snails 🙂 they have no sex drive at all. none.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asexuality

It’s a sad state of affairs when you can shag yourself but don’t enjoy it.

My boss is a miserable wan-ker, is that what you meant?

It’s a sad state of affairs when you can shag yourself but don’t enjoy it.
My boss is a miserable wan-ker, is that what you meant?

does ur boss leave a slime trail?