What gets me is Germany has a high tax highly regulated economy and has been stable and prosperous. Can they simply not see that

Oh they see it alright. That’s the very last thing this lot want

What gets me is Germany has a high tax highly regulated economy and has been stable and prosperous. Can they simply not see that.

Germany manufacturs stuff doesn’t it -but it has to be said exports are swap of limited real resources for money which is not.

We should absolutely not have destroyed our manufacturing base though.

Also Germany has 10% CPI – it is not immune

Are we talking down the importance of exports and trade now are we? 🙈

Thought you said there was not really a plan and it’s all just crazy?

Eh? I’m saying the polar opposite of that.

There’s always been a plan (see my previous posts), it’s just that it’s being carried out by incompetent ****-wits and enabled and voted for by morons

Ok, I didn’t take account of compound growth. However, that principle applies to government spending aswell so may just cancel itself out. Either way, we can’t ignore the fact this ‘strategy’ will increase inequality across the economy.
More targeted support for household bills, longer term investments and tax on excesses are what we really need.

Anyway… back to Liz and Kamikwazi’s budget…

I see they’re doubling down yet again (tripling down? Quadrupling?…) and both have published articles today (Sun and Telegraph respectively) saying ‘there is no option’ and are also refusing to publish any independent assessments until 23rd November

Everyone feel reassured then? Good

Move along now. Nothing to see here

Either way, we can’t ignore the fact this ‘strategy’ will increase inequality across the economy.

They are even telling us that is the plan, they aren’t hiding it.

“For too long the debate in this country has been about distribution rather than how we grow our economy”

They think reducing inequity is a barrier to growth (it is not), and either that increasing inequity can create growth or is an unavoidable cost of growth (nonsense, and even if that was true, what’s the point in growth that makes 99% of us worse of with worse quality of life?!).

what we really need

Only if the ‘we’ that you refer to are the 99% of this country.
The 1% who are well and truly steering the ship now think very differently. The 99% are the cash cattle to keep the 1% enjoying the lifestyle, power, and prestige that they are used to, and more. They think that the 99% need to have enough health to work, and die off as quickly as possible once they can’t work. They need to be kept subdued and distracted, and they need to be controlled. Nothing more, because they (we) are cattle. The whole economic system is designed to keep the 99% from being able to accumulate assets of any significance, and to milk them financially to within an inch of their lives.

This is pure strain capitalism.

It was simple traditional Tory misunderstanding of growth by tax cuts, because that’s what they believe.

Yup, they genuinely want to believe it imo, although like the punter in the casino I am sure they are fully aware that much of it is dependent on luck.

And Truss’s recent comments suggests that her faith in the ‘tax cuts will generate more money for the government’ narrative is weak, as she now suggests that departmental “efficiency” is easily achievable – presumably because of 12 years of spendthrift Tory governments.

https://news.sky.com/story/cabinet-to-be-asked-to-find-efficiency-savings-in-whitehall-despite-truss-promising-no-cuts-12707062

“I’m certainly not talking about public spending cuts, what I’m talking about is raising growth.

“I want people to be able to keep hold of their own money, but we’ll also have more money to spend on our public services over the long term.”

Opposition parties really should mercilessly exploit the U-turns and lies, and relentlessly bang on about how everyone will be paying for low corporation tax and more money in the pockets of the 1%.

it’s just that it’s being carried out by incompetent ****-wits and enabled and voted for by morons

So the government are half-wits and voters are morons, any idea how we can improve the intelligence of voters to match yours binners?

Other than genocide, for which I already have plans, I’m afraid we’re ****ed for the time being comrade

Other than genocide, for which I already have plans

Our glorious masters will be well ahead of you on that one. I’m waiting for them to pull the winter fuel allowance to ‘balance the books’. It’s an obvious double win for them.

And Tufton St is in favour:

Cut the winter fuel allowance says Taxpayers' Alliance boss – those hit "might not be around" by next election http://t.co/7ToiZ8f4yn

— BBC News (UK) (@BBCNews) October 5, 2015

And Tufton St is in favour

those hit “might not be around” by next election

Alex wild is someone important inside the Tory party now, isn’t he? TPA (or one of their other branches of the same shady as hell think tank group destroying the UK) will still be on the BBC giving an independent spin on whatever he and his party doing do to us… won’t they.

It’s hard to keep track of where the shady, amoral, Tufton St drones pop up.

Even their own shill organisations are having trouble:

Hi guys. Think I can help here. The founding director of @RestoreTrustNT, Neil Record, is the chair of Global Warming Policy Forum, Institute of Economic Affairs; Former Advisor, Global Vision – all based at 55 Tufton St. Hope this helps! Maybe take this tweet down? https://t.co/3ytk0FLttj pic.twitter.com/0Uil2RORLx

— Matthew Sweet (@DrMatthewSweet) September 30, 2022

I suppose it falls on us to complain long and hard when the BBC, or other media outlets, falls back on one of their opaquely-funded propaganda outlets for easy comment. I’m pretty sure I picked up the phone to the TPA when I was a younger, more naive journo there.

That’s the bit which annoys me most. 2.5% growth won’t create enough tax revenue to cover the £45bn in cuts!

You would need over 10% growth for that.

How about helping manufacturing to be more competitive by giving aid for new technologies? Training programmes to improve productivity? Investment in R&D for new energy sources eg hydrogen? National electric car charging network.

They don’t care though.
Shrink the state and outsource everything to give their mates more money is the agenda here.
The only hope is that enough tory mp’s decide they are going to lose their seats anyway and vote against this shower of shite

At last……. among all the economic doom and gloom a bit of good news:

UK banks set for bumper income regardless of mortgage market freeze

The UK’s largest banks are set to make bumper income from rocketing rates of interest at the same time as they pull mortgage merchandise from the cabinets and depart savers with meagre returns on their deposits.

The largest home banks — NatWest, Lloyds and Barclays — are estimated to extend revenues by £12bn from 2022 to 2024

I’m no economist but that sounds great!
I hate to see the banks struggling.

Thank god that proper bonuses will be awarded to those responsible too! Lizzie has finally sorted that injustice!

It’s a win/win for everyone

oops, just can’t help themselves can they

Wow. Kwasi Kwarteng attended private champagne reception *hours* after delivering mini-budget where hedge fund managers (who would gain from crash in pound) urged him to double down – scoop from ⁦@ShippersUnbound⁩ & ⁦⁦@Gabriel_Pogrund⁩ https://t.co/s2BaN33TaB

— Pippa Crerar (@PippaCrerar) October 1, 2022

Can we have our country back, please?

In other words: three founding members of a literal lobbying company were in Downing Street advising Liz Truss as she drafted her budget.

They were paid via the company until The Sunday Times established derails of the unheard of arrangement. https://t.co/sa0mqjfMYE

— Gabriel Pogrund (@Gabriel_Pogrund) October 1, 2022

I’ve got to say I find the whole situation completely depressing. It’s clear from the government releasing they have screwed up as government bonds have gone up, that they will have to cut back, like benefits no longer being inflation linked. At the time when additional rate tax is removed and banker bonus caps are removed. Can there every have been a government more divorced from reality?

You do have to wonder why the markets weren’t filled with confidence at the realisation that batshit-crazy right wing thinktanks and lobbyists were now sat in Downing Street writing government policy?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/01/make-sure-failure-is-survivable-pms-book-reveals-pointer-to-trussonomics?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

I get the plan now, I can’t believe they’re actually doing this, it’ll be the death of the Party, prepare for another shafting in November

I’ve got twins aged 3 next Jan, I was hoping the childcare costs would come down a touch to give us some daylight, that’s another worry now, not sure they’d be able to action it in Wales.

Take it a part bit by bit as quickly as possible – has to lead to civil unrest no?

Wow. Kwasi Kwarteng attended private champagne reception *hours* after delivering mini-budget where hedge fund managers (who would gain from crash in pound) urged him to double down – scoop from ⁦@ShippersUnbound⁩ & ⁦⁦@Gabriel_Pogrund⁩ https://t.co/s2BaN33TaB

— Pippa Crerar (@PippaCrerar) October 1, 2022

Pay-wall but you get the picture.

… Trouble is, to call people out for being conspiracists in the world of high finance is to give the industry a clean bill of health that is actually rotten to its core. Knowingly.

I mean back in 2007/2008 knowingly trading poor quality (repackaged in dodgy tranches) CDOs (that they knew would fall apart) – even with a triple AAA rating and then shorting the market – well, we know what followed.

Assets are leaving in droves to the dollar – historically when this happens some sort of collapse follows.

Let’s be clear here the markets are as much part of the problem rather than it being a victim.

You do have to wonder why the markets weren’t filled with confidence at the realisation that batshit-crazy right wing thinktanks and lobbyists were now sat in Downing Street writing government policy?

Well some most definitely were.

Volatility is good for traders. Not for stability of course.

Either way government money will get spent as usual to make this all work, when the same money could’ve have been spent on the public good, and ironically creating proper growth. With know tax involved.

it’s not just the Tories though here , we are in a terrible global backdrop of poor decisions. The FED hell-bent on its mission. Inflation still going up despite interest rate rise.

We said ages ago interest rises are not the solution.

They simple don’t know how to fix it either.

Interest rate rises and market volatiy is now just the side show, the next game in town is how far they’ll go with cut backs and austerity measures to pay for this.

Remove tax, remove handouts

Week before December when everyone will already be feeling the effects of massive fuel bills and much higher mortgage rates if they were not lucky enough to fix long term

I can see the young getting screwed again and the triple lock potentially remaining in place

It’ll make them unelectable for years if they go through with their plan, even against a rosey backdrop it’s hard to implement, doing it against a back drop of the cost of living crises is insane for the party. They need to force that budget forward and find a way to stop her

Can we have our country back, please?

I suspect asking nicely is not going to cut it. We will have to rekindle the fear and respect of the electorate in our rulers.

Truss said this morning on the Kuensberg interview that she remains committed to the triple lock.

About the only part of the welfare budget or the public sector that she will commit to

Everything else is in the chopping block and in-line for enormous cuts

Looks like there’s a rebellion in the offing from the few remaining sane Tory MPs left after the previous Brexiteer purge. If only for their own self-interest in keeping their seats. They know these policies are electoral suicide

Liz is too ideologically blinded to see it and doesn’t seem to care much anyway

Ill bet she goes after my NHS pension. Its indexed linked iirc. Ill bet that is broken.

Nhs and other similar pensions have been the subject of a campaign of lies for a long time. That’s been the preparation for an attack on them. Already the NHS scheme has been made much worse for new entrants. Ill bet my house there is an attack on these pensions on bogus grounds of affordability.

Just to say that if i wasn’t getting my meagre NHS pension i would be on disability benefits.

Ill bet she goes after my NHS pension. Its indexed linked iirc. Ill bet that is broken

You can take that as read. Absolutely everything is now fair game for this lot. Their disaster capitalist owners are calling in their payments

The ‘opportunities of Brexit’ are about to become very real… for the 1%

For the rest of us… austerity on steroids

Dont worry Jake Berry has the answer.
10years my fellow **** of Rossendale have voted for him.

https://news.sky.com/video/cut-consumption-or-get-a-new-higher-paid-job-says-conservative-party-chair-12710016

Wage inflation is a higher paid job though. Or am I missing something.

It’s not about people getting higher paid jobs really, it’s about telling people that if they aren’t paid enough, it’s their own fault. Or more important for us all to think of our fellow Brits in that way… “people aren’t struggling because of government decisions, they are struggling because they are too lazy to work longer and harder or to go and get a better paid job”… it’s the basis of the Britannia Unchained doctrine. Not sure it’ll be swallowed so easily when more and more people are finding times tough.

rone
Full Member

… Trouble is, to call people out for being conspiracists in the world of high finance is to give the industry a clean bill of health that is actually rotten to its core. Knowingly.

I mean back in 2007/2008 knowingly trading poor quality (repackaged in dodgy tranches) CDOs (that they knew would fall apart) – even with a triple AAA rating and then shorting the market – well, we know what followed.

So, one of my brother’s first jobs with RBOS was basically backtracking and reporting historic mistakes, since they’d been so full of the certainty of their genius and/or a knowledge that if they looked too closely they’d find problems and so they just refused to look, that they didn’t have good reportage of some major recent-historic decisions. A sort of financial pathologist.

Anyway RBOS had fallen totally in love with the repackaging of bad risk into CDOs that could then be rubber stamped AAA by a friendly credit agency and as if by magic turned into assets. Amazeballs, you can just basically squash em together and wrap them up and suddenly that liability that was dragging you down can be sold to someone else at a profit. And also because of the AAA rating, they can continue to treat it as an asset too even though it isn’t. It’s perfect, basically a way of just erasing risk from balance-sheet existence, even though it still exists.

But of course, that cut both ways, and they were at the same time actively buying other people’s CDOs that were actually bad risks, in the full knowledge that everything they were selling was a jobby rolled in gold leaf. But despite knowing this, they still managed to pretend that everything they were buying was a genuine AAA bundle, solid gold, despite the smell. Delusional, stupid or fraudulent, it’s almost impossible to know now. Let’s be charitable and call it a mistake.

So that’s the obvious mistake- they took what could have been the Magic Jobby Jettisoning Tool, and instead turned it into a Jobby Jettisoning and Obtaining Tool. And they managed to act as if the jobby jettisoned was a risk, but the equivalent jobby obtained using the exact same trick was an asset. And as soon as that was entered into the accounts, they just acted as if it were all true. Almost exactly like someone took a bag of money from a safe and replaced it with a jobby, but at the same time managed to believe that the jobby was worth the same as the money they’d taken out, as long as nobody looked. Schrodinger’s Jobby.

But that’s just the obvious mistake. Where my bro came in, was the Advanced Mistake, the one that you need really highly paid fiscal geniuses to make. Which is:

“Oh so we bought a bunch of shiny jobbies mistakenly believing them to be gold. (well, fraudulently, but you can’t admit that or the whole financial system breaks instantly), but now we’ve looked at them and they have resolved their quantum-jobby state into being definitely just jobbies. ****! That’s really bad. Unless… We repackage a whole of of these jobbies and sell them on as a super-jobby wrapped in basically the same gold leaf stretched even thinner.” Moodys/whoever go, aye, sounds fine to us, we can clearly see it’s shiny, nudge nudge wink wink”

But of course everyone else did the same! So <this> was what bro was discovering- RBOS had taken their jobbies, and sold them as assets to other banks. Those other banks had ALSO rolled them into superjobbies and at this point RBOS, despite fully understanding and participating in the scam, couldn’t resist all those shinies.

So yes, they’d bought back a huge amount of their own jobbies, in many cases for more than they’d sold them for. the overall jobby count was pretty consistent but because of the creative accounting they’d turned them into a double loss simply by the power of imagination.

So yes, they’d bought back a huge amount of their own jobbies, in many cases for more than they’d sold them for. the overall jobby count was pretty consistent but because of the creative accounting they’d turned them into a double loss simply by the power of imagination.

A self perpetuating stream of shit?, yeah……..that just about sums it up perfectly

@northwind you managed to articulate it all there and make it poetry.

Everyone time get out your copy of margin call for this scene.

So U-turn on that tax rate cut? No surprises they clearly didn’t like the polling on that.

Reality – they are going to have to lower tax rates for the lower end even more and try and stimulate the economy – whilst the BoE tries and puts the brakes on.

Finance at the levels we are discussing is gambling that mostly benefits the house.

Don’t let anyone tell you it raises the most revenue for the country.

A an excellent MMT drawdown of recent events.

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9waWxldXNtbXQubGlic3luLmNvbS9yc3M/episode/OTJjOWJlMTItNzdhZi00YTcxLWFiNjYtZjhhZmY0NTQ4NDY5?ep=14

Northwinds post is essentially what is explained in ‘The Big Short’, just without Christian Bale and Steve Carell.

The ‘if you aren’t paid enough, it’s your fault, try harder, you are owed nothing’ is a VERY popular view in the US.

Not sure I get the u- turn, I mean I do on a superficial’feel good’ perspective, but if all this was a defined strategy to help the economy then that’s just ruined?

So what does this give the economy back in terms of improvement? I bet in reality it’s not much ?