Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 407 total)
  • #MeToo
  • thecaptain
    Free Member

    Jesus geetee you really do enjoy acting like a complete knob at times.

    doris5000
    Full Member

    That’s just as likely to be the result of neuroticism (which women score higher on) than actual threat though.

    Christ on a **** fixie

    ransos
    Free Member

    That’s just as likely to be the result of neuroticism (which women score higher on) than actual threat though.

    But lower in bellendery, if you are anything to go by.

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    CharlieMungus
    Free Member

    Call it out when you see/hear it

    Then engage in a 10 page discussion about it, and how no offence was intended and how offence is taken rather than given or how it’s acceptable amongst certain groups and so will continue to be used there, or any other of a list of excuses

    Edukator
    Free Member

    I know you ask all the people you photograph for permission, GT, but have you considered how the people who refuse feel about the proposition? You have pics of ladies on beaches, down dark alleys, lying on the grass in the park. Personally I wouldn’t walk up to them and ask if they minded me taking their picture, I’d leave them in peace in their own bit of space. You know you’re not a threat, they don’t.

    CharlieMungus
    Free Member

    i think someone said “never say anything that you wouldn’t want to hear in prison”

    CharlieMungus
    Free Member

    ^^^^Call it out when you see/hear it ^^^

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    Hmmm, I read that Guardian list with interest and most of it seems reasonable. Obvious even.

    But… and I realise this probably places me firmly under the “Don’t get defensive when you get called out” rule, but some of it seems to go well beyond treating women as equals and into giving them special privileges, which seems a bit condescending to me:

    “Don’t talk over women” – well that needs a caveat for a start. Talking over anyone is rude, but occasionally it might be necessary. Only doing it to men seems wrong. How about “Don’t talk over people because they are women”?

    “Don’t call women “crazy” in a professional setting.” – so again I’m okay to keep calling men crazy, just not women? What about honest meritocracy? If someone does something I think is crazy then why can’t I call them crazy regardless of their apparent gender?

    “Don’t touch women you don’t know, and honestly, ask yourself why you feel the need to touch women in general.” – huh? That seems a bit overly general and impractical. Should there be a no-go zone around every woman in a crowd? Should I shake men by the hand but not women? If one of those funny European-types is introduced to me and makes to kiss my cheek should I back away if they are female? If I need to get past a woman can I touch her arm near the elbow like I would a man?

    “Learn to read a f*****g room.” – not sure how my lack of social skills makes me a misogynist?

    “Don’t make assumptions about a woman’s intelligence, capabilities or desires based on how she dresses.” – in an ideal world sure. But again, I do that with men, so why not women? Other women certainly do it!

    ransos
    Free Member

    “Don’t call women “crazy” in a professional setting.” – so again I’m okay to keep calling men crazy, just not women? What about honest meritocracy? If someone does something I think is crazy then why can’t I call them crazy regardless of their apparent gender?

    I take your point, but there are some adjectives that usually seem to be used when describing a woman or a girl. For example, you don’t tend to hear men or boys described as “bossy” or “dizzy”.

    CharlieMungus
    Free Member

    and Little Madam or Dopey Mare have no male equivalent.

    doris5000
    Full Member

    “Don’t call women “crazy” in a professional setting.” – so again I’m okay to keep calling men crazy, just not women? What about honest meritocracy? If someone does something I think is crazy then why can’t I call them crazy regardless of their apparent gender?

    it’s loaded because it can be a bit of a dog-whistle term. It’s used by many to imply that women are erratic, hormonal, emotional types who can’t do logic or reason. Which is a popular contention among prats, but if it seeps into popular consciousness it can be one of the many, tiny reasons that women are less likely to get into senior positions etc

    alpin
    Free Member

    and Little Madam or Dopey Mare have no male equivalent

    Little sh1t

    Dopey Tuesday?

    imnotverygood
    Full Member

    Also from the Guardian list:
    If a woman says no to a date, don’t ask her again.
    If I’d followed that one I would not have been married for the last 20 years. List is way too simplistic on the whole.

    uselesshippy
    Free Member

    There is an interesting/scary Instagram account called @dearcatcallers Basically, whenever the young lady is cat called, she takes a selfie with the “gentlemen” in question. She looks mightily pissed off, and the guys seem oblivious.
    Who brought these people up? Where did they learn that this was acceptable? I was taught by both my parents, that you don’t treat other people like this.

    binners
    Full Member

    As with most things in life, it can be summed up by Adam Hills usual expression

    “Don’t be a Dick!”

    Pretty simple, yet so many fall at the first hurdle

    <see above>

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    Or, just imagine she’s the Rock

    the-rock-test-a-hack-for-men-who-dont-want-to-be-accused-of-sexual-harassment

    The bit that grates with me is the inevitability of the comment “men have to own this problem and deal with it”.

    No, I don’t. In the same way I don’t collectively blame women for all being desperate cheapskates every time I get asked “so do you want to buy me a drink?”

    chakaping
    Free Member

    That’s just as likely to be the result of neuroticism (which women score higher on) than actual threat though.

    Just as likely, eh?

    Got the stats for that, you colossal bell end?

    alpin
    Free Member

    @dearcatcallers

    I bet secretly they love it…. Boosts their self-esteem no end.

    But by the same token I used to get wolf whistled by women when working on a roof topless in summer* (admittedly this was a few years ago when I was young and lean). When up London one time this middle aged lady flashed her tits at me with any provocation!

    #metoo

    * I was topless, not the wolf whistling women.

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    Just as likely, eh?

    Got the stats for that, you colossal bell end?

    What that women score higher on neuroticism than men? Yes. Plenty.

    The reaction to that comment is unsurprising. It’s certainly contentious and It might be true in some instances, that is, it might be that a person scoring high on neuroticism might well interpret someone forced to stand close to them on a crowded tube as ‘rubbing up against me’ (which was my specific point). That’s bound to happen and I’m not remotely saying that someone who was actually assualted should blame anyone other than the perpetrato. But that wasn’t really my point.

    My point is this.

    ITS NOT AN ASYMMETRIC PROBLEM!

    Stop making out like it is. Plenty of men, myself included, have been victims of assault and harassment by women, many times. It happens but we all conveniently don’t talk about it and we’re all blythly letting certain parts of society create a narative that this problem is only something that men do to women and that’s a complete falsehood and motivated far less by exposing injustice and far more by power and politics.

    Edukator
    Free Member

    Reading through that Guardian list left me a bit drop jawed. Corporate cultures and office politics vary but that’s a pretty depressing read if represenative of the journalist’s personnal experience. Trust women but assume all men are manipulating, sexist, sex-starved perverts is the sub text. But nearly all the people I meet (men and women) are so close to ‘normal, reasonable, polite, diplomatic, sensitive, thoughtful, caring, honest, trustworthy’ that if someone is pointed out as a pest then the last thing to do is immediatley take sides.

    As mentionned before I dance rock and roll. This involves contact and being careful with what you do with your hands. One of the youngest women, 18 I think, complained of one guy leering and being more touchy than the moves required (he’s three times her age and my 19-year-old descibes his lady friend as “bien foutue”). So should I have created a fuss, called him out, or just observed discretely – and engaged my brain. The guy was in a music group with the girl’s divorcing wife, the girl didn’t seem keen on the guy being around her mother. So if I’d said/done anything would I have been manipulated into giving a good guy a bad reputation or addressed a genuine problem? Nothing said, nothing done, a few years later I’m sure doing nothing was for the best.

    atlaz
    Free Member

    Plenty of men, myself included, have been victims of assault and harassment by women, many times.

    As you love statistics, go and find out how many men make up “plenty” and how many women make up the quantity of “plenty” that they experience. It’s obviously a nuanced situation but, in broad brush strokes, more women than men are victims of this sort of behaviour. Admitting there is a problem with the way women are treated doesn’t diminish anything for anyone else. It’s just bullshit to suggest that you’re somehow lesser because people are rightly pointing out that women get a lot of shit from men.

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    it’s loaded because it can be a bit of a dog-whistle term. It’s used by many to imply that women are erratic, hormonal, emotional types who can’t do logic or reason

    “Can”.

    But likewise it can just be used to say you think someone’s actions are irrational – with no particular reference to their gender.

    Trawl through the Trump thread and I’m sure you’ll find dozens of instances of him being called crazy. (In a “professional setting” he was recently called a moron. 😆 ).

    Perhaps that rule should be more like “Don’t call women “crazy” just because they are women”?
    Or maybe “Don’t insult people based on their gender?”

    Edukator
    Free Member

    ITS NOT AN ASYMMETRIC PROBLEM!

    I think it is actually, I think more women are victims than men.

    sobriety
    Free Member

    #metoo

    I suspect everyone has had unwanted attention of that kind at some point. Just the power dynamic means men shrug it off more easily, as it’s unlikely that it’ll go beyond being groped/jumped on in a nightclub without the person trying it on getting thumped in the chops, it’s somewhat different if you’re a girl and it’s a 6ft+ bloke getting a bit too forward.

    binners
    Full Member

    Why not just carry a shitty stick to beat them off with geetee?

    It must grow tiresome, I’m sure…

    chakaping
    Free Member

    What that women score higher on neuroticism than men? Yes. Plenty.

    The reaction to that comment is unsurprising. It’s certainly contentious and It might be true in some instances, that is, it might be that a person scoring high on neuroticism might well interpret someone forced to stand close to them on a crowded tube as ‘rubbing up against me’ (which was my specific point). That’s bound to happen and I’m not remotely saying that someone who was actually assualted should blame anyone other than the perpetrato. But that wasn’t really my point.

    Either you’re dumber than you usually seem or you think we are.

    I want the stats that show at least 50% of sexual harrassment against women is actually down to them being neurotic and getting the wrong idea. That’s what you claimed in your absurdly offensive post up there.

    ITS NOT AN ASYMMETRIC PROBLEM!

    It literally **** is, get your head out of the sand. I sincerely hope you don’t have children.

    alpin
    Free Member

    For geetee

    km79
    Free Member

    imnotverygood – Member

    Also from the Guardian list:
    If a woman says no to a date, don’t ask her again.
    If I’d followed that one I would not have been married for the last 20 years. List is way too simplistic on the whole. If that rule was enforced the human race would quickly die out. Some of the #MeToo stories are verging on the ridiculous.

    MSP
    Full Member

    Last month there was a story on the BBC about a woman who was raped, as she tried to get help the first person she approached for help also raped her. This week there was a story about a young woman who was victim to 3 separate serious sexual assaults, separate incidents by different attackers within a minute time period.

    I think I am (maybe we all are) starting to realise the scale of the problem is much much much bigger than I could have comprehended. I don’t know what the solution is though, but with the scale of the problem there has got to be a big revision in the way the legal system looks “sexual consent”.

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    I want the stats that show at least 50% of sexual harrassment against women is actually down to them being neurotic and getting the wrong idea.

    I don’t need to since the data that suggests the acts themselves were anything other than innocent but misinterpreted is similarly vague and lacking in robustness. But that’s not the point. Everyone here is arguing that because one side of the problem might be bigger than the other, therefore the smaller side is unimportant. This isn’t a dick swinging contest.

    As for all the other **** face remarks about my comment of being a victim of abuse (binnners Ethan al) go **** yourselves but thanks for proving my point that when a guy stands up and says he’s been the victim of abuse, all you do is throw shit at him. Well done boys well done.

    binners
    Full Member

    Perhaps you’re just being over-sensitive and simply imagined the unwanted attention from the opposite sex, through your own nuerosis?

    Apparently thats more common than you think

    CharlieMungus
    Free Member

    I don’t need to since the data that suggests the acts themselves were anything other than innocent but misinterpreted is similarly vague and lacking in robustness. But that’s not the point. Everyone here is arguing that because one side of the problem might be bigger than the other, therefore the smaller side is unimportant. This isn’t a dick swinging contest.

    The thing is, if men suffered from sexual harassment to such an extent, why is it only brought up as a counter to women raising awareness about their situation.

    Fine, if you believe that sexual harassment of men is a serious issue then bring it up, but in its own time, not when women are making the point.

    geetee1972
    Free Member

    Perhaps you’re just being over sensitive and just imagined the unwanted attention, through your own nuerosis?

    Well that quite common among victims of abuse. So that explains me Binners. What’s your excuse for making shitty comments?

    binners
    Full Member

    Could you just clear something up and define this ‘abuse’ you’re constantly subjected to by the female population for me please?

    What level are we talking here? And by whom?

    chakaping
    Free Member

    Everyone here is arguing that because one side of the problem might be bigger than the other, therefore the smaller side is unimportant.

    You are literally imagining this, I think you must be neurotic.

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    You are literally imagining this, I think you must be neurotic.

    That’s not fair. All we can say is that it is “just as likely” he is imagining it.

    DavidBelstein
    Free Member

    Bit double standards innit to start demanding that a self proclaimed victim of sexual abuse should describe their level of abuse so that you can judge whether to take them seriously or not! Wth!? You can’t discount a person’s abuse claims just cos they said something you don’t like up the thread a bit. Or this is some classic “made you think trolling”, bravo

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    You can’t discount a person’s abuse claims just cos they said something you don’t like up the thread a bit.

    Even if the thing they said up the thread a bit was that we should discount 50% of abuse claims by women because they are neurotic and imagine it?

    binners
    Full Member

    Hmmmmmmmm……. double standards eh?

    You’ve read his posts about all these women who are just neurotic, and the abuse is inagined, right?

    Though when asked what level this ‘abuse’ that he’s constantly subjected too, he’s suddenly gone all coy

    I’m calling BS in an attempt to mitigate the dismissive misogynistic and made-up claptrap he’s been spouting

    EDIT: Tell you what…. let’s forget about his own abuse then,and the obvious hypocrisy involved in bringing it up, and let’s just get him to supply any evidence to justify the total nonsense he’s claiming about equal levels of abuse against men as women. Or that women’s ‘abuse’ is imagined due to their neurosis (tsk….. women, eh?). Something he’s repeatedly failed to do when asked.

    Is that better?

    Edukator
    Free Member

    Your questions are getting close to abuse, Binners. I’m not about to defend GT’s comments but equally I don’t want to know the details of what’s behind them. You’re doing exactly what #MeToo denounces and whether your target is a man or a woman you’re going to far. The parody you did was as far as you needed to go to make your point, going further is abuse.

    This forum isn’t exactly women friendly but it isn’t hostile either. On BikeMagic new female contributors were assumed to be trolls and abused. Two women got throught the initial abuse and became regulars – one then recieved abusive communications of a sexual nature off line.

    GT is socially aware, asks questions of himself and us. I read his contributions with interest, deabte with him on his photography threads, sometimes agree, sometimes disagree. If he says he’s abused by women that’s good enough for me on this thread, no-one is going to suffer from me making a bad call so I’m not going to call him a liar, and don’t believe he is – go back to that Guardian list. He’s being frank, a risky strategy.

Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 407 total)

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