Viewing 37 posts - 41 through 77 (of 77 total)
  • Mason Insearchof vs Salsa Cutthroat
  • Premier Icon winston
    Free Member

    I see on bikepacking that Genesis have launched 2021 spec Fugio 30 in 725 tubing. If its  a steel long distance rig you want then this might be worth a look. Nice paint job too.

    Premier Icon jimdubleyou
    Full Member

    Debating whether I should consider a steel hardtail with flat bars and add some options to get a more aero comfortable position for longer gravelly stretches and road.

    I’ve got the Mickey handle bar on my Big Dog. Haven’t taken it on multi day trips yet (curse you covid) but have taken it on some longer rides where I’ve been able to get into a tucked-ish position to stay out of the wind.

    Premier Icon DougD
    Free Member

    The new Fairlight Faran looks pretty ace too.

    They’ve put together a good “lookbook” with all the design info and stuff which could be worth a read

    Fairlight Faran 2.0

    Premier Icon theothernickh
    Free Member

    Interesting options.. thanks.

    Just happened upon this:

    https://www.konaworld.com/sutra_ultd.cfm

    Seems to be taking the Sutra more off road focussed. Dropper Post etc..

    Premier Icon tuboflard
    Full Member

    Just happened upon this:

    https://www.konaworld.com/sutra_ultd.cfm

    Seems to be taking the Sutra more off road focussed. Dropper Post etc..

    They do look good don’t they, basically a drop bar rigid 29er. Think I said in my earlier reply they look a lot like a Kona Unit with drop bars.

    Premier Icon theothernickh
    Free Member

    They do look good don’t they, basically a drop bar rigid 29er. Think I said in my earlier reply they look a lot like a Kona Unit with drop bars.

    Sorry I forgot you already mentioned the ULTD. Might message you if you dont mind? Would love to have a look at your Kona Sutra.

    Nick

    Premier Icon theothernickh
    Free Member

    At the moment I think its between the Kona ULTD and the Mason ISO. I’m been convinced steel is the way to go for loaded bikepacking.

    I think I will end up getting a flat bar MTB as well to be honest.

    Would be a good two bike setup!

    For anyone looking at the Sutra there are some great articles on bikepacking.com

    like this: logans-kona-sutra

    I wish Bikepacking.com would review the Mason ISO. I guess its more difficult to get hold of in the USA.

    Must say I prefer a carbon fork but I can see the benefits of steel for bikepacking.

    Premier Icon tuboflard
    Full Member

    Yep @theothernickh, drop me a DM and sure we can arrange a meet up. What size are you after? I’m on a 52cm.

    Premier Icon jameso
    Full Member

    I’m been convinced steel is the way to go for loaded bikepacking.

    Must say I prefer a carbon fork but I can see the benefits of steel for bikepacking.

    If you see a benefit for the frame, you’d see more benefit for the fork. FWIW I think it makes little difference really in general, design makes a lot more difference than just material. Steel is just tough stuff if you’re travelling with a bike. I simply trust it more than carbon but I’m always told I’m being irrational there.
    The idea of comfort being greater with carbon forks isn’t always true, it depends on how a steel or carbon fork is built. And with 2.3″ tyres and a loaded bike … makes even less difference as does the ~350g or so in weight. Most people over-pack by a kilo or 2 anyway.

    If you’re about to spend that much on a bike I’d not worry about what reviewers say, I’d get a test ride. Even just a 2 or 3 day trip, comfort and feeling at home on the bike counts the most. If you can, strap a 2L coke bottle full of water to the bar and under the saddle and see what happens. A bike that feels good unloaded doesn’t always feel good with a load on and V-V.

    Premier Icon the00
    Free Member

    Can’t comment on either bike, so this question really is a diversion, but this thread already has some knowledgeable folk interested:
    What about a flat bar 29er with tri bars? Super unfashionable I know, but I wonder what this setup might be like.

    Premier Icon theothernickh
    Free Member

    @jameso good points, cheers. I need to get out of carbon roadie mode and into traveller mode! Intend to take the bike for big trips abroad. For example I would love to do something like the kyrgyzstan bikepacking route.

    Actually my favourite bike ever is my Steel Orange C16R, a great fun and forgiving ride.

    Premier Icon theothernickh
    Free Member

    @the00 was looking at that set up too. I do see a lot of bikepackers with a tri bar setup.
    I used to ride tri bars when I did triathlon a few years back. As I said before I think I will end up getting a flat bar MTB as well.

    I guess I just feel a lot more confident riding drops nowadays and feel I make good progress on them on the road/gravel rides that I do on my Cervelo C3. I (probably wrongly) associate flat bars with being a slower and having a fixed hand position.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Free Member

    That Kona looks great.

    So here’s a question. Assuming I can fit drops onto my El Mariachi without extending the reach too much – how to do it? If I want drop levers I need Shimano 105 really, don’t I? Can I fit them onto MTB calipers?

    EDIT but wait, I’d have to use a road cassette then wouldn’t I? Grr.

    Premier Icon theothernickh
    Free Member

    @molgrips I’m not overly technical but yes, most drop bar bikes use road/gravel levers as far as I know. Its a comfort thing too, the hands rest naturally on the hoods.

    Premier Icon jameso
    Full Member

    What about a flat bar 29er with tri bars? Super unfashionable I know, but I wonder what this setup might be like.

    Tour Divide’s been won on that set up (as it has on a drop-bar 29er). I’ve use my Jones loops as a support for a tuck on the few occasions it gives any aero advantage. Clip-ons are mainly used to give your hands a break over long rides rather than the aero benefits.

    I guess I just feel a lot more confident riding drops nowadays and feel I make good progress on them on the road/gravel rides that I do on my Cervelo C3.

    I love how a good road bike feels but imho/ime long days on a loaded bike off-road are pretty much the polar opposite in terms of bike fit, set up, handling, everything really. Efficiency of drop bars on a fast day ride pales into insignificance after a week on the bike when whatever bar you have, you’ll wish it was an inch or 2 higher or the grip area was more supportive, etc.
    What gets difficult is when you want a bike that is good for a mixed-terrain day ride as well as that week+ ride. That’s where I think you’re on the right lines of an ISO, the Kona, a Cutthroat etc as none are ‘day ride MTB’ design ie for technical terrain primarily. They’re all more agile bikes that will handle a load better and the bars aspect will just come down to comfort and preferences.

    Premier Icon theothernickh
    Free Member

    @jameso thanks so much for all the useful info. I can tell you speak from experience!

    Premier Icon jameso
    Full Member

    ^ sort of, but still ride my gravel bike loaded up in places where I end up silently cursing it, and enjoy it..

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Free Member

    What about a flat bar 29er with tri bars? Super unfashionable I know, but I wonder what this setup might be like.

    Clip on tri bars on my road bike really wreck the steering as even though they are carbon the weight is very noticeable. They are good in races like the Tour Divide because you are smashing out endless miles on smooth roads often into headwinds, where the tuck is enough of an advantage to be worth the down sides. And they are races.

    There’s also the inboard bar-ends idea which is currently fashionable in the right circles. I intend to try it out as I think it’d be great on my flat bars. But that’s perhaps a quirk of my particular bike – I’m borderline medium/large, but my bike is large meaning the TT is relatively long for me and consequently the bar ends would be in the right place for a decent tuck. This is probably a coincidence and may not be the case for all riders/bikes.

    Oh and then there’s loop bars, where you can ride on the front of the loop if you want a tuck. The rear of the loop may provide support for your forearms too. Does anyone mount those arm cups on loop bars?

    Premier Icon jameso
    Full Member

    the inboard bar-ends idea which is currently fashionable in the right circles

    Simple ergonomics, it makes sense. H-bars have a sort of cross bar join at the same point and give a similar feel. Inboard bar ends have been used for ages, had them on my MTB for touring in 2003 or 2004 and I think I borrowed the idea from a 24hr racer’s bike I saw a while before that.

    Does anyone mount those arm cups on loop bars?

    Sort of – used foam forearm rests on my Loops for a race. The small lumps on the fwd section helped position my forearms or act as a grip point.
    Thing with aero bars on a long distance bike is that a comfortable LD position becomes quite inefficient to pedal in when you lean fwd onto the aero bar position. I tried full clip-ons and there was no real gain, less drag yes but also lower power output. I adjusted the bike’s fit for a more XC fit (the Jones is fairly short, actually suits aero bar fit better than most MTBs) and it was better for pedalling in the aero tuck but personally I couldn’t hack the lower bar and more fwd saddle position for real multi-day stuff.

    edit – spot the bike computer and cues/map holder, that’s how long ago it was
    edit 2 – “They are good in races like the Tour Divide because you are smashing out endless miles on smooth roads often into headwinds” – endless and headwinds yes, ‘smashing out’ no, smooth roads no : )

    Premier Icon supernova
    Full Member

    My Kona Sutra Ltd is the most fun bike I’ve ever had. Great for razzing around lanes, fire roads and non-mountain singletrack. Get some big 2.1 Nanos on there and you can go almost anywhere!

    Premier Icon DavidB
    Full Member

    They are good in races like the Tour Divide because you are smashing out endless miles on smooth roads often into headwinds, where the tuck is enough of an advantage to be worth the down sides

    I can’t remember these endless miles on smooth roads from when I raced it. Less than 10% I believe. The key benefit for me was positional change and the ability to rest on the bars. You take a beating on the rough tracks and the aero position takes weight off the wrists.

    Premier Icon tuboflard
    Full Member

    If it helps you make your mind up @theothernickh, I’ve swapped the 50c WTB Ventures out for some 29 x 2.25” WTB Nine Lines this evening. Still great clearance and will take it out for a monster cross test tomorrow evening. Looks great though.

    Premier Icon theothernickh
    Free Member

    If it helps you make your mind up @theothernickh, I’ve swapped the 50c WTB Ventures out for some 29 x 2.25” WTB Nine Lines this evening. Still great clearance and will take it out for a monster cross test tomorrow evening. Looks great though.

    Cheers. They look handy!

    Its going to be the a Sutra ultd or the Mason ISO. Been looking at the geometry in more detail. Either would do the job! Mason is set up with a shorter reach and higher stack. Ideally wanted to sell my existing bike before pressing the button. Not sure how long I can wait though!

    Maybe join you for a ride up Hathersage way when I decide!?

    Nick

    Premier Icon tuboflard
    Full Member

    Maybe join you for a ride up Hathersage way when I decide!?

    Yep, definitely on for that, either of those bikes will do you really well I reckon. Just give us a shout.

    Premier Icon monkeysfeet
    Free Member

    Evening guys. Interesting thread this. I had been looking for a 27.5/29er gravel bike. Looked at a few mentioned on here, NS Rag, Mason Bokeh, and numerous others. The bike that ticked most boxes was the Genesis Vagabond but they were sold out.
    Anyway I have ordered a Sonder Broken road Ti monster cross. Broken road frame, Rigid Kinesis Forks, Ritchey riser drop bars, DT Swiss 29er wheels. Not picked it up yet, but if I don’t get on with the drops my thinking is I can run it as a rigid 29er MTB with a flat bar.

    Premier Icon tuboflard
    Full Member

    That sounds like a great build @monkeysfeet, never tried a Ti frame but can expect them to be lovely and compliant. Be interesting to hear how you get on with it when it’s ready.

    Premier Icon monkeysfeet
    Free Member

    Cheers. Alpkit have been great all through with answering questions about the build. (The Alpkit Ambleside store manager has a similar build but I didn’t manage to get hold of him)
    I had a Cannondale Slate 105 a few years ago which I found really harsh. I also have lower back problems, so I’m hoping the larger tyres, ti frame and a bit more upright position from the riser drops will give me a nice riding position.

    Premier Icon monkeysfeet
    Free Member

    Also worth mentioning is the Ti 650b adventure bike from Ribble Bikes. Great value but it just looks really ugly. (Apologies to any owners)

    Premier Icon theothernickh
    Free Member

    @monkeysfeet Interesting build and a very appealing bike. I didn’t know people ran them with drops. Is the geometry quite interchangeable between drops and flat bars on the Broken Road?

    I was in the Alpkit a few months ago talking with Pete Pete McNeil (mostly about the Sonder Frontier). The setup he ran in the Silk Road Mountain Race with the Broken Road is a good option with flat bars I think.

    Video here if anyone hasn’t already seen it:

    Premier Icon theothernickh
    Free Member

    Also there is a good article here on the drop bars vs flat bars

    https://www.theproscloset.com/blogs/news/choosing-a-gravel-bike-vs-a-hardtail-29er-mtb

    Premier Icon monkeysfeet
    Free Member

    I spoke at length with Tom at Alpkit about the geo and my needs/type of riding etc. Tom agreed running drops would not be an issue. We even spoke about a custom option but I decided to keep the frame stock so if I wanted to I could use the frame as an MTB build. My MTBs are all hardtails and steel so looking forward to riding a Ti bike.
    I live in the lakes so the bike will probably get some nights out bike packing too. The biggest challenge will be tyres, something ok on tarmack and gravel.

    Premier Icon monkeysfeet
    Free Member

    These are the bars I have gone with https://eu.ritcheylogic.com/eu_en/comp-ergomax-handlebar
    I’m hoping for a bit more of an upright position.

    Premier Icon Clink
    Full Member

    BR has reasonably modern reach and long ett so I would have thought you would struggle to make it work with drops?

    Premier Icon monkeysfeet
    Free Member

    Yeah, I compared it to the Cannondale Slate which has an ett of 570mm (large) (Sonder is 616 medium) so I am going to try the shortest stem I can get away with to see how that goes.

    Premier Icon tuboflard
    Full Member

    The Sutra LTD is even more fun with 2.25’s on it and almost as quick on the road too (but not quite). Took it down a fairly rowdy local trail and didn’t die so more that capable on pretty much anything you’d want to throw at it so long as you watch your speed. The Sutra ULTD would be a great bike if this is anything to go by.

    Premier Icon supernova
    Full Member

    Which 2,25’s did you fit on your Sutra? I’m looking for something a bit more knobbly now autumn has arrived.

    Premier Icon tuboflard
    Full Member

    Which 2,25’s did you fit on your Sutra? I’m looking for something a bit more knobbly now autumn has arrived.

    WTB Nine Lines. Still pretty decent clearance though not sure you’d get something more knobbly on there and mudguards. Definitely get 2.1’s on there with room to spare though.

    Edit. Reckon these would still fit fine.

    https://www.wiggle.co.uk/wtb-ranger-225-tcs-light-fast-rolling-tyre-tan-side

Viewing 37 posts - 41 through 77 (of 77 total)

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