Missing Malaysian Aircraft – is it possible…

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  • Missing Malaysian Aircraft – is it possible…
  • sharkbait
    Member

    After 3hrs of searching they can’t find the ‘debris’ in the satellite photo’s.
    I’m going to take this a good thing because, unless I’m very much mistaken, if the plane had come down in that area with enough force to break up there would be a load of smaller floating bits that should be fairly easy to spot.

    bencooper
    Member

    The pictures are 4 days old, the debris will have drifted or maybe sunk, and they’re trying to search a large area in bad weather – I think it’s too early to say anything about whether this is the aircraft or not.

    toys19
    Member

    the whole debris sighting thing is bollocks.
    Eg look at this image on tomnod http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/mh370_indian_ocean/map/86212

    there is a thing about 20odd metres, if you look around there are bloody millions like this.

    wobbliscott
    Member

    Airbus tail fins use carbon fibre structural elements but Boeing ones don’t (especially the 777 of the Malaysian airlines vintage) so are less likely to float (I am assuming that carbon fibre is buoyant). Wings won’t float, they’re pretty sturdily built with a lot of heavy mechanisms, hydraulic actuators and gearboxes for the flaps and other moving surfaces attached. Fuel is stored in tail fins on large aircraft, mainly for trimming purposes rather than extra range.

    misinformer
    Member

    I am assuming that carbon fibre is buoyant

    What isn’t bouyant if it’s full of air 🙄

    wobbliscott
    Member

    Depends on the volume of water displaced by the object vs. it’s weight. My dive cylinders didn’t float too well 😉

    CountZero
    Member

    All those high tech knowledge etc from all over the world and they cannot even find the plane flown by two pilots from a developing country.

    Needle, say hello to haystack…

    There’s an enormous amount of absolutely bugger-all down there

    misinformer – Member
    I am assuming that carbon fibre is buoyant
    What isn’t bouyant if it’s full of air

    Carbonfibre isn’t full of air, as that would compromise the structural integrity. However, the overall structure will have voids in, just like an aluminium airframe, but they won’t be airtight, there may well be cables and ducting passing through.

    Premier Icon crazy-legs
    Subscriber

    There’s an enormous amount of absolutely bugger-all down there

    Assuming for a moment that it is the plane and it was intentionally flown to the limit of its fuel then ditched/crashed, someone went to a lot of effort to ensure that it would be as difficult as possible to ever find…

    Really strange case, I’d be fascinated to know the full story behind it.

    rkk01
    Member

    The Malaysian authorities have come in for an awful lot of criticism, but what strikes me is the relative lack of support from the countries with huge intelligence gathering capabilities….

    Obama was able to watch a live feed of the Abbotabad raid, and even back in the 80s military satellites were reckoned to be capable of identifying a golf ball on a green…

    … Yet, with the exception of the Chinese data, everything has been “attributable” to civvy systems. Now, I understand the need to protect “capability”, but if there was military intel at play in the background, why weren’t the Aussie Orions prowling the Southern Ocean a week ago ???

    (Like the ‘wegian freighter….)

    andyl
    Member

    why weren’t the Aussie Orions prowling the Southern Ocean a week ago ???

    A week ago they were looking in the wrong place. And a much smaller area.

    I do find the lack of tracking from the big countries very odd. But maybe they are worried that they should have been able to track it but havent.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    I think part of the problem is that the billions of dollars worth of satellites buzzing around the world are focussed on places like Korea, Ukraine, Syria, Afgahnistan even Cuba etc

    I cant think of many places less likely to be covered than the arse end of the indian ocean

    zokes
    Member

    http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/5007183?utm_hp_ref=uk

    Seems Australia’s Prime Moron was trying to bury corrupt ministers in the news, rather than adding anything useful with his “we’ve found it” statement of the other day.

    As one of the posters from the mostly unreported 100,000-strong protest against this government said on their banner: “resign, dickhead”

    Premier Icon budgierider67
    Subscriber

    Depends on the volume of water displaced by the object vs. it’s weight. My dive cylinders didn’t float too well

    The cylinders will float just fine with air at atmospheric pressure in them rather that much greater volume pressurised air.

    Premier Icon budgierider67
    Subscriber

    Aluminium rather than steel I should clarify.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    Aircraft pieces have sometimes been found floating for days after a sea crash. Peter Marosszeky, an aviation expert at the University of New South Wales, said the wing could remain buoyant for weeks if fuel tanks inside it were empty and had not filled with water.

    Other experts said that if the aircraft breaks into pieces, normally only items such as seats and luggage would remain floating.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/best-lead-in-plane-search-2-objects-seen-in-sea/2014/03/20/caf8844e-b092-11e3-b8b3-44b1d1cd4c1f_story.html?tid=pm_pop

    butcher
    Member

    Needle, say hello to haystack…

    I’ve not kept up with this fully during the past few days, but in that map, is that where the plane is currently estimated to be?

    I know it was said to have turned off and headed on a new trajectory (possibly heading for somewhere to attempt to land..?), but thousands of miles in the complete opposite direction, in the middle of the ocean??

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    the location is at the end of its fuel range,(and the direction was indicated by an automated satelite signal that couldve put it there or on the same trajectory but northward) in theory it couldve been left on autopilot…..

    Premier Icon JoeG
    Subscriber

    This really put the scale of the search into perspective for me

    or this

    zokes
    Member

    I really doubt they’ll find it in the States, unless it’s down the back of someone’s fridge.

    rkk01
    Member

    I think part of the problem is that the billions of dollars worth of satellites buzzing around the world are focussed on places like Korea, Ukraine, Syria, Afgahnistan even Cuba etc
    I cant think of many places less likely to be covered than the arse end of the indian ocean

    Military sats don’t work that way – their orbits are arranged so that they sweep the entire globe. With enough of them, you get the full time coverage of the targets / sensitive areas you want to look at.

    Comms sats are totally different – they sit in a geostationary orbit above the equator, always in the same place. That’s how the northern and southern search arcs have been defined – radii from the geostationary satellite that was receiving the aircraft’s data comms

    paulosoxo
    Member

    Less of this fact based opinion.

    bencooper
    Member

    Military sats don’t work that way – their orbits are arranged so that they sweep the entire globe. With enough of them, you get the full time coverage of the targets / sensitive areas you want to look at.

    I’m not an expert on military satellite orbits, but I doubt many of them are in high polar orbits – there’s not much for them to look at that way and their time over more interesting targets would be limited. Most of them are in less inclined lower orbits, or even in eccentric orbits that allow a low pass over one area of interest.

    rkk01
    Member

    Admittedly, when I was studying this sort of stuff the north polar region was the front line in the Cold War… !

    konabunny
    Member

    Obama was able to watch a live feed of the Abbotabad raid.

    Obama was able to choose the time and place of the event he wanted to watch! If it were publicly known in advance where and when the plane was going to crash, it would have been easy to arrange for satellite/drone coverage.

    bencooper
    Member

    Admittedly, when I was studying this sort of stuff the north polar region was the front line in the Cold War… !

    You’d probably still want to have an inclined orbit – the problem with polar orbits is they pass over the poles every orbit, but they only pass over a particular point on the earth once every 10, 20, 30 orbits. You end up with lots of pictures of ice for every one picture of something interesting, and it takes ages to get around to a particular place you want to photograph.

    Great for longer-term surveying, not so good for keeping an eye on specific things.

    dirtyrider
    Member

    families told via text?

    nice touch from the malaysians

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26716572

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    refined? satelite data says it flew south

    nice touch from the malaysians

    been involved in serious/fatal incidents and given death messages much? I assume they tried to balance telling each of the families “personally” with getting the news out in a press conference before it leaked. One of the reports mentions phone calls, but if someone doesnt answer what do they do? Theyve been criticised for not sharing information so are in a lose-lose situation; if they’d not managed to reach some of the families before the conference there would be cries of “we only found out on the news, nice touch”.

    Premier Icon imnotverygood
    Subscriber

    & TBH this news is not much of a surprise, shocking though it must be for the families.

    Have they actually found anything yet or have they just gone “we’ve no idea where it is = everyones dead”.

    bencooper
    Member

    More detailed analysis of the Intelsat pings, apparently, allowed them to rule out the northern arc.

    Premier Icon somouk
    Subscriber

    Sky News are running that the plane has been confirmed to have crashed into the sea by Australia.

    mrchrispy
    Member

    I reckon it was shotdown and they spent the last 2 weeks cleaning up wreckage and sailing all the bits down to the southern Indian Ocean so they can be ‘found’

    I think you’ll agree that its the only logical solution.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    theyve used a new technique to analyse the inmarsat satelite data

    Based on their new analysis, Inmarsat and the AAIB have concluded that MH370 flew along the southern corridor, and that its last position was in the middle of the Indian Ocean, west of Perth.

    Premier Icon somouk
    Subscriber

    I reckon it was shotdown and they spent the last 2 weeks cleaning up wreckage and sailing all the bits down to the southern Indian Ocean so they can be ‘found’

    It was probably shot down over the ocean by something from the American base down there.

    mrblobby
    Member

    theyve used a new technique to analyse the inmarsat satelite data

    Sounds interesting. Any links to new info?

    Premier Icon bigjim
    Subscriber

    Sounds interesting. Any links to new info?

    brief description on bbc news. They used doppler shift in the satellite signals to locate origin. Sounds pretty next level

    So my comment above remains. They’ve no idea where it is/have no evidence of where it is = everyone dead.

    I believe the everyone dead bit but I’m interested to see where this great big airplane actually went and where the flotsam etc is if it fell out the sky over the sea.

    Premier Icon crazy-legs
    Subscriber

    I believe the everyone dead bit but I’m interested to see where this great big airplane actually went and where the flotsam etc is if it fell out the sky over the sea.

    The great big airplane went into a much bigger sea. Amazing they’ve found it at all TBH. As someone posted above, it’s a proper needle/haystack scenario. There’s an awful lot of nothing down there…

    Bear in mind it took nearly 2 years to find the black box from Air France 447 and they knew where to look for that!

    pjt201
    Member

    somouk – Member

    It was probably shot down over the ocean by something from the American base down there.

    Do you mean the antenna in Exmouth – pretty sure it’s now run by contractors not the military (at least it was when I was down that way last year)

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