Going t’other way, I’ve had a pair of Hebden’s famous kecks stuck in Spanish customs for a month. No reason given, I suspect they were hoping to hold them long enough to levy duty on them 😉

None of the German sites are allowing UK orders, hopefully they’ll start coming up this week.

I ordered some stuff from Bikeinn and Skatepro last week. Bikeinn seems to have left the warehouse in Spain but hasn’t progessed any further, the Skatepro order is still awaiting pickup

Haven’t EU companies that sell over a certain amount into other EU countries always had to pay VAT direct to the purchasers country? Back when I worked on a large golf e-commerce site I remember someone senior saying they did enough business to need vat registration in several EU countries and would shortly need it in a few more.

Problem at the moment is that deliveries to the uk have been suspended due to Brexit and covid. This lots of retailers have stopped. Question now is, who restarts. Some might, some might say minimum order quantity, some might have no awareness of uk regs, it’s generally a clsterfyck. I guess give it a few months and it’ll be a little clearer as to what is going to happen. Comments I am seeing are talking about at least 6 months of border issues.

and using internment camps with no facilities is really going to encourage lorry drivers to cross the channel!

R2-bike say they are shipping from the 2nd Jan (yesterday) so hopefully the other German sellers will join in (bike24, bike-discount etc.)

I’m after some Sram brakes and the UK stock is woeful.

I’m not sure how vat works ,all I know is that with our shop we have to work it out and send the money to hmrc.
Why do the suppliers need to get involved?

Things are getting rediculous now, Brooks have stopped selling in the UK due to Brexit! (or, it could be argued an inefficient distribution system)

(don’t) sit on it

If that’s correct tthew, then that’s madness in road miles and extra cost for UK customers.

I’d also suggest that they knew an issue was coming and could have done a deal in the last year with a UK distributor or done it for themselves.

I’d also suggest that they knew an issue was coming and could have done a deal in the last year with a UK distributor or done it for themselves.

They have a UK distributor who distribute to bike shops.

Think I got caught out by this yesterday, bloody Brexit…. went to order from bikediscount.de to find that the UK had been removed from their postage location (I couldn’t find it anyway)

Great, the one place that had the item I wanted…. I can’t buy from.

Haven’t EU companies that sell over a certain amount into other EU countries always had to pay VAT direct to the purchasers country

This has been the case for a few years, you used to just pay VAT locally and send throughout EU but some countries (notably Germany, France and UK) imposed limits which you then had to VAT register.

Some don’t yet, so VAT still paid locally, so sending to those countries from UK is now zero VAT (as far as I can tell) but this may change and they may even backdate VAT charges. I would think sending EU to UK is a similar mess, but it’s only one country sales they are missing out on. Lets not forget places like Norway, which are not EU members but have trade agreements with EU, I think UK forgot about these and may now be WTO rules? Who knows, but it looks like January will be lost to red tape rather than something productive.

went to order from bikediscount.de to find that the UK had been removed from their postage location (I couldn’t find it anyway)

+1 Same here.

Brexit is clearly stupid, but the Brooks article takes the biscuit.

I’ve was after trousers to ride in (nowhere in UK has any in my size) bikeinn are sending them. No German company would even countenance sending to UK.

I don’t think this is a Brexit/UK specific thing, just that Brexit has made it a big issue between us and the EU.

https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/vat/modernising-vat-cross-border-ecommerce_en
It’s an EU thing which we also were part of. We’re now not in the EU but have the same law, which now happens to apply between us and the EU. Basically the law itself is not Brexit related but the consequences are.

Am I making any sense?

(I work (partly) in e-commerce and help sell across the EU and worldwide. I also do the VAT accounts in several countries which was enough of a nightmare before all this.)

Try ordering from a US bike related co that has ops nailed and automates as much as possible when it comes to e-commerce / logistics inc customs and tax. Say Road ID.

The best EU co’s will very quickly adopt this model. Those that haven’t and do will likely do better long term. If they can sort stock accuracy at the same time then we are all better for it. Prices shouldn’t vary by more than a few %.

Who here actually thinks operations and logistics are at there most efficient where products are being manufactured in the Uk, shipped to Italy for distribution, then back to the UK for final sale.

Anyone think haulage / logistics co’s not going to sort this as a service? To much £€ at stake not to.

My view is no need to panic, will get sorted in a couple of weeks. Worst case we order our group sets on Ali Express. For the record I think the whole situation is ridiculous and unnecessary. I am not pro Brexit in any way. Just fed up seeing everyone and their nan running a business blaming either COVID or Brexit for providing poor customer service, stock information and shipping.

Am I making any sense?

You are.

The William Shatners of the world would have been caught out regardless.

We have just implemented earlier at the same time as seizing the massive opportunities presented by being outside the EU.

It will just be extra delay for me waiting for the VAT to be requested from me plus a handling charge before delivery?

Everything I’ve looked at on euro sites since the New Year has said unavailable for delivery to the UK, regardless of price, no mention whether this is temporary or not but it does seem like its going to be a lot of hassle for a lot of businesses, and I doubt they’ll all see it as being worthwhile hassle. I’d love to see that f***wit Boris explain the Brooks situation, a BRITISH company with products still manufactured in BRITAIN that is now able to sell said products everywhere in the world EXCEPT Britain

as seizing the massive opportunities presented by being outside the EU.

which are?

@ossify – I think it’s a temporary thing, not helped by Covid messing worldwide supply chains up.

Looking at the .gov link the big change for us consumers is that the £135 threshold no longer applies. Those companies whose shipments were regularly over this limit were doing this, or very similar, anyway. Those companies whose shipments were below that threshold didn’t have to consider it or, for the few shipments that were over it, ignore it.

@sillysilly – I did a few “test purchases” but didn’t click the buy button. Varied quite a bit as to what the response was: Enlightened Equipment, a US quilt company – no problem; Cumulus, Poland, (down bags and quilts) – no problem; Extremtextil, German fabric/textile seller, no shipping to the UK regardless of value of order. So it’s possible that it’s just German suppliers or that they are registered with HMRC but their carriers have said “Nothing to the UK for the time being” we’ve no room in our distribution centres.

which are?

Sarcasm now attracts zero tariffs.

I’m confused.
If my order arrives have I paid vat or will I have to pay it and a handling fee on UK side? Item for an EU company.

Cost £100.

@ossify so basically UK businesses are basically going to have the same issue when sending to the EU in 6 months time? Hopefully by then there will be a service in place for us small businesses who can’t justify the extra admin versus sales.
The principal behind it is a good idea IMO, the direct Chinese imports were paying to VAT and have subsidised shipping from the Chinese government.

So it’s possible that it’s just German suppliers…

…who have been organised enough to suspend orders ’till they know what the process, costs, and timings are to send to UK customers. Many others will just be taking the orders, and then delaying, amending or cancelling orders once they get around to it.

so basically UK businesses are basically going to have the same issue when sending to the EU in 6 months time?

Yes, but will probably have to pay for the service to each country that adopts the same measures, and will also have to cope with multiple VAT rates. So… the same issue x 27, if they all adopt this approach.

EU companies will need to pay the fee (currently a fairly nominal £1000) and collect UK vat at 20% (depending on the goods). UK companies will have to do something similar for each country in the EU they want to continue to export to…. (I suspect).

so basically UK businesses are basically going to have the same issue when sending to the EU in 6 months time?

Yes, but will probably have to pay for the service to each country that adopts the same measures, and will also have to cope with multiple VAT rates. So… the same issue x 27, if they all adopt this approach.

EU companies will need to pay the fee (currently a fairly nominal £1000) and collect UK vat at 20% (depending on the goods). UK companies will have to do something similar for each country in the EU they want to continue to export to…. (I suspect).

It won’t be that complicated as the VAT OSS (“one stop shop”) will also start then, which means register for VAT in one EU country (pick one at random, the Germans are easy to deal with) and pay all your EU VAT there, telling them which country it should go to, then they will forward it on.

Just count yourselves lucky you aren’t in Northern Ireland. Uk mainland companies and couriers have halted delivery to us as we are somehow still in the EU and EU companies won’t post to us as we are in the UK.

It will be sorted out eventually I hope

That’s pretty neat ossify, I didn’t realise the next step for OSS included imports from outside the EU, I thought it was intra-EU only. Like it. Some useful information from this thread! It’s been a while… Thanks.

It won’t be that complicated as the VAT OSS (“one stop shop”) will also start then, which means register for VAT in one EU country (pick one at random, the Germans are easy to deal with) and pay all your EU VAT there, telling them which country it should go to, then they will forward it on.

That doesn’t sound so bad, it’s still a lot of recording to do though. The other issue is our e-commerce (Squarespace) can only deal with one vat rate and there are many different ones in the EU.

We’ve got six months though…. GET BUSY!

(half joking… I’ve already made changes ready for multiple VAT rates… it’s the value thresholds for VAT collection at source that’s going to be tricky for me to put in place… and tricky as regards customer communication… I’m not helped/restricted by a supplied code base though… you mostly have to just wait for Squarespace to give you the solutions to build upon or use)

This little extract from that OSS outline makes you think though… why couldn’t we do this for UK VAT imports… and why didn’t we agree to extend transition away from winter during a pandemic…?

Due to the practical difficulties created by the measures taken to contain the coronavirus pandemic, the application of the new VAT e-commerce rules is postponed by six months. Thus, the rules will apply as of 1 July 2021 instead of 1 January 2021, giving Member States and businesses additional time to prepare.

I think I read that buying from a small seller on a markeplace (e.g amazon, etsy) puts the VAT collection duties on the marketplace, not the seller.

That’s correct.

I suspect it lot of eu sellers will simply forget the UK market as not worth the hassle

Many will return to it later in the year. Not all.

Who here actually thinks operations and logistics are at there most efficient where products are being manufactured in the Uk, shipped to Italy for distribution, then back to the UK for final sale.

They’re a part of a group based in the EU. I “think” this is their model:

1) Manufacture in the UK.
2) Ship all stock direct to central group hub (so Brooks don’t have any in house logistics).
3) Central hub then ships in bulk back to country distribution.

It’s also possible that the UK distributor is supplied direct from UK, and only Brooks websales are affected. That model makes more sense to me. But if your group business model means all stock must be in a central location for logistics, and only a small part of your manufacturing is in the UK, then the first model is also rational (depending on the balance of UK sales).

I’m not sure how vat works ,all I know is that with our shop we have to work it out and send the money to hmrc.
Why do the suppliers need to get involved?

As I understand it, each person/business in the chain does their own VAT return.

Lots of people getting upset by the Brookes thing. As others said, it’s their parent company’s system. None of any of their saddles will be coming to the UK until they sort it out.

5p says the Brooks model has more to do with transfer pricing cleverness than supply chain optimisation.

Ordered a motorcycle jacket from a German retailer on 1st Jan, only change seems to be that price (£240) was exclusive of vat, only time will tell I guess.

I’m clearly in a minority, as I’ve ordered a pair of Schwalbe tyres (no UK stock) from Tradeinn in Spain., and some motorbike parts from ‘motorcyclespareparts.eu’ based in the Netherlands, and both have emailed me saying the parts should be with me next week.

5p says the Brooks model has more to do with transfer pricing cleverness than supply chain optimisation.

Perhaps – but if so, does the continuance of that model suggest that even with Brexit it’s still the best option?

Why would they transfer price via Italy where VAT / taxes are higher than France / Germany?

My bet is on mini logistic hubs, fulfilment centres and next gen shipping platforms will start to pop up over the EU. Etsy / Shopify and the like will prob build out themselves if no one else does.

you mostly have to just wait for Squarespace to give you the solutions to build upon or use

Waiting for squarespace to implement something is probably not wise. Although their commerce offering has massively improved in the 4 years we’ve been using it they are very US-centric and even beforehand there was no way of showing with VAT and without VAT prices in the store. It’s the small businesses that find these changes and extra admin difficult to implement.