Minimum wage could be frozen

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  • Minimum wage could be frozen
  • Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    There is a lot of luck in being successful, for every Richard Branson, there are plenty of people with as much determination who didn’t make it. Every closed down small shop is someone’s broken dream and probably most of their life savings down the drain….

    Premier Icon Lifer
    Subscriber

    Absolutely aracer.

    Now I understand why he chose his username.

    Tom B
    Member

    Haha Ernie I was just thinking the same thing!

    Has he called anyone a pleb yet? 🙂

    mudshark
    Member

    Well unless I have seriously misunderstood the gist of this thread, I believe that the suggestion is an increase in the minimum wage.

    But that apparently causes harm for charities whilst still alloying the evil that are Tesco and McDonalds to have massive profits whilst just paying market rate for salaries.

    piemonster
    Member

    Think you will find that most successful business people are successful not because of luck but because they have the desire to work hard, work smart, well past the 9-5 and because they don’t expect to be spoon fed stuff on a plate.

    Well you’ll work harder
    With a gun in your back
    For a bowl of rice a day

    B*gg*r all percent of b*gg*r all is stil b*gg*r all.

    Solo
    Member

    I guess my real issue is with CEO and share holders who keep their boot on the throat of the pay scales for employees, in order to max-out profits. Frankly, were I CEO, whatever. I’d skim £5 Million off the top of £100 million profit and get even the lowest paid employee onto a reasonable wage.
    *no prizes for pointing out that behaviour such as this would see me ejected from my position at the AGM*

    Wasn’t google in the news recently for sitting on loads of cash. Not returning it to share holders ?.

    Of course, cruising down the isles of your office, throwing cash at employees has to be tempered against the larger picture wrt inflation, etc. But when I hear that people are still earning less than £8 per hour, while working for a company that makes £2 Billion profit. I have to wonder about the morals at those people responsible for that.
    And no, its not the fault of any government, imo, but rather a gross example of the greed which corrupts those at the top.
    Absolute power, etc, etc.

    mudshark
    Member

    Yeah but that’s the point – it’s the shareholders who decide not the management as such. If management can put forward a reasoned justification for paying more than the market rate then maybe the shareholders will go for it. So really we’re reliant on the law – and companies obeying the law. As most shares are held by institutions who have to do the best for their stakeholders there’s never going to be any altruism here.

    clubber
    Member

    I guess it’d be impossible to administer but maybe a sliding scale of minimum wage – smaller businesses (that IME genuinely do struggle at times with paying minimum wage) one level, bigger companies at a different (sliding scale) value.

    Though maybe that’d just skew the market to make everyone want to work at the big companies.

    Solo
    Member

    there’s never going to be any altruism here.

    Agreed. Its not a Gov issue, it’s the greed of people.
    Now, let us all worship at the alter of Greed.

    The best way to drive up wages is to have full employment. The best way to drive down wages is to have mass unemployment.

    Solo
    Member

    The best way to drive up wages is to have full employment. The best way to drive down wages is to have mass unemployment.

    Sounds like you’re describing market forces to me……
    😉

    nick1962
    Member

    Why pay more when the rest of the tax paying population subsidises them to make a profit,

    Isn’t the vast majority of tax in the UK paid by the wealthy and big business?

    rebel12
    Member

    binners – Member

    Think you will find that most successful business people are successful not because of luck but because they have the desire to work hard, work smart, well past the 9-5 and because they don’t expect to be spoon fed stuff on a plate.

    So what your saying is that everyone who isn’t successful is basically a layabout, and its all their own fault? For their failure to grasp one of the plentiful opportunities for self-advancement in our utopian meritocracy?

    No I’m not saying that, just that for most people in the UK the opportunities are there if you really want it. If you don’t then fine but please don’t whinge at those who have taken these opportunties, provide jobs for others (regardless whether minimum wage or not), and now as a result earn more than you do.

    Many people if you ask them would want to be rich – some choose to work hard and take risks to get there, some choose to work hard but are content to work for someone else – making their company owners rich, a few are born with it, others want to be rich but decide to play the lottery and watch daytime telly instead.

    Different courses for different horses, and before you ask, no I am not IDS or rich – but I don’t resent those that have achieved this through hard work if that’s what they want.

    just that for most people in the UK the opportunities are there if you really want it

    you need to get out more and open your eyes

    big_n_daft
    Member

    The best way to drive up wages is to have full employment. The best way to drive down wages is to have mass unemployment.

    Sounds like you’re describing market forces to me……

    sounds like he is voting UKIP to me 😉

    Sounds like you’re describing market forces to me……

    Of course I am. Haven’t you noticed that we live in a market economy then ?

    😕

    Premier Icon stumpyjon
    Subscriber

    just that for most people in the UK the opportunities are there if you really want it. If you don’t then fine but please don’t whinge at those who have taken these opportunties, provide jobs for others (regardless whether minimum wage or not), and now as a result earn more than you do.

    My feelings exactly although I do think the minimum wage is a good idea and should be increased in order to wean people off state benefits.

    sounds like he is voting UKIP to me

    Someone else who is shocked to discover that wages reflect what is happening in the market ?

    How bizarre.

    big_n_daft
    Member

    I think they should put in a penalty employer NI rate for hourly rates below the “living wage” to encourage employers to pay it

    It should also be introduced for any “internship” that lasts longer than two weeks, too many organisations abusing free labour

    Solo
    Member

    Of course I am. Haven’t you noticed that we live in a market economy then ?

    Well, we did, kinda, until minimum wage came in. Now its market forces of a different nature. Now company boss doesn’t have to pay you more than minimum. Its the bench mark, the standard, at a certain strata of the employment market.

    Anyway, I’ve said my bit.
    🙂

    EDIT:
    BTW, I assume you’re not saying I’d vote UKIP !
    I haven’t, I won’t.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    You can’t make statements about ‘making work pay’ to justify cutting benefits, then in the next breath talk about cutting the minimum wage. That’s just nonsensical.

    Different courses for different horses, and before you ask, no I am not IDS or rich – but I don’t resent those that have achieved this through hard work if that’s what they want.

    I don’t think that anyone resents someone who is rich and successful due to their own hard work, but take a look at who we’re presently ruled by. We have a cabinet stuffed full of Millionaires. Have they earned it through their hard work? Have they ****!! With a couple of exceptions they all inherited it. They had their vast wealth handed to them, then were provided with a gilded education that instantly gave them an absolutely enormous advantage over about 99% of the countries population

    Actual social mobility in this country is going backwards

    nick1962
    Member

    With a couple of exceptions they all inherited it.

    And?
    Will you be leaving an inheritance? To your family? Or would that be against your pinciples giving them an unfair advantage in life?

    EDIT And they probably paid tax on it too

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber
    sbob
    Member

    binners – Member

    but take a look at who we’re presently ruled by.

    It’s almost as though you’re inferring that the previous government was devoid of anyone of privilege.
    I’m sure that’s not what you wanted to make out, what with it being so utterly untrue, but thought I’d point it out to you anyway.
    🙂

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    sbob – I’m not defending the frankly completely useless labour party. They’re equally as unrepresentative. Which is my whole point. We now have a political class, who just wear different coloured ties, but who’s policies are essentially the same

    I’m just trying to stress how ridiculous the notion is that we live in some kind of meritocracy, where everyone has an equal chance to succeed.

    rebel12
    Member

    Yes Binners I agree it’s a shame that a lot of politicians have large inherited wealth but that’s who we’re stuck with for the moment. Shockingly it’s just the same whether Conservative, Labour or Lib Dem.

    Anyway here’s food for thought though: Just Googled this – I’m not a Mail Reader BTW

    rebel12
    Member

    I’m just trying to stress how ridiculous the notion is that we live in some kind of meritocracy, where everyone has an equal chance to succeed.

    I didn’t say that everyone had an equal chance – but everybody does have a chance and despite some frankly horrendous upbringings there are some real success stories out there.

    Everybody does have a chance, and I buy a lottery ticket based on chance but my chance is very small. Some people have very small chances in life others very big. The example of one person beating the odds is the same if its a lottery winner or Lord Sugar, fairly meaningless.

    I’m not defending the frankly completely useless labour party. They’re equally as unrepresentative.

    Really ? In the context of privilege? Are you sure ?

    My charge sheet against New Labour is extensive, but it doesn’t include that it is led by an unrepresentative privileged few in exactly the same way as the Tory Party is. In fact I would say the opposite, ie, New Labour leaders and senior politicians tend to come from rather typical middle-class backgrounds.

    Junkyard
    Member

    but everybody does have a chance and despite some frankly horrendous upbringings there are some real success stories out there. ou just need to ignoring the 99.9999999% of people who failed

    I am not religious but it would be somethign like the parable of the sower

    Yes some escape despite the obvious disadvantage but its utter BS to think we all could if we just tried hard enough or to suggest we all get a fair chance at escaping.
    or fo course the lottery example becasue that us what it is really- its not a practical way out for all

    CaptJon
    Member

    rebel12 – Member

    Anyway here’s food for thought though: Just Googled this – I’m not a Mail Reader BTW

    My immediate thought after ingesting those stats, is that the top 1% clearly earn far too much compared to the rest of the country.

    piemonster
    Member

    My immediate thought after ingesting those stats, is that the top 1% clearly earn far too much compared to the rest of the country.

    My thoughts exactly

    rebel12
    Member

    anagallis_arvensis – Member

    Everybody does have a chance, and I buy a lottery ticket based on chance but my chance is very small. Some people have very small chances in life others very big. The example of one person beating the odds is the same if its a lottery winner or Lord Sugar, fairly meaningless.

    Get real, Lord Sugar was a famous example not the norm.

    The norm might be considered a chap I know who failed completely at school, lived in a really bad estate in Rochdale, left with no qualifications. Jobcentre found him a job as a trainee carpenter on almost zero pay whilst training. Found he liked it and worked very hard for the next few years. Whilst working on various shopfits he thought ‘I could do this’.

    Left, bought a cheap van and took on contract work. Contracts grew through him working hard and delivering a good and reliable job. Now he has 30 others working for him and yes he’s probably a millionaire I’d say – drives an Aston anyway. His company is now one of my firm’s suppliers.

    So the chance is there for everyone – just depends how hard you’re prepared to work, not luck.

    thx1138
    Member

    Has anyone blamed foreigners yet?

    Ah yes, I see that’s been done:

    The introduction of the minimum wage has led to British people being forced out of the job market for immigrant workers who will work for less than minimum wage off the books

    Phew! What a relief. 😀

    Edric 64
    Member

    If you had qualifications though you would not be on a minimum wage but if you are only fit to stack shelves ,wipe bums and sweep pavements what do you really expect to earn?

    Edric 64
    Member

    That Aston will be leased

    thx1138
    Member

    If you had qualifications though you would mot be on a minimum wage but if you are only fit to stack shelves ,wipe bums and sweep pavements what do you really expect to earn?

    If you lack sufficient intelligence to work out why this is complete and utter bollocks, should you in fact get paid at all? 😉

    Premier Icon convert
    Subscriber

    The norm might be considered a chap I know who failed completely at school, lived in a really bad estate in Rochdale, left with no qualifications.

    Thing is not everybody fails at school and leaves with no qualifications for the same reason. Some do so because they had the wrong role models/ attitudes and what was going on around them in their childhood but have the wherewithal to come good later in life. Others leave school in the same predicament because they just don’t have much academic ability, or much other ability come to that. They can be as nice a person as you could wish to meet and as hard working as you could imagine but they are not ever going to be earning what it takes to drive an Aston. It would be reasonable to expect them to be able to earn a living wage however.

    To think the world is a level playing field and its all out there for everyone if they are just prepared to work hard enough is naive in the extreme.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    That Aston will be leased stolen 😉

    but if you are only fit to stack shelves,wipe bums and sweep pavements what do you really expect to earn?

    A living wage ?

    Is that the correct answer ?

    Junkyard
    Member

    Jobcentre found him a job as a trainee carpenter

    Lucky they found him this job eh

    Edric 64
    Member

    Lets face it some peple are utter cretins and will never have the ability to earn much thats why nvqs were invented .Dad taught and said it stood for not very qualified (tongue in cheek moment)

    b r
    Member

    My immediate thought after ingesting those stats, is that the top 1% clearly earn far too much compared to the rest of the country.

    And I’d guess that a very large percentage of them made their money (and continue to) from the public purse – from consultancy firms, through construction and defence, plus numerous others.

    Such as GP’s? And now they are able to ‘push’ NHS money directly to businesses they control, they’ll be moving up the wealth ladder.

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