Messy Tradesmen – WWSTD?

Had a new garage door fitted yesterday and the fitters have left quite a mess behind. Loads of random bits of packaging in the garden, quite a few screws and nails on the drive and didn’t even bother to sweep the floor (which was covered in cement dust, wood splinters and random gubbins from the install).

My wife seems to think we should withold some of the payment to cover the time I’ve spent clearing up after them. I think that’s a dick move but am wondering what’s a reasonable response to their slightly shitty work?

Still waiting on them finishing the last bit of trim before they send the invoice.

Sounds pretty standard albeit depressing that it is. I’ve had the same or worse. I doubt witholding payment will go well for you.

Ask them to clean up when they do the last bit of trim and they might pick up 75% of the crap 😀

Sounds sloppy benefit of the doubt – when they fit the last bit of trim they will tidy up. Unlikely mind you.

Some (most ime) are the messiest people, anything they don’t want/need/use is just dropped on the ground, the amount of plastic builders waste I’ve had to pick up! Then there’s all their food and drink packaging, everything just dumped, and then, if they can be bothered they’ll just about bury it.

“Not my job mate” attitude really annoys me!

When I had my RSD fitted they had to trim some of my flashings to make them fit. They left the very sharp spiralled waste bits on the floor where the doggo likes to roam.
Didn’t hold any money back , but I did express my displeasure using colourful language. They did apologise. Its little things like that that stop you recommending them to others.

I’ve often speculated there must be modules in ‘how to be a poor communicator’ and ‘how to push people exactly 99% as far as they’ll go without flipping’ in trades apprenticeships.

I would wait until they return and ask them to tidy up face to face.

I was chatting to my neighbour about this subject just the other day, he was a sparky and basic rules were clean workspace and clean afterwards.  I’ve possibly been fortunate that when we have had work done the trades have all tidied up. If one didn’t I would be giving them a warning that money would be with held if they didn’t clean their shit up.  Fundamentaly it’s part of what you are paying for, to not tidy up is just lazy

As a tradesman myself, I feel I leave most of my customers houses tidier than when I arrived.  If we’ve had a skip I go back with my jet wash if needed and make sure the driveway is clean.  I wouldn’t chuck my food waste on my own drive and garden, I certainly wouldn’t consider chucking it on someone else’s!  Completely unacceptable IMO.

We did once have a customer vacuum his driveway after we’d gone after fitting his kitchen and took the ‘rubbish’ to the kitchen company I was subbing for to complain (and to try and get a discount).  They turned him away telling him the sand was supposed to be between the driveway blocks!

Trade here also and agree totally with blazing saddles and his MO

Sadly it is the standard in my experience. When I am on big sites, rarely these days, I am normally shocked by the mess left behind.

Ime to succeed as a self employed trade you just need to respond to enquiries, even if it’s a no. Be polite and tidy up. That’s it, you’ll never be short of work. Assuming you are competent 😀

Thanks for the suggestions. Can’t get them to tidy up as I’ve done it – need to use the garage and driveway so can’t have all that stuff lying around.

I’ll have a word about the time I’ve spent doing their job for them and see what they say.

Oh, and worth adding, we’ve had a fair bit of work done recently and everyone else has done a great job.

I’d give the workmen the opportunity to clean up on their last visit (take photos). If they refuse or give you verbal or do another shitty job then I’d approach someone in their office, preferably a sales manager. Still no joy then withhold a sum based on a labourer’s hourly rate of about £12 an hour. If they still are shitty with you then go to social media.

It’s the first and last impressions that count, so leaving a state behind gives the client a bad impression despite how good a job they did.

Sounds petty but I’d not be happy if my site guys did this on a project, as it reflects badly on my company and myself as it’s my project.

Note:- you’re well within your rights to ask for a waste transfer note, if more clients did this we might see less fly tipping 😕

Although been awhile now since I’ve had work done they’ve always left it spotless. Get them to tidy it up when the come back.

If the actual work has been done to a good standard I’d just pay and move on, but just mention it. As is a family saying ‘you do get this‘!

IME plumbers are the messiest trade – not had a tidy one yet! 🤣

Because they don’t a shit, thick as ****, couldn’t give a toss, someone else’s problem etc….etc…

As above, I leave it cleaner than it was before I started. It is really important to my clients and only takes 10 minutes to bag up all the rubbish and run round with the vacuum.
Leaving a mess is definitely a sign that your standards could be better.

In my last house I had the builders in to do a large extension. All went well and the finished job looked good, builders invoice paid completion certs issued. About six months later I went under the floor to add cabling for a double socket. What a mess. Cable strewn everywhere, food packaging, disposable cups, bits of insulation etc. prior to the extension it had been immaculate, just a bit  dusty. I couldn’t believe anyone would leave that mess. I have since sold the house and moved away so not my problem anymore but it tells me a lot about modern standards of tidiness.

As long as the door was ok i’d be happy enough, but i would say, just for this forum, withold some of the payment and state the reason, so we can at least get an update to this thread in a few weeks 🤣

Had a house built next to us – same builders who built our house but the majority of trades were subbies – we spent 9 months of picking their rubbish out of our garden and beyond. We had a puppy and quite a few times we were pulling bits of plastic out of her mouth that had blown into our garden. A few times, after I’d filled a bin bag’s worth I’d go and stuff it in their cement mixer. They laid new tarmac all the way down the road, the guys doing the rendering washed out the cement mixer and spilled all the slurry out onto the ground and then drove their van through it, leaving tyre tracks all the way up the road 🤦‍♂️

Because they don’t a shit, thick as ****, couldn’t give a toss, someone else’s problem etc….etc…

They may have fewer GCSE’s than me, but all the guys on the tools that I know have better cars, bigger houses and shorter days than me. Thick they are not.

Tradesmen are a representative cross-section of the general population – some are considerate, respectful and behave reasonably; others aren’t and don’t give a toss.

What would I do? Have a word if/when they return to finish the job – explain you had a reasonable expectation they would clear up and not leave it for you.

As for withholding a (nominal) sum, I wouldn’t but would  ask them to reduce the final invoice – don’t ask, don’t get.

That’s what voids and cavities are for…… having a house that was built in about 1780 with bits added in 1820,  the stone wall infill was interesting.

As the above tradesmen have said, it’s absolutely shocking how a lot of them just don’t care. I’ve just spent several weeks on a job with some of the most atrocious standards I’ve ever witnessed. Imagine having a kitchen floor re-tiled where sds drills were used to remove old tiles and adhesive. Literally no effort was made to contain the mess and it was an open plan kitchen / sitting room/ hallway. All the surrounding furniture, all of the glasses and kitchen ware, all covered in a thick layer of dust. Two wooden floors that I’d recently sanded and oiled ruined. In total ive filled 22 holes where light fixtures and sockets were put in the wrong place. So far three tyres have been trashed from dropped screws. A velux window was removed last week as it didn’t seem obvious that the lead flashing needed to go under beforehand, they cut around it with a multi tool and let all the debris fall into the freshly finished bathroom, all over the clients towels, soaps and toothbrushes. I’m ranting now….this isn’t half of the list… thanks for listening

I went under the floor to add cabling for a double socket. What a mess

Every time I lift a floorboard I’m reminded that at some point our house was rewired and replastered and all of the old plaster and cable was left under the floor. Like a couple of inches + of plaster chunks and dust with cable, screws, nails, coke cans, crisp packets all mixed in.

he was a sparky and basic rules were clean workspace and clean afterwards.

In my experience the sparkies are the worst at leaving bits everywhere!

I’m a chippy and often had to deal with the mess that plasterers and sparkies left when second fixing.

To the op, just be a little wary of pissing them off. Have worked alongside some total nutters…. One guy didn’t get paid and went in smashed his hammer through all his work (instead of removing the doors and holding them to ransom). Another pierced a can of expanding foam under the clients Mercedes.

I saw a sparky with a hoover recently, I asked him if he was feeling ok

A friend had a bit of landscaping done in their small garden.

When she came to put some plants in months later, she found a motherload of rubbish buried about a foot down under a flower bed. Broken spade, various food and works packaging, general detritus and some big bits of concrete… Even though they had a skip.🙃

i find the threat of not paying them is the best way to deal with poor workmen.

perfect timing this thread.

2 week ago, i phoned a reputable asbestos removal company, for a price for the removal of my garage roof and the ivy partly covering it.

price was ok for me. so they got the job. booked in for a week last thursday. the 4th.  nobody turned up.i got a message at 4pm about a emergency they had to deal with. ok no worries.

so friday 5th was booked. got to 1pm, nobody. i phoned to see what was happening. someone on the way. 4pm abloke turns up. did 2 hours in the rain.gets most of the roof off. says he will be back tomorrow. sat 6th.

turns up at 1pm just as we are going out. i got home late, so sunday woke up to big pile of ivy on my lawn and 3 big bags of waste in garage.   good thing is roof is now gone.

monday, no show to remove waste. tuesday message with a excuse, but will be with you tomorrow.

wednesday no show, thursday no show.

so yesterday i was quite angry with the situation. phoned the office, answer phone. left a message as i was going riding.   message was.  if the pile of ivy on my lawn, and the 3 bags of waste in my garage are not gone by 3pm when i get home, you will not receive a single penny for the job.

got home at 3pm.   lawn clear, waste gone, garage swept out, no mess at all.   bloke was still in van on land at side of my house. he wound down the window and all smiley says ‘ all done now.all clean and tidy’.     i replied ‘ yes mate, only a week late.  and as for paying, i will pay you in a week, unless any emergencies arise’.   he didnt reply.

I saw a sparky with a hoover recently, I asked him if he was feeling ok

I’ve heard he is picking up nicely…

It’s funny because the amount of time I’ve had customers stop me when I start cleaning up, they do know my hourly rate and prefer to do the tidying themselves.

We bought our house from an older divorcing couple that had recently renovated it.  The chap was a builder and we gather he’d done most of the work himself.

It’s been 7 years and I’m still finding his empty pint cans of Stella and red wine bottles tucked away in odd places.

My uncle runs a medium price double glazing firm.

He has his fitters clean and hoover up as he says thats what gets him recommendations.

No one really knows the difference between windows, but everyone can tell you about a ruined carpet/ curtain/ precious nicknack.

If you are happy with their work pay promptly.

If you are unhappy with their cleaning don’t reccomend them.

It’s not like they are going to be back to do your second/ third garage door.

The plumbers we use have even known to wash their cups after brew (no doubt on our dime). No excuse for leaving a mess.

It’s been 7 years and I’m still finding his empty pint cans of Stella and red wine bottles tucked away in odd places.

TBF, my GF used to found wine bottles and quite a lot of weed under the sofa when we moved out.

My Spanish girlfriend asked me if it was the normal arrangement in UK to leave all the mess after doing a job. Not saying it was right or wrong but just trying to get an understanding that tidying up definitely wasn’t included.

I told her we’re usually ok with cleaning on the basis they’ve turned up and done an acceptable job.

Had the same with various bits of work on the house. Its slightly annoying but if the actual work is good I then wouldn’t be too fussed. I’m a decorator and it can be a big part of my job TBH, even when the client insists on cleaning up I’ll have a run round with a vac/sweeping brush on domestic work (chance to check for rouge splashes too) I’ve worked on some shithole sites though for sure!

I might be wrong but strictly speaking shouldn’t trades have a waste transfer licence for removing any crap from site? Could well be the reason for leaving it if they’ve been caught out before.

I don’t think you need a waste license for removing waste that is the product of your own work/demolision? I’m an installer for a large company and none of us need a waste license.

Unless it’s asbestos or your are being paid purely to remove waste i.e hiring out skips.  I was given paperwork for asbestos a roofer removed but I don’t think it was for removal from site, I think it was too prove that it ended up in his asbestos skip .

As a trades person.. If you transport any waste in your van you need a waste carriers licence.

It also depends on what type of waste it is and where the waste is being disposed.  For example.. my council run waste site charges £3 per black bag and you need a waste carriers licence for them to process it and give you a waste transfer disposal note.

Do tradesmen price in the 30 mins of cleaning time at the end of the day when they quote?  Most trades I have used tend to be fairly tidy, but I usually still need to vacuum more thoroughly or wipe down, but if I am doing that, I am not paying someone else to do that!

I do wonder in the apprenticeships, where the business and organisation skills are taught!  I had a recommended tradesmen come out measure up etc for a reasonable size job, only never to be seen or heard from again!

I sympathise with those of you who have had arrangements with tradesmen to turn up and then be let down.  How hard is it to phone and say sorry, I am caught up with another job, I will be back in touch to re-arrange!? Rather than wait in all day !