s.u.r. – agreed on normal icebreaker tops. I’ve got one that’s lasted better than others, though.

These are a bit different, we’ll see what they’re are like when they get here:

http://uk.icebreaker.com/en/merinoloft-helix-reversible-shirt/102666002M_WS.html

Not saying it’s right, but just that their own marketing seems to be working against them.

Is it? Do you know how well they’re doing?

Not saying it’s right, but just that their own marketing seems to be working against them. doesn’t work for me

perhaps?

Is it? Do you know how well they’re doing?

Of course not. Just trying to explain why people might be finding the price difficult to accept…. which is what we were discussing (I think)

As others have said, the STW demographic isn’t afraid to spend a bit of money on expensive man-trinkets – including me, yet there seems to be a strong reaction to the price.

Edit:

Not saying it’s right, but just that their own marketing seems to be working against them. doesn’t work for me
perhaps?

Pffff….. ok, imagine that I wrote “in my opinion” before the beginning of my post.

website needs more axes

Yep, I’ve got a Mountain Shirt. Warm, waterproof and looks fantastic. Yes, expensive but you only need to look at the quality.

No, not proper waterproof. Thick wool, wouldn’t want to be out all day in the rain in it!!!

So when you say waterproof, it’s not at all. Just thick like a donkey jacket is waterproof for example 🙂

As above I don’t have a beard, nor am I swayed by ‘artisan’ marketing, so not target market.

I’d imagine with one of these shirts, those trousers that aren’t made where they used to be, a pair of those hobnail boots and of course the handcrafted belt you would totally rock the look.

I do like nice things though, but some of this stuff is just pure hype. And I don’t get all this ‘it’ll last a lifetime’ thing, the majority of people who buy this stuff are swayed by marketing and ‘fashion’, you’re not going to be wearing it in 5 years time.

……I’d rather have one winter walking jacket than 5-6 jackets that have been made in Bangladesh and flown over, and then disposed of (partly on the basis that the cost is so low, there’s little incentive to repair)

I don’t have five or six winter jackets on the go.
I’ve had two walking shells and two cycling ones over the last ten years.
They get repaired and reproofed, tend to last quite a while before they become uneconomic to repair.

And realistically, you’re not just going to have one, are you?
You’ll have a spare, or keep the nice one for best, or fancy a change, or fashion etc.

If you’ve only had the one MTB for 10 years and are still happy with it, your argument may hold water.
🙂

ok, imagine that I wrote “in my opinion” before the beginning of my post.

Nope! Too late! 😀

I don’t have five or six winter jackets on the go.

sorry if not clear, I meant 5-6 jackets over a time frame, rather than all at the same time. whereas the point of things like the McNair shirt or HebTroCo trousers is that they last.

You’re kidding yourself on if you think you’re still going to be wearing moleskin trousers and a wool shirt in 5 or 10 years time.

Ok, five or six walking jackets would last me 30 years, on average and I pay about £100 a pop for good, discounted end of year models.

Thirty years is a long time to be wearing a piece of outdoor kit.
Would you really be happy wearing the same jacket for a third of your life?

And finding a handmade, locally sourced walking jacket capable of the same performance and utility over that timeframe is going to be a task in itself.

These are a bit different, we’ll see what they’re are like when they get here:

http://uk.icebreaker.com/en/merinoloft-helix-reversible-shirt/102666002M_WS.html

Thanks, Ned; that’s another £100 less to spend on bike bits…

I have a couple of Icebreaker tops and can’t understand why they fall apart so quickly, while Finisterre stuff, frinstance, doesn’t.

I love the cut of Finisterre stuff, and love their business aims. But I’ve had a few duff products (merino-lined hoody that sheds merino, merino base layer that doesn’t hold its shape as well as it should) and they’re charging more for a silver Primaloft filled jacket than Alpkit do for for a gold.

Slightly off topic, but I also once turned up at a London pop-up to find it closed because the manager had buggered off somewhere. I contacted head office, explained I had travelled from the Isle of Wight specifically to buy a jacket for the better half, but got little sympathy. I have since heard the manager was a temp and also a platinum grade idiot (turned out he’s an associate of my sister’s friend – small world) but I felt hacked off by Finisterre’s response, especially as I was a previous customer.

As said, I like the company (the above excepted, and other than it now has ties to an investment company) and I live in an Incus bodywarmer, but they aren’t perfect.

I love the cut of Finisterre stuff, and love their business aims. But I’ve had a few duff products (merino-lined hoody that sheds merino, merino base layer that doesn’t hold its shape as well as it should) and they’re charging more for a silver Primaloft filled jacket than Alpkit do for for a gold.

I’d agree with that, I bought three merino t-shirts last month and sent two back as the front panel of the t-shirt had the weave running completely squint.

That’s a shame. Looks like the new partners have buggered aboy with the business model. My base layers are nearly 5 years old and still nigh on perfect.
I like stuff that lasts.

Would you really be happy wearing the same jacket for a third of your life?

yeah…I’ve a pair of jeans 20 years old, and a belt (25+), some shoes, and quite a few bits of outdoor equipment (base layers and a pertex)

The Yorkshire war cry was my first response on finding out the price of these lovely artisan garments.

Are mountain shirts a thing? Like mountain bikes – something that can be used in lots of places and very very occasionally up a mountain?

You’re all just jealous because the people who wear these shirts can read the land better than you,and know what the weathers going to do better than you,and whittle a nice flute for the kids better than you,they wear ‘mountain shirts’.

Would you really be happy wearing the same jacket for a third of your life?

I have a Burton baselayer that is @1996 vintage and some Mountain Equipment Ultrafleece salopettes @1993 vintage. They are relegated to canoe duties however, as they are not exactly fashionable… 8)

I have a Burton baselayer that is @1996 vintage and some Mountain Equipment Ultrafleece salopettes @1993 vintage. They are relegated to canoe duties however, as they are not exactly fashionable.

I have north face eg tech fleece in yellow and black from the mid 1990’s, relegated to camping duties only. Again not a fashion item, however the majority of people paying £300 for a ‘mountain shirt’ won’t be wearing it up a mountain.

nickc – Member
Would you really be happy wearing the same jacket for a third of your life?
yeah…I’ve a pair of jeans 20 years old, and a belt (25+), some shoes, and quite a few bits of outdoor equipment (base layers and a pertex)

Good on you, but base layers?!
🙂

I still think it’s a ridiculous price for a woollen shirt, though.
I can see the point with Buffalo shirts, quality shoes, decent luggage, camera lenses, HiFi etc.
I can just see the point of Barbour jackets, which tend to work out cheaper than constant replacements and are supposed to look knackered.
And as someone who has had the same MTB for over ten years, even bikes.
😀

But I’m struggling to see what this offers over and above the alternatives.
If fashion, then you wouldn’t want to be using it outdoors.
If outdoors, then cheaper and more versatile would seem to be a better option, surely?

If fashion, then you wouldn’t want to be using it outdoors.

Why can’t it be both?

Baselayers…I know right?! 😆 I’m not that smelly though.

Because it will get dragged up crags, covered in sheep shit, slept in, stood by open fires in, used to mop up unspeakable things, rolled down trails with you in it etc etc.

Ever seen a duvet jacket in a climbing hut that didn’t have Gaffa tape holding it together?

And you will make Natalie cry.
And she’s lovely.

But I’m struggling to see what this offers over and above the alternatives.

Unfortunately part of the cost will be using British labour and small runs. China’s done such a good job churning out big runs of good kit at cheap prices for so long that we’re drawn into that whole ‘I could get it for half the price’ mentality. Yeah, you probably could, but it does raise questions over the materials used, the conditions of the workers and how ethical and sustainable the product and business model is.

Buying British means the manufacturer pays British wages and British overheads, which don’t tend to be cheap. To make it worthwhile the product needs to be bloody good to justify the cost. And the company is just a phone call away.

Looks like the new partners have buggered aboy

Catholic clergy new business model?

And that will hardly flatter poor Natalie now will it!

Because it will get dragged up crags, covered in sheep shit, slept in, stood by open fires in, used to mop up unspeakable things, rolled down trails with you in it etc etc.

right….sometime soon a point will hove in over the horizon. 😆

You’re either saying it’s too expensive to use (my waterproof from mission workshop was about the same money and I use that for mountain biking, it already has patches on it, despite that, it’s still cut nicely, still has brilliant waterproofing and I look soooo cool wearing it 😆 ), or it’s too nice? (or some random subjective measure like that) in which case, what? I “shouldn’t care” about that because it’s outdoors? I’m a bloke? Some other random reason?

Here’s the thing, I care about cut, material, all that jazz, and accept that the trade off for that is that it’s more expensive, ergo I tend towards stuff with a longer life span which also tends to have the handy side effect of being able to stand up to rigorous use quite well, and either save or grit my teeth according to how close to pay day it is…

Isn’t it great we all have stuff available to us to suit what we need? What a time to be alive.

If outdoors, then cheaper and more versatile would seem to be a better option, surely?

Ever seen a duvet jacket in a climbing hut that didn’t have Gaffa tape holding it together?

And exactly how versatile is a down jacket? It’s very good at a) keeping you warm when you still and it’s cold and dry and b) keeping you warm when you’re active and it’s extremely cold and dry.

Not cheap either! 😀

Edit: And the reason they’ve always got gaffa tap on is that they’re built with fragile fabrics so they pack down easy – more points off for single-minded design aims over versatility and durability!

😀

I “shouldn’t care” about that because it’s outdoors? I’m a bloke? Some other random reason?

Here’s the thing, I care about cut, material, all that jazz, and accept that the trade off for that is that it’s more expensive…..longer life span…..stand up to rigorous use quite well…

So do I, but more from a practical, rather than a fashion point of view.
If something works well, fits well and lasts I’m not particularly bothered about how it looks, especially outdoors.

And value IS important to me.
I dislike any kind of scene tax and will not pay for a certain label or the exclusivity that brings if equally well made, functional alternatives are available.
As you say, we’re all different and we see utility in different ways.

I’ve just gone and had a look at those McNair, and Swandri shirts. If you tell me the Swandri are ugly i’ll agree wholeheartedly. If you tell me Swandri are ugly but McNair aren’t I’ll think you are deluded to be frank.

If you tell me Swandri are ugly but McNair aren’t I’ll think you are deluded to be frank.

It’s all about the marketing, mcnair says, hipster, beards, axes and shit, the other just says outdoors.

What ‘quality advice’ do you need buying a shirt?

Well for going out into the hills, waterproof is good. Which these shirts aren’t. Not too warm either because walking up big hills gets a bit hot – which these shirts are apparently.
So, maybe ideal for either sitting around in the pub trying to look like you belong in the mountains, or being being in the mountains successfully looking like you belong in the pub

I’ve also never found buttons work well on outdoor kit. They invariably get pulled off with rucksack straps, or bashed off stuff.

I dislike any kind of scene tax

interesting phrase, what does that mean?

They sure are expensive and I personally wouldn’t buy one but I don’t really get some of the arguments against.

I don’t think their marketing is stating anywhere it’s technically superior to anything else that’s cheaper is it? They may make various claims as to how good the product is but that’s not the same thing. It’s up to the consumer to decide if it a). meets their needs b). is worth paying extra for than another product that also meets their needs.

Who even knows what their profit margins are? They probably aren’t as big as some seem to think. If this was just an importer getting in some cheap Chinese crap and selling them as £375 G0retex jackets I could see the problem but this isn’t that.

nickc – Member

interesting phrase, what does that mean?

From Urban Dictionary:

Scene tax is any extra cost tacked onto the price of a product as a direct result of the product’s reputation or “Scene”, rather than redeeming qualities or actual worth. Most commonly seen in hipster fashion, guitar and bass amplifiers and many other instances, some styles are “revived” and sold at a high price when the exact same product would be worth much less and is potentially much cheaper elsewhere.

ah right, thanks.

scene tax is any extra cost tacked onto the price of a product as a direct result of the product’s reputation or “Scene”, rather than redeeming qualities or actual worth

Given how fashionable Outdoor lifestyle products are at the minute, that would apply to most high street brands like Northface, Rab, Mountain Equipment and so on, they’ve all cashed in massively.

Yes, I know.
🙂

You can find those brands in sales pretty much all the time.

I have an ME sleeping bag and Gore Tex shell, both reduced by 50% because they were ‘last years colours’.

As far as I’m aware, none of those brands charge £375 for a woollen shirt.

Aye, but most of their stuff is made in the developing world, not Yorkshire (insert joke here)

What’s that got to do with scene tax?