Gilead here we come.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-61898437

This is why religious people should be dosqulified from offoce ( not specifically this case but in general) because they are unable to perform their duties because they do not answet to the people but hold whatever backward creed higher than their duty to serve

At 8 months a foetus is viable. It would not be an abortion. It would be a cesarean

Predictably Tory peers, pro brexit think tanks and even Tory MP celebrating this

Scott Benton, recently made an FCDO PPS, appears to be the first MP to support the Supreme Court's decision, sharing the Republican Party's tweet welcoming the decision. pic.twitter.com/JEiF7YQsaN

— Henry Dyer (@Direthoughts) June 24, 2022

https://twitter.com/JN75313083/status/1540399885165420545?t=52LasFuCDli9WV2pbvdJpw&s=19

A great victory for US democracy.

Roe v Wade: US Supreme Court overturns landmark abortion ruling https://t.co/ZTbakbxnBW

— Lord Moylan (@danielmgmoylan) June 24, 2022

Fantastic to hear that Roe v Wade has been overturned!

No doubt the left will riot tonight.

More importantly when will we overturn abortion laws in the UK? In some cases you can legally abort a baby up until birth – which is evil.

It’s time to reignite the fight for life.

— Turning Point UK 🇬🇧 (@TPointUK) June 24, 2022

Creating a caring and supportive environment for women to make decisions is pro life

Yes it is odd how these people who are allegedly anti abortion are also generally anti sex education and access to contraceptives.
If you want to lower abortion rates as opposed to putting lives at risk in back streets or, for the wealthy (aka the republicans mistresses and daughters), going to somewhere with more sensible laws then the best approach is making sure teenagers are properly educated and have access to contraceptives.

@dissonance Yet another area that Netherlands leads the way!

85% of us citzens support abortion.

Make no mistake. These religious zealots are after our rights as well. My particular issue is the right to a good death. Its 99% religious bigots opposing this hidden behind a secular acreen.

Religion has no place in politics and they can eff off with thier attempts to make me fit their backwards superstition

We bemoan Johnson and the tories a lot, but even they would struggle to do what the republicans can in the US, even when they’re not in power!

But by eroding our right to protest, making it harder to vote, and creating a retrogressive bill-of-rights, and making the executive more powerful than parliament, we are already on the road to the tories being able to do what we see happening in the US

we are already on the road to the tories being able to do what we see happening in the US

100% agree

In theory yes. But are you OK with an abortion performed at 8 months?

It wasn’t me you asked, but I would be ok with that. 9 months even.
As a species we are not suffering with infertility. (Separate from the issue of individuals wishing for children but unable to have them)

Forcing people to have unwanted babies is bad for all involved.

How much does it cost to give birth in the US a these days?

At 8 months the fetus is viable and it would be a live birth unless the fetus is alreadt dead

Exactly, abortions, by their very nature are of pre viable pregnancies. Talk of 8 month abortions, of killing ‘babies’ etc, is deliberately emotive and inaccurate language designed to create an emotional response in people who haven’t got a full understanding, or to dog whistle those who have already fallen for the bigotry.

Don’t tolerate the bullshit. Abortions are principally performed on pre viable pregnancies, and are not ‘Killing babies’ or ‘tearing babies from the wombs of their mothers’ or any other emotive, loaded clap trap.

Everything about it stinks. Right from the appointment of those judges- Kavanaugh said, under oath,

“It is important precedent of the Supreme Court that has been reaffirmed many times. It is not as if it is just a run of the mill case that was decided and never been reconsidered, but Casey specifically reconsidered it, applied the stare decisis factors, and decided to reaffirm it. That makes Casey a precedent on precedent.” Gorsuch said that if he was asked to overturn Roe he’d walk out the door. Roe was obviously in their sights from the word go, and they lied their way through the confirmation hearings to get there.

poah
Free Member

well no they didn’t. They said that the legality of abortion is state not federal. That means it is up to the individual states to choose.

Therefore striking down abortion rights. You’re an intelligent person, do you really think what you posted is true?

One key difference between the USA and Afghanistan is that the yanks are more tolerant of drink-driving.

How many foetuses per year are ripped from the womb as a result of DUI’s?

If they’re so pro-life, why not devote more effort towards making Americas roads safer?

It is basically two America’s as stated earlier in this thread, you have those states that are true red states that will enact this immediately, they already have it drafted and ready to go, that is how sure they were it was coming, the seeds planted by Trumps administration and just awaiting this supreme court judgement.

The blue states will never enact this, they will keep their pro-abortion laws, i can see a lot of people moving states in the coming years, probably what the red states want, less people who aren’t aligned to their principles.

It’s sad to see that in the US, after several horrific gun massacres, they can’t enact any new laws, yet with this issue, they already have it all ready to go, the one thing we do have in the UK is separation of powers that are actually still separated, how the US can pretend their branches are separate is an absolute joke, their judiciary is aligned politically to their parties and their houses, i know we have right wing nutters in the UK who scream and shout for this stuff, but they haven’t got us in that kind of problem yet.

Personally, I think it’s all just a labour-supply issue.
These unwanted kids will hardly be earmarked for Yale.

Which crappy sector of the economy is facing a shortfall in staff, 20 years down the line? Hmmm.

But are you OK with an abortion performed at 8 months?

I’m not likely to ever have an abortion.

Are there scenarios where a woman might chose a near term abortion? When the alternative is a still born birth, or the choice is between one death or possibly two, then that horrible choice might have to be made. I feel nothing but sympathy for any woman in that situation.

But taking rare and difficult scenarios as reasoning for restricting the rights of a whole swath of the population isn’t for me. I’ll pass on what you’re offering, thanks.

All the talk of 8 month abortions is just weird, currently in the US you have most states allowing first trimester abortions and then rules for second, and even more for third.

Honestly, how many women go 8 months and then suddenly think “oh wait a minute”, they tend to think adoption, not abortion, I also doubt there are many medical professionals who would contemplate such a procedure due to the Hippocratic oath.

Being reported that in Wisconsin, cancer treatments that would risk the life of an unborn child have been ordered stopped with immediate effect.

Of course it doesn’t end here. Clarence Thomas is already saying that the next targets are contraception access and same-sex intercourse. People are picking up on the gay marriage comments but he specifically mentioned Lawrence vs Texas, which is the ruling that decriminalised sodomy.

He’s basically Alito’s glove puppet, nothing he says is in isolation. What these have in common is that they’re all due process precedents. The right to privacy (Griswold) is another that he specifically named. And an absolute shit-ton of precedent relies on that right to privacy.

The written decision says that this ruling is specific to abortion, but the legal argument that it rests on applies just the same to literally every legal right that wasn’t already commonplace when the constitution was written. It undermines their data protection act completely, it applies equally to miscegenation laws… The law that gave Clarence Thomas the right to marry his seditionist wife was entirely informed and largely justified by the due process clauses.

I usually get angry about stuff, my reaction to this was different… i was overtaken by deep deep sadness.

Supreme Court twinned with the Taliban.

I have always been on the fence about abortion. It is probably a timing thing but even that doesn’t really add up as still killing what is a human being in early stages. Clearly it sounds a lot worse to kill a baby at 8 months than at 8 weeks but that same baby is still a baby that would be born at some time later.
I can see the rights the of woman, why should they have to go through with a pregnancy they don’t want (especially in the extreme cases, i.e. rape, where they really didn’t want it) but killing a baby just because you don’t want it also doesn’t seem great. Can I kill a 4 year old because I don’t want it anymore?

The thing that stuck me is that as many as 26 states have trigger laws waiting for this. It’s an astonishingly stupid act of harm to women. All the evidence shows that there is a need for safe abortion. All that will happen is removal of the word safe. The will kill people.

There are a HUGE number of reasons people get abortions. It’s a hugely emotive subject. In the UK you can legally have an abortion upto 10 weeks and 6 days. So what’s that’s under 3 months.

I would assume anything over that limit would require a court judgement as that limit is set in law.

But let’s say you cannot afford to support a child either financially, emotionally or in some other way. Surely it’s better for all involved, including the fetus, that people aren’t forced to have a baby that’s not wanted. Worst case scenario the baby would be unsafe and at massive risk. Best case scenario it’s put into the adoption system, which I would imagine, like the rest of government or locally funded services, is falling apart at the seams.

Either way people should be allowed to make that choice, without prejudice.

Also Thomas the conservative judge who has a hinted that same sex marriage, contraceptives and anal sex may also be the next targets, cannot surely be blind to that fact that the sorts of folks who would support these changes will also be keen on targeting other areas such as interracial marriages. He is black and his wife is white.

It makes so little sense that it rally could be described as madness

@v8ninety

So rather than leaving it up to wvery woman do decide if the cast majority are under 13 weeks we can have laws outlawing late term abortions aside from risk to life of mother etc.

I don’t think we disagree much but leaving it entirely to the choice of the woman regardless is going too far.

I would really like to see an abortion movement akin to #metoo. All those women in the lives of the politicians who have had abortions standing up and saying they had one, they benefited from a safe procedure. Would surely be embarrassing for quite a few?

leaving it entirely to the choice of the woman regardless is going too far.

This is their bodies we’re talking about. Who else should get a say?

the one thing we do have in the UK is separation of powers that are actually still separated,

We MUST NOT be complacent about this. We are dancing along the edge of the same slippery slope.

The current Tory party would throw everything they have behind an ant-abortion movement if they thought it gave them one more day in power or another pound in their pockets.

We must not be fooled by any of their lies, the ONLY reason this isn’t policy is because the people supporting it haven’t lined Johnson’s pockets enough.

Yet.

There’s a world of difference between electively aborting an 8 week foetus and 8 month baby. The first is totally unviable without the mother, many babies are born at 8 months and are completely healthy.

Anyone conflating the two is doing so disingenuously, Biden was right this is a sad day for America and all about me, it’s various intolerant bigots feeling good about themselves because they’ve managed to stop some one from doing something that doesn’t affect them personally. Probably already been said but there is a frightening overlap between the anti abortionists and the gun nuts. Can’t kill an unviable foetus but it’s fine to enable an unstable 18 year old to go on a killing spree.

Is anyone really surprised by this? I mean really? The US has a track record of retrograde decisions that have originated from their religious zealotry.

Unfortunately, I think the worst is yet to come.  Biden is the death knell and if him and Harris try for a second term, I suspect it’ll be clear road to the White House for Trump.

I’ve always said the US is a developing nation, with third world infrastructure.

The real problem is that this won’t change the number of abortions. It we’ll reduce the number of safe abortions. I bet the back street clicks are setting up shop as we speak in many states

Is anyone really surprised by this? I mean really?

Not in the slightest. It’s a nation run by nutters. I feel for all the normal folk that live there. The worlds premiere backwards nation.

The real problem is that this won’t change the number of abortions. It we’ll reduce the number of safe abortions

This is the tragic real world result, as my 15 year old daughter has been pointing out all week.

Not sure how that’s going down at her Catholic school…..

Probably already been said but there is a frightening overlap between the anti abortionists and the gun nuts. Can’t kill an unviable foetus but it’s fine to enable an unstable 18 year old to go on a killing spree.

Those same gun nuts that say you can’t take away their constitutional rights?

argee Full Member
It is basically two America’s as stated earlier in this thread, you have those states that are true red states that will enact this immediately, they already have it drafted and ready to go, that is how sure they were it was coming, the seeds planted by Trumps administration and just awaiting this supreme court judgement.

The blue states will never enact this, they will keep their pro-abortion laws, i can see a lot of people moving states in the coming years, probably what the red states want, less people who aren’t aligned to their principles.

Then there are states that lie somewhere between blue and red, but which thanks to the Republican party’s highly effective gerrymandering skills have will be able to enact strong anti abortion legislation anyway. And it’s not like that even the reddest states contain nothing but frothing fundamentalists, but they seem to be the ones in charge anyway.

This tweet nails it for me

Food shortages. Gas high as hell. Healthcare higher than heaven itself. Covid is still alive. Ain’t no affordable anyting. Mass shootings happening weekly but you want us to have a baby. Gtfoh

— 🧜🏾‍♀️ (@kellie_priceles) June 24, 2022

My lad went to the World Scout Jamboree in America in 2019, and he was clear there were two distinct types of Americans, and he couldn’t see how the two could coexist

Thank god that’d never happen here, hey?

In theory yes. But are you OK with an abortion performed at 8 months?

Aside from it being an utterly ludicrous question,

If the only alternative was to carry to term resulting in the death of both child and mother then yes, I’d be OK with that. Would you not?

This is their bodies we’re talking about. Who else should get a say?

</thread>

A comment from a highly intelligent (yes they exist) American friend of mine:

Strictly speaking we didn’t ban abortion- we just abolished the right to it.
From a court where 5 of the 9 justices were appointed by presidents who lost the popular vote. And where 2/3 of Americans don’t believe abortion should be illegal.
Honestly, I think the actual answer is that they hate actual, born children.

That was in reply to a post I made on Faceache broadly saying what Stumpyjon just said:

America, you know I love you, but we need to talk. Your solution to shootings in schools is “more guns” and now you’ve just banned abortion.
Are you scared you’re going to run out of targets or something?
If I were a betting man, I’d wager my house that the Venn diagram of pro-lifers and pro-NRA tends towards a perfect bloody circle.