If The only way you can defend it is petty Semantics then you are abviously struggling and it’s clearly wrong 🙄

Told you Angela Merkel is stooopid …

See before her open door policy there was not even such discussion but now they need to deal so many problems.

If that’s not stooopid what is? 😆

Yes, you do Junkyard.

What 😯 I have to explain why discrimination based on the nationality of someone is racist. I dont have the words as I am dumbstruck you wish to argue the point.

petty Semantics

It is not petty semantics. There does not appear to be a major problem with established communities but the recent arrival of thousands of young men who are seeking asylum.

To confuse this with racism is dangerous.

Not one of the hand wringers has suggested a viable solution for this.

petty Semantics

Read back Neal, paying particular attention to your own contributions to this thread.

Is being stooopid better or worse than being a zombie maggot?

Junkyard – lazarus
FWIW I am not english.

Hey Junkyard so what are you? 😛

zippykona – Member
Is being stooopid better or worse than being a zombie maggot?

That depends greatly on your philosophy.

Is she drone like? (dictated by programmed instructions)
Is she zombie maggot? (contaminated brain juice – virus like)
Is she stooopid? (own will to be programmed and to have contaminated brain juice)

That is the question. 😆

Look carefully at the definitions you will see that …

@Edukator, yes well aware of the issue with “Roma” and travellers in French towns. As we are in Paris we see many shanty tiwns / dwellings around the Periph. My French in-laws always say how lucky UK is to be an Island.

For those arguing that the pool ban is racist just remember it applies to men only. Immigrant women and children are still welcome. Also,it is a ban on immigtants / asylum seekers independent of their nationaility

As we are on this thread rather the others two other interetsing stories today;

German Finance Minister has suggested all EU countries (potentially including the Uk) should raise fuel duty to pay for improved border security.

Of 5,500 failed asylum seekers from Algeria, Tunisia and Morocco who should have been deported from Germnay in the first 6 months of 2015 only 56 have left. Partly I understand as their host countries don’t want them back I assume as they came from Syria

Come now Junkyard, Great Britain discriminates on the basis of nationality every day. I can enter the UK because I have a French ID card, but all of those people in the jungle in Calais are stuck in the jungle because they don’t have nationalities that allow them automatic entry into the UK. That’s not racism.

Not one of the hand wringers has suggested a viable solution for this.

Ban/punish people who break rules/laws.

Leave people alone that don’t.

Treat people as individuals they are not “all the same”

(And if you find yourself saying that about people, It’s fairly possible you are some type of bigot)

Read back Neal, paying particular attention to your own contributions to this thread.

If you have a point to make, make it.

For those arguing that the pool ban is racist just remember it applies to men only

What is your point here?
is it if you are sexist at the same time as being racist then you wont really be being either?

I’m saying that a blanket ban on an entire group based on their ethnicity is wrong.

Would a blanket ban based on sex be wrong?

I can think of plenty of places that have women only pool/gym sessions, it’s happened for along time, and is clearly not viewed to be sexist (except maybe by some nutters, but I am fairly sure that courts have upheld it)

Is banning a small segment of the community based on the behaviour of a notable minority amongst it and the impact it has on female participation and wellbeing any worse than banning an entire sex based on much the same thing?

@neal, we are not suggesting the pool ban is the medium term solution but the mayor of thentown / pool manager was ina real bind as what to do NOW.

There is huge fristration at a local and regional level in Germany as towns and cities have to manage the fall out from Merkels idiotic and poorly thought out statement. Another German mayor sent a bus load of immigrants (who agreed to go) to Berlin for Merkel to deal with as they had roommfor no more.

chewkw – Member

Junkyard – lazarus
FWIW I am not english.

Hey Junkyard so what are you? [/quote]

You have not answered my question.

Over to you! 😛

is it if you are sexist at the same time as being racist then you wont really be being either?

No.

It’s fairly possible you are some type of bigot

We are all prejudice in one way or another. It’s just a matter of scale.

A bit like Autism.

If thinking that the majority of those young men from North African Muslim countries will have bigoted views on women and their role and status, makes me a bigot. Then I must be a bigot.

I’d call you a realist, gobuchul. From my “enlightened”, “humanist”, “secular” background and having read too much by Vian, Sartre, Camus and de Beauvoir.

Edukator – Troll

I’d call you a realist, gobuchul. From my “enlightened”, “humanist”, “secular” background and having read too much by, Vian, Satre, Camus and de Beavoir.

Me! Me! Me! Please! How about me?

What would you call me? Seriously.

Junkyard – lazarus
FWIW I am not english.

In the meantime … Junkyard you have not answered my question yet … What are you? 😈

Three North African immigrants arrested for stoning in Dortmund:

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01/16/t/

A bit like Autism

It’s not even a tiny bit like Autism.

Sometimes I’d love to be able to take some STW members for a guided tour of some places in France and Germany, with their wife/sister/mother/daughter dressed in their holiday best being sent out 100m in front. North Africa too.

On that happy thought, goodnight all.

It’s not even a tiny bit like Autism.

The traits of being prejudice and the traits of Autism are completely different.

However all of those “score” somewhere on the Autism scale.

In the same way we are all bigots just to a different extent.

Being prejudice doesn’t always mean you are always wrong.

e.g. I am currently working in Houston, Tx, I tend to think that the majority of the ‘mericans that I work with will all carry guns, vote right wing, drive pick ups, hate hybrid cars and frequently make casually racist remarks. I wouldn’t be right 100% of the time to the description probably fits a good 75%.

I walked around a village market in SW France with a black friend while we were on holidays. It was great fun looking at the photos of geese being force-fed through funnels in an effort to persuade us to buy foie-gras. What was slightly more disconcerting was the blatantly hostile stares to which my friend and I were subjected (don’t know what I’d done – maybe just consorting with a black person was enough). To be fair, he took it in his stride – he’d grown up in Hackney being stopped and searched through most of his teenage life. Large swathes of the country are pretty openly racist – it’s no wonder the FN does so well there. If I wanted to live a more openly racist life, and to be honest, there are times when I’d like to, because this country is just PC gone mad these days, I’d improve my conversational French and move there.

In the same way we are all bigots just to a different extent.

Yes, of course. Only, I know plenty of people who aren’t. I’m sure they’re the only ones though. So apart from them, yes, everybody is a bigot. Apart from the ones I know who aren’t. I guess they’re the only ones.

It’s the kind of statement bigots make when they need to justify bigotry. Is that your intent?

It’s the kind of statement bigots make when they need to justify bigotry. Is that your intent?

I have already admitted I’m bigoted.

We all are.

Are you saying you never prejudge people? We all do. It’s an animal instinct. It was necessary for survival.

Have you defied evolution?

We all are.

When I’m a little unsure of myself, I find that repeating the same thing over and over again restores my self-belief.

Sometimes I’d love to be able to take some STW members for a guided tour of some places in France and Germany, with their wife/sister/mother/daughter dressed in their holiday best being sent out 100m in front. North Africa too.

You do realise you aren’t the only person from England to have made it across the Channel don’t you 🙄

You live in France I believe (pretty sure you’ve mentioned that a few thousand times) and As I mentioned earlier I’ve lived all over Europe, and have spent a bit of time in North Africa.

Oddly enough, my experience hasn’t left unable to differentiate between bigotry and “realism”

Ymmv.

When I’m a little unsure of myself, I find that repeating the same thing over and over again restores my self-belief.

So you don’t prejudge ANYONE? That is very strange behaviour. I am not even sure how that would work in real life.

I wrote earlier that I think that the majority of the young men from the North African Islamic countries, who are in the refugee centre, in the news item about the swimming pool ban, would hold certain views about the role and status of women, particularly ones who dressed and behaved in a certain way.

I worked with a lot of Pakistani’s, not UK nationals but guys that lived in Pakistan. The majority, 99%, were very decent, honest people. They had a lot of attributes, however, feminism certainly wasn’t one of them.

I also made a statement about white Texans and my prejudice from dealing with them.

Does that make me a bigot? A racist?

bigoted
?
adjective
obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, and intolerant towards other people’s beliefs and practices

We really are not all like this. I am not sure we were ever evolutionary compelled to be such.

Bigotry and “pre judging” or reading a scenario are not the same things

Bigotry and “pre judging” or reading a scenario are not the same things

They basically are. It’s just at what level.

I would just like to state that from JY definition of bigotry I don’t consider myself a bigot. I still stand by my prejudiced opinions that I stated earlier.

deadlydarcy – Member
It’s the kind of statement bigots make when they need to justify bigotry. Is that your intent?

Is that simple? Ya? 😆

Junkyard – lazarus

bigoted
?
adjective
obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, and intolerant towards other people’s beliefs and practices

We really are not all like this. I am not sure we were ever evolutionary compelled to be such.

Bigotry and “pre judging” or reading a scenario are not the same things

Ya, ya, ya … very well with all those responses etc …

But you still have not answered my question to you.

What’s up? 🙄

DrJ, there is no right to enter or live in a country of your choice, so there is no breach of CERD in applying a nationality condition to restrict this.

Do currently un-processed refugees have all the same rights as citizens?

Calling someone a racist or bigot is an excellent way of shutting down a debate about a difficult topic. The accusation however does not prove the fact. In this case the ban seems justified as a temporary measure until a long term solution can be found. Anyone who has spent any length of time in a strictly Islamic country would,at least, be aware that attitudes in many young males are very inconsistent with those here in the west, to deny this is simply foolish. Just stating that fact is enough to be called racist or bigoted in many circles it seems. All ideas and beliefs have equal standing is the view put forward, I am afraid to say they simply don’t, there is a scale of human well being that many Islamic beliefs and customs support less well than other systems. Unfortunately sometimes the actions of the few do inconvenience the many, as has happened here. Shouting racism from the sidelines seems at best counter productive and at worst a deliberately inflammatory thing to do.

Anyone who has spent any length of time in a strictly Islamic country would,at least, be aware that attitudes in many young males are very inconsistent with those here in the west, to deny this is simply foolish.

Lucky then, that nobody has done that eh ?

Just stating that fact is enough to be called racist or bigoted in many circles it seems

Gobuchul seemed to be enjoying calling himself a bigot (until a definition of what it meant was posted)

Three North African immigrants arrested for stoning in Dortmund:

@ninfan please stop posting such inconvenient mews items, its pointless anyway as people here will just ignore it and won’t reply anyway

The tension in Germany is extremely high but Frau Merkel is trying to sweep it under a very very large carpet whilst her Finance minister suggests citizens throughout the EU should pay for her idiocy with higher fuel taxes.

there are “inconvenient news items” from both sides of the fence.

Four suspected neo-Nazis to stand trial in Germany on charges of planning nail bomb terror attacks against mosques and refugee shelters

Was there restrictions put on all white German males due to the actions of this minority ?

Or did they just arrest the actual people involved and leave everyone else alone ?

Actually that isn’t inconveninet at all, it shows the difficulties of managing a huge influx of people from a different culture in a short period of time. Germany is a country where Pergida have held frequent rallies regularly attracting 10’s of thousands of people. Encouraging a million asylum seekers into an already somewhat unstable environment was very naive. Frau Merkel assumed her “who arrive legally” qualifier would control the numbers, she was very wrong.

Part of the nail bomb plot was to bomb Mosques, unless the refugees have been very busy since they arrived, then it was just Muslims they were going to be attacking, refugees or not.

Either way, Merkel’s policies are not really relevant to this particular debate.

The situation is what it is.

We are discussing whether it’s ok to ban all male refugees from certain places because of the actions of a few.

Was there restrictions put on all white German males due to the actions of this minority ?

Yes, there are huge restrictions on all ‘white German males’ due to the actions of neo-nazis, Strafgesetzbuch 86a outlaws all sorts of things – flags, uniforms, books, greetings, traditional folk songs etc.

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