Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 276 total)
  • 'Migrant men banned from German swimming pool'
  • wrecker
    Member

    Perhaps idiots wouldn’t be putting discriminatory (I won’t use the r word, as I understand there are various races involved) policies in place if the police were doing something about the assaults.
    Failing to punish criminals for clearly criminal acts – regardless of race, colour, belief etc – just allows the racists to be racists.

    When you say “recall”, you mean recalled from probation/parole after having committed a crime in the first place, yes?

    I mean recalled because they’ve broken licence conditions. If they’ve broken a harrasment order for instance, (in which case it often has something to do with their original offence but not always)
    Harrassing people is wrong so the word ‘just’ was innapropriate.

    Lets just imagine dozens of men had been sexually harassing young women in YOUR town.

    How then would you feel about possibly letting the same group of people into the pool where your Mrs and kid had gone for a swim?

    I’m not suggesting that they shouldn’t do something about people breaking the law – clearly sexual harassment isn’t acceptable. My issue is more with how they have chosen to deal with it.

    Perhaps they could have used some sort of law enforcement agency to arrest those actually committing the crimes instead?

    If I was part of a group of (presumably largely innocent) people being discriminated against by the authorities because a few of the group are committing a crime, I can’t see it improving my motivation to cooperate with those authorities. Maybe the innocent majority won’t mind, and won’t feel any sense of injustice. Maybe.

    chip
    Member

    Perhaps they could have used some sort of law enforcement agency to arrest those actually committing the crimes instead?

    No crimes were committed just harassment. What that harassment consisted of has not been reported.

    Perhaps idiots wouldn’t be putting discriminatory (I won’t use the r word, as I understand there are various races involved) policies in place if the police were doing something about the assaults.
    Failing to punish criminals for clearly criminal acts – regardless of race, colour, belief etc – just allows the racists to be racists.

    I would imagine finding and prosecuting a group of migrant men might prove a little trickier than a group of locals

    Harrassing people is wrong so the word ‘just’ was innapropriate.

    It’s entirely appropriate when comparing to actual assault or molestation. He didn’t batter him to within an inch of his life your honour, he just punched him once.

    I understood the context of what the poster meant. Did you not?

    Perhaps they could have used some sort of law enforcement agency to arrest those actually committing the crimes instead?

    This is the nub of it for me. An awful lot of bigoty racisty types will jump to the conclusion that the police are doing nothing so it’s up to the people to take the law into their own hands. It is up to the police to investigate complaints or reports of criminal behaviour. Not an elected mayor. (Mind you, I don’t know what powers a mayor in Germany has in relation to this kind of thing.) As a country, Germany can’t go welcoming hundreds of thousands of immigrants, then marginalising them once they arrive. That’s a recipe for disaster.

    Premier Icon angeldust
    Subscriber

    Lets just imagine dozens of men had been sexually harassing young women in YOUR town.

    How then would you feel about possibly letting the same group of people into the pool where your Mrs and kid had gone for a swim?

    Sometimes you have to look after your local community and if that means discriminating against a certain group of people, then so be it. Until people from these backgrounds learn how to behave and integrate into Europe, then they are going to have to suffer some disadvantages.

    Wow. I am amazed at your ignorance. Do you not understand why racial discrimination is a bad thing? Lets say you are a Tall Chinese guy (just as an example). A group of Tall Chinese guys (unrelated to you) cause a bit of trouble in your town, so the government decide to deport (or restrict your freedom to go swimming, whatever) all Tall Chinese guys from the UK, including you, despite the fact you have been model citizen your whole life. Does that seem fair to you? Is that simple enough for you to understand? Punish crimes, not races.

    Edukator
    Member

    If I were part of the group I would hope a bit of self policing might be going on. We were hanging around outside a local venue waiting for junior’s band to play, I witnessed a guy running down the street pursued by one of the group he was in. The guy chasing shouted that the runner had been less than respectful to a woman, the runner didn’t deny, took two no-pulled-punches right-handers and went down. The chaser explained what had happened to the bemused crowd and walked off. His “victim” muttered something to the effect that the other guy was right, that he didn’t want the police, and skulked off. The men were visually of the same race with similar accents.

    jambalaya
    Member

    A scenario.

    Bunch of men from a very conservative society where women are generally/always covered, rarely/no sex before marriage arrive in liberal wstern country
    Go to swimming pool as they have heard / know western women will be there in totally mixed environment
    Hormones raging go into pool
    Culturally believe western / uncovered women are easily available / loose
    Obvious outcome

    The Mayor has to protect his citizens, its actually arguably reasonable to assume all the male immigrants from a comservative Muslim society with little experiemce of the West would behave in the same way

    It is unfair to pit such temptation in someones way, if you have a very hungry person you don’t put food in front of them without expecting they might help themselves amd steal if You have 100,000’s of young men, sex starved, totally unused to seeing women in swim wear, being slightly drunk or even moving about freely. To expect them to behave as we ina liberal western society woud do is unreasonable.

    @bikebouy if it was a shower they wanted they could do that without going for a swim

    That’s a recipe for disaster.

    Interesting phrase @dd, its the one I would use for inviting 1+ million people from a very different culture into your country and then allowing them to wander around freely like any other citizen.

    its the one I would use for inviting 1+ million people from a very different culture into your country and then allowing them to wander around freely like any other citizen.

    It doesn’t surprise me in the slightest that the likes of you would have that opinion jambalaya.

    Inviting? Providing refugees from an appalling situation refuge is a little more accurate 😉

    We seem to have no problem going overseas and behaving in a way that offends local cultures, but heaven forbid if the opposite happens.

    chip
    Member

    I understand people’s concerns about not taring everyone with the same brush. But there is obviously a problem with immigrants harassing woman patrons to the point of it affecting there business and also they feel a duty of care to there users.
    What if they did nothing and something more serious happened could they have prevented it.

    There life guards are exactly that and not security staff. They are trained to save people from drowning not to confront groups of men and eject them if needed with minimum force.

    If groups of young men are causing problems that may threaten the safety of there punters either real or perceived they have two alternatives to banning everyone who fits that profile. Either hire security staff or close.

    Premier Icon bikebouy
    Subscriber

    I can only imagine the thoughts of the residents of the affected town/village being relieved at the decision, as bad as that may seem to some.

    Premier Icon nealglover
    Subscriber

    Lets just imagine dozens of men had been sexually harassing young women in YOUR town.

    Ok I’m imaging that.

    I’m also imagining that they were white.

    I’m now imagining that there would be no restrictions put in place on ALL white men because of it, because obviously that would be **** rediculous and wouldn’t happen.

    Would you agree ?

    km79
    Member

    Ok I’m imaging that.

    I’m also imagining that they were white.

    I’m now imagining that there would be no restrictions put in place on ALL white men because of it, because obviously that would be **** rediculous and wouldn’t happen.

    Would you agree ?

    I see a better comparison being more like a large group of local high school kids are harassing women in the local swimming pool. Swimming pool company doesn’t have the resources to deal with every complaint and individual being accused on a one to one basis.

    Swimming pool asks for help to get message through to high school kids what is and isn’t acceptable behavior in a swimming pool. In meantime groups of kids from the local high school are banned until their teachers have a word with them at assembly or whatever.

    I think it’s perfectly reasonable.

    chip
    Member

    I am sure German brown people are allowed.

    Junkyard
    Member

    allowing them to wander around freely like any other citizen.

    What about yellow stars on clothes so we can tell who they are we can then restrict their freedom to do stuff?

    I dont have a final solution for the problem do you?

    chip
    Member

    The sweetshop on my way to school had a two school children rule. To stop the feckers steaming in mob handed and looting the place.

    chewkw
    Member

    jambalaya – Member

    A scenario.

    Bunch of men from a very conservative society where women are generally/always covered, rarely/no sex before marriage arrive in liberal wstern country
    Go to swimming pool as they have heard / know western women will be there in totally mixed environment
    Hormones raging go into pool
    Culturally believe western / uncovered women are easily available / loose
    Obvious outcome

    The description is accurate from my perspective. I know someone will come along to argue for generalisation but it is rather accurate.

    I remember we went to the beach South of France between Nice and Monaco many moons ago … the women were sunbathing topless … guess what? Three of us were in the water ogling at their “peaks” then grinned with amusement why these women were so “loose” … but that’s all we did and I think one of the woman/girl gave us the “go away” look so we went … embarrassed. 😛

    These group of people you have come from very conservative background and I can bet you they will be like children in the candy store …

    Junkyard – lazarus
    What about yellow stars on clothes so we can tell who they are we can then restrict their freedom to do stuff?

    I dont have a final solution for the problem do you?

    They have ID card so just use that. Simple.

    Ya, they have ID card … funny innit!

    Not the argument for final solution again … why on earth do you have to keep referring to gassing people en mass WWII style … you know that’s not going to happen. C’mon! My Mongol example is much more better than yours. Also Dear Leader Mao murdered 70 million while yours are not even closed. What you talking about eh?

    Edukator
    Member

    There are plenty of restrictions that apply to all white men where I live, Nealglover, and they are all designed to discriminate against one minority group or another. In some places you can’t wear any religious symbols, in others you have to wear long trowsers (not jeans), a jacket and tie, in others football/rugby attire is banned, some have a hair code (no fascho Nazi cuts, dreadlocks or hippie hair).

    Angeldust, If I were a tall Chinese guy in your example I’d accept that until the other tall Chinese guys could be persuaded to live by law I could expect to be discriminated against and it would be a good idea to work with the powers that be to in dealing with the tall Chinese trouble makers.

    That’s me speaking as an immigrant and member of a minority. In some situations I keep my big mouth shut rather than draw attention to my origins. It doesn’t mean licking people’s boots, far from it, it just means making sure I’m on the side of right and good and living by local rules, written and unwritten. It also involved giving a British motorist a lesson in local road law when he’d overtaken groups of cyclists up the Col d’Aubisque at the British 6 inches rather than the French 1.5m.

    gobuchul
    Member

    What about yellow stars on clothes so we can tell who they are we can then restrict their freedom to do stuff?

    Of course the Germans are treating these refugees just like they did the Jews in the 30’s. 🙄

    I agree with Edukator.

    chewkw
    Member

    Edukator – Troll
    Angeldust, If I were a tall Chinese guy in your example I’d accept that until the other tall Chinese guys could be persuaded to live by law I could expect to be discriminated against and it would be a good idea to work with the powers that be to in dealing with the tall Chinese trouble makers.

    I can assure you that tall Chinese guy no matter how nasty they are will not go awol apeshite in a new society. It is not in their blood. They might be very Chinese but majority will have Tao. In fact most orientals have that Tao.

    You see Chinese making headline awol? They might have murdered a few of their own kind but that’s all … any other headline?

    Premier Icon nealglover
    Subscriber

    There are plenty of restrictions that apply to all white men where I live, Nealglover, and they are all designed to discriminate against one minority group or another. In some places you can’t wear any religious symbols, in others you have to wear long trowsers (not jeans), a jacket and tie, in others football/rugby attire is banned, some have a hair code (no fascho Nazi cuts, dreadlocks or hippie hair).

    So none of those those rules apply to brown people then ?

    Interesting.

    Premier Icon angeldust
    Subscriber

    Lol. Chewkw, the ‘tall Chinese guy’ thing was just a random (and flippant) example of a specific race or group of people to try and get past people’s discrimination (of Muslims, basically).

    Junkyard
    Member

    Of course the Germans are treating these refugees just like they did the Jews in the 30’s.

    WHoosh

    I think you need to work on your irony/sarcasm/piss taking detection.

    It is a fair point to say that countries and individuals who support a system of two tier rights for citizens don’t tend to lead to good results be it in germany or South Africa or Israel.
    Its pretty off to decide that all immigrants should not be allowed to wander around freely like any other citizen.

    Edukator
    Member

    They apply to everybody, Neal. But this being STW… . ***

    There’s a very simple solution to this.
    Just provide “woman and kids only” sessions at certain times (maybe 20% of the total opening hours).
    If the men complain, let them have male only sessions for an equivalent percentage of time with the balance of opening hours available to anyone

    (Sorry, a boringly practical solution ain’t the STW tradition)

    km79
    Member

    Or just ban the people that were causing bother. Which they did. Even simpler.

    Edukator
    Member

    Most countries I can think off have rules governing groups of people and give police the right to disperse them. Demonstrations have to be announced in advance in many places.

    A mini-bus load of police turned up at my local pool (you’ll forgive me for referring to it as my “local pool” as I can’t think of anything better) to disperse/arrest one group that was causing trouble – I’ll have look and see if it’s still on the site of the local paper (apologies in advance for referring to it as the “local paper”), edit: too old

    jambalaya
    Member

    From the Guardian (longer piece about established Middle Eastern immigrants volunteering to give courses to tye new comers about German culture including tolerence of homosexuality) link

    Mr Hilmi, a 44-year-old engineer from Morocco who did not want to give his first name, has lived in Germany for decades. He volunteers to support refugees, but says the country cannot keep welcoming them at the rate of recent months. “Merkel’s ‘Willkommenskultur’ [welcoming culture] was right up to a point, but the government has long lost control. She should adjust her course to limit the inflow of migrants,” he said.

    “The atmosphere has recently turned, especially here in Cologne.”

    Already, he says, some Germans seem more afraid of people they think might be foreigners, and as a result he is making “small changes” to his life. He will be skipping the city’s carnival this year, normally a favourite celebration, because of worries about exposing his two young children to violence and racism.

    “I would be concerned that the situation this year might be more tense than in the past. And I don’t want any trouble with drunk people who might say something offensive when they see someone foreign-looking.”

    wrecker
    Member

    No crimes were committed just harassment. What that harassment consisted of has not been reported.

    It has been pretty widely reported I thought? Harassment is acted on by the police in the UK all the time.

    TurnerGuy
    Member

    When we stopped over in Columbo airport recently the percentage of men that looked at my wife in a predatory manner was pretty shocking. Even in Male and the Maldives island there were a few – possibly they were Indian rather than Maldivian. Definitely some sort of cultural issue with how they regard women and what women who are not covered up mean to them.

    jambalaya
    Member

    @dd I am fully supportive of the UKs funding of refugee camps and its policy of accepting defined numbers of refugees from those camps as selected and vetted by the UN. Simple and effective.

    Actually Merkel didn’t invite 1m refugess, she invited everyone from Syria who arrrived in Germany legally. Its just the last part which not surprisingly is being ignored. When she did it I immediately called her an idiot on the forum. See my post above, quote from the ethically Moroccan German – the government has lost control which is no surprise at all.

    JY there is a world of difference in asking an established resident community who are citizens of your country to live in ghettos and wear yellow stars to banning a group of asylum seekers whilst you figure out to deal with cultural differences.

    jambalaya
    Member

    As I udnerstand it it was “verbal harrasment”, after NYE in Cologne I can imagine no women in swimwear in the pool where going to hang around and wait for what next. Remember the Arabic/German translations found on NYE suspects – I like your breasts, i want to have sex with you, I will kill you

    FFS. Pull yourself together, OP.

    Edukator
    Member

    The changing our lifestyles due to fear is happening in both urban and rural France, Jambalaya, as you are no doubt aware. There have been so many incidents involving one mobile immigrant group at village fetes that many mayors have stopped holding them.

    Women are increasingly reticent to travel alone and venture into certain areas alone. Who can blame them:

    http://www.leparisien.fr/versailles-78000/versailles-un-viol-evite-de-justesse-dans-un-train-07-01-2016-5428711.php

    Whatever the solution is it shouldn’t involve cancelling traditional events and having two CRS in every train carriage and on every street corner.

    Premier Icon nealglover
    Subscriber

    They apply to everybody, Neal. But this being STW… . ***

    I’m genuinely lost. If they are rules that apply to everyone. How are they relevant ?

    kcr
    Member

    Lets just imagine dozens of men had been sexually harassing young women in YOUR town.

    No need to imagine…
    One in five UK women are victims of sexual offences

    Sometimes you have to look after your local community and if that means discriminating against a certain group of people, then so be it. Until people from these backgrounds learn how to behave and integrate into Europe, then they are going to have to suffer some disadvantages.

    How do you get non migrant UK males to behave themselves and stop assaulting women? It’s a tricky one, isn’t it?

    Premier Icon chickenman
    Subscriber

    I’m in so many minds about this:
    -Germany has been massively more welcoming to migrants than Britain has recently.
    -I was at a football match in Stuttgart 1982 listening to a sector of the crowd chanting “foreigners out, Germany for the Germans!” I sh*t myself!
    -I think the issue with young immigrant men from the Middle East/North Africa is a real time bomb: Brought up to believe they are should command respect just because they are guys, that women however command no respect; they enter a culture where respect is earned and where often women are the head of the household, are sexually confident and a place where they maybe don’t find work.
    I worry about these guys feeling the pressure from all sides turning towards the very thing they were fleeing from.

    Edukator
    Member

    FFS, Neal, you were the one who first used the words “all white” with a few block capitals to boot. I used exactly your own words without the block capitals and now you’re asking me about the relevance. I’ll clarify: the restrictions I mentioned apply to all males, including all white males and any other group of males irrespective of race, creed, culture, origin, religion.

    My guitar makes more sense than people here sometimes, time to play it.

Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 276 total)

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